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Conversation | 05/20/2008 10:29 am

At a Table in So-Called Liberal NYC, Woman Announces: I’ll Never Vote for a Black Man for President

© AP

Editor’s Note: Featuring Kathleen Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center, a professor of communications and the former dean of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania.

LESLEY: So I’m so glad that you all could join us today. Liz Smith, obviously we know who Liz Smith is; Kathleen Hall Jamieson, Director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania and an expert on campaigns; and we are blessed with Candice Bergen. Let’s get started right off the bat, discussing the topic du jour, the campaign. Actually it’s the topic of every day. But let’s talk about the three “isms”: racism, sexism and ageism, starting with racism. Here’s my question: It has for long, I think, been that racism is a hidden issue. If voters made decisions because of race, they often lied to pollsters. It was kind of shameful. Do any of you get the feeling that that is changing, ever since the Rev. Wright issue exploded? Do you have a feeling that people are more willing to openly admit that they won’t vote for Obama because of race? Kathleen, are you picking up any of this?

Click here to read Part Two: Percentage of Voters Say They Would Never Vote for a Woman, Regardless of Qualifications.

Click here to read Part Three: Who Says Older Ages Equal Serious Health Problems?

KATHLEEN: Well, we’re seeing it in surveys. We’re seeing a percent of the population that doesn’t say it wouldn’t, but does say it would be less likely, or that race is a factor in vote. And then when you parse the question by saying, “Is race increasing or decreasing the likelihood of your vote?” what you actually see is, it’s increasing likelihood for some and decreasing likelihood for others. And then you have to ask, “And then what do those two things mean and how do we parse all that back into our history?”

LESLEY: But are people more willing to admit this than ever before? Or is it just a feeling one gets?

KATHLEEN: I don’t think we know whether they’re more willing because, in the past, we haven’t framed the question that way. And so I think it’s a great question and I don’t think we have an answer.

LIZ: If you look at The New York Times from Monday, it looks like America has racism pretty much under control when Obama can draw 75,000 people to a rally in Oregon. That’s just an incredible picture. The enthusiasm for that is incredible. Of course … that means nothing.

LESLEY: Liz, you and I went to a very fancy-schmancy dinner party in New York the other night. And a woman at our table, in so-called liberal New York City, announced to our table that she would never vote for a black to be in the White House. That’s what she said. And everybody else at the table was shocked and started to yell at her. But she felt perfectly comfortable saying that.

LIZ: Well, I was just glad nobody overturned the table …

LESLEY: Well, they wanted to. But the point is … I hear it more. That’s why I’m asking this question.

KATHLEEN: Lesley, when you hear it, do people then give you some reason? It seems to me that saying that should be unacceptable unless one has a reason. And I can’t think of a reason that could legitimize that conclusion.

LESLEY: What I was wondering is, does that mean that the Rev. Wright issue changed peoples’ attitudes in a way that it’s no longer as shameful for some people?

LIZ: Yeah, that’s a very good point, Lesley. I think that’s true. But, honestly, this woman the other night that you refer to at our dinner, that is the first overt thing I’ve ever had anybody say in my presence in – honestly — in years. So maybe today people are more politically correct; but privately they may be something else.

182 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

beth willis
Thank you for sharing your experience, eleanor. Many would not have been as astute as you were as a child, observations which have served you well. “Everybody don’t like something sometime.” And, yes, that is unfortunate. Again, thank you for widening our vision, opening our eyes. Peace and grace
By beth willis on 05/20/2008 7:18 pm
eleanor roche
beth— Thank you, I am lucky to have two unbelievable parents. They met in graduate school and both have doctorate degrees. They never saw each other as two people of two different races, they just saw each other as equals in love. My father is very quiet/masculine and my mother is very strong/opinionated and the combination was very interesting to watch. They just love and respect each other immensely and never gave a thought to the fact that they were different “races”. I think that is why it never occurred to any of us who we would marry, and I never gave a thought to race, they couldn’t have cared less what “race” I married or what race my children would be. Because we didn’t live around either of their families, we were all incredibly close and my parents were very protective. They didn’t say it then, but they were very worried about racism. Mostly, they say now, they were pleasantly surprised! Peace and grace to you as well
By eleanor roche on 05/20/2008 8:06 pm
immoddesta godessa
I agree with Beth ,Eleanor. Thank you for your impressions from your youth. This site is awfullly helpful in the scope of information and opinion expressed! I just love that anyone can tel their story and relate it to the thread that is our society! I cannot always agree but I have to say I am always appreciative of the beliefs and opinions relayed here!
By immoddesta godessa on 05/20/2008 7:43 pm
Elizabeth Bennett
Eleanor, thank you for those insights. Racism is not unique to any particular race. Sometimes it can even be internalized, where someone feels low self esteem because he or she is used to being treated badly. And I have certainly seen how someone who has been discriminated against by some people of a certain race can come to regard all people of that race negatively. Sometimes I think that racism is a learning process we are all going through, a process of learning we are all human, all related to one another. Or as you say, “they just don’t understand.”
By Elizabeth Bennett on 05/21/2008 12:43 am
Cat Baker
DeAnne..not against your words, againts whole consepct of what you are buying into. Does everyone go on the idea that our lYing government is better then none. The forfathers who wrote this had good ideas but they were only writhing about “their own”. These are the same men who had slaves and sent smallpox bankets to my ansesters. People need to get thier heads out of their belt area and know that createated eaqual is in the Spirital aspect,not the physical. I am so tired of all the people with “money” creating problems of survival with my level of living. Again, this is not againt you, You just gave me an opening. “To hold these truths to be self evident” ok , fine, wish it was that way..its not. Its what the powers that be want it to be…God help us all. I have had grandfathers, fathers, husband and sons who have fought for this, I know what I speak.
By Cat Baker on 05/20/2008 11:56 pm
cat  lord
Cat Baker, I totally understand what you are saying! The next thing “these” people might tell you is that your spelling is incorrect,but they will rather ignore you. Nice meeting you and more power to you!
By cat lord on 05/21/2008 10:59 am
kermie b
I love that Obama goes into crowds wearing no tie and his shirtsleeves rolled up—and I do not believe it is fake, hey! I’m a working man (person) just like you! I have been a supporter since the first interview I saw of him. He makes sense. If McCain makes it because no one will vote for Obama or a woman, this country is in deep trouble.
By kermie b on 05/20/2008 12:14 pm
Bella Mia
I’d vote for a black conservative in a nanosecond, but not a black Marxist whose plan is to raise my taxes, and build a big brother/ nanny state while pulling the rug out from under our national security. I’d vote for a conservative Hispanic as well -and in Florida, it looks like Hispanics are trending conservative: This from the Wall Street Journal: “When Florida passed a law in 2001 creating the Corporate Tax Credit Scholarship Program for underprivileged students, all but one Democrat in the state legislature voted against it. Earlier this month, lawmakers extended the program – this time with the help of a full third of Democrats in the Legislature, including 13 of 25 members of the state’s black caucus and every member of the Hispanic caucus. What changed? Our guess is that low-income parents in Florida have gotten a taste of the same school choice privileges that middle- and upper-income families have always enjoyed. And they’ve found they like this new educational freedom. Under the scholarship program, which is means-tested, companies get a 100% tax credit for donations to state-approved nonprofits that provide private-school vouchers for low-income families. The program already serves some 20,000 students. The expansion will allow it to assist an additional 6,000. It’s no surprise that poor families would embrace educational options, given that their government-assigned schools are clearly failing their children. The high school graduation rate for black students in Florida is 45% overall, 38% for black males. The 52% graduation rate for Hispanics is also nothing to brag about.” 70% of the participants are black or Hispanic. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121115787543802417.html?mod=loomia&loomi…
By Bella Mia on 05/20/2008 12:15 pm
Mary Lou From Maine
I trust that you may someday have an experience that opens your heart and mind so that you will cease with this incessant labeling of people who differ from you idealogically. “Marxist!” Come on, there’s nothing pretty about your tendencies to inflamitory hyperbole. Bella, indeed!
By Mary Lou From Maine on 05/20/2008 12:28 pm
Bella Mia
I’ve studied Marxism as part of my college degree - his ideas and solutions are Marxist. http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/another_obama_marxist.html Marxists worldwide are singing Obama’s praises: “Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign. And they seem to feel the warmth. President Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua, who led a revolution there in 1979, says Barack Obama’s presidential bid is a “revolutionary” phenomenon, and Americans are “laying the foundations for a revolutionary change.” A captured computer revealed that an unknown person chatted with Marxist FARC guerillas on Obama’s behalf (they believed), stating he would be the next President and US policy towards Columbia would change. Frank Marshall Davis, a dear Obama friend and mentor was as a member of the Communist Party USA. Barack Obama just seems to attract Marxists.” And: “Sam Graham-Felsen, hired to run Obama’s blog, writes about Noam Chomsky in a Marxist publications that openly calls for revolution against the American government. This is a Presidential candidate’s choice to run the on-line portion of his campaign. That speaks volumes of his character and worldview. Contradicting what he says in public, Obama is surrounding himself with poeple who never seem to learn that their absurd ideologies end in misery and ruin. “
By Bella Mia on 05/20/2008 12:36 pm
Deni G
Oh the American Thinker, that has given us such a variety of choices: first Obama is a muslim terrorist, then he is a christian radical, now he’s a godless communist? The American Thinker: hotbed of Global Warming denalism. The American Thinker who defended Ann Coulters’ attacks on the 9-11 widows: “By responding to Ann’s attacks, the widows prove Ann didn’t attack them in the first place … and don’t you just hate leftist tools anyway? ”
By Deni G on 05/20/2008 2:07 pm
Mugsy Peabody
The P.T. Barnum School of Social Theory, I presume, Deni?
By Mugsy Peabody on 05/20/2008 6:40 pm
Lady Gator
Mary Lou….Bella is on this web to give her opinion. It might not agree with yours —-and, what if she is right? There is nothing pretty about your tendency to inflamitory remarks to people who are just expressing their opinion. Good Lord, haven’t we had enough of this? There was another site on here that was ENOUGH (pardon me for shouting) crap spouted about Obama to last all of us for a lifetime. And, if I had not already made up my mind as to my choice — they certainly would not have influenced me to vote for Mr. Obama. I really think we should respect each other’s opinion even if it makes us mad. Just hang around and wait — I’m sure the “darlings” Renata and Princess/whatever will make an appearence before long. In the meantime — be cool — be nice — respect the ideas of others.
By Lady Gator on 05/20/2008 1:02 pm
eleanor roche
Lady Gator— I just think you are awesome. That is all I want to say, thank you for having my back when I needed it!! I realize this has nothing to do with anything but, Lov ya!
By eleanor roche on 05/20/2008 8:23 pm
Mary Lou From Maine
Perhaps, you should re-read what I said. Surely, you must have misunderstood my good wishes for your friend …
By Mary Lou From Maine on 05/21/2008 1:36 pm