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Conversation | 05/20/2008 10:29 am

At a Table in So-Called Liberal NYC, Woman Announces: I’ll Never Vote for a Black Man for President

© AP

Editor’s Note: Featuring Kathleen Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center, a professor of communications and the former dean of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania.

LESLEY: So I’m so glad that you all could join us today. Liz Smith, obviously we know who Liz Smith is; Kathleen Hall Jamieson, Director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania and an expert on campaigns; and we are blessed with Candice Bergen. Let’s get started right off the bat, discussing the topic du jour, the campaign. Actually it’s the topic of every day. But let’s talk about the three “isms”: racism, sexism and ageism, starting with racism. Here’s my question: It has for long, I think, been that racism is a hidden issue. If voters made decisions because of race, they often lied to pollsters. It was kind of shameful. Do any of you get the feeling that that is changing, ever since the Rev. Wright issue exploded? Do you have a feeling that people are more willing to openly admit that they won’t vote for Obama because of race? Kathleen, are you picking up any of this?

Click here to read Part Two: Percentage of Voters Say They Would Never Vote for a Woman, Regardless of Qualifications.

Click here to read Part Three: Who Says Older Ages Equal Serious Health Problems?

KATHLEEN: Well, we’re seeing it in surveys. We’re seeing a percent of the population that doesn’t say it wouldn’t, but does say it would be less likely, or that race is a factor in vote. And then when you parse the question by saying, “Is race increasing or decreasing the likelihood of your vote?” what you actually see is, it’s increasing likelihood for some and decreasing likelihood for others. And then you have to ask, “And then what do those two things mean and how do we parse all that back into our history?”

LESLEY: But are people more willing to admit this than ever before? Or is it just a feeling one gets?

KATHLEEN: I don’t think we know whether they’re more willing because, in the past, we haven’t framed the question that way. And so I think it’s a great question and I don’t think we have an answer.

LIZ: If you look at The New York Times from Monday, it looks like America has racism pretty much under control when Obama can draw 75,000 people to a rally in Oregon. That’s just an incredible picture. The enthusiasm for that is incredible. Of course … that means nothing.

LESLEY: Liz, you and I went to a very fancy-schmancy dinner party in New York the other night. And a woman at our table, in so-called liberal New York City, announced to our table that she would never vote for a black to be in the White House. That’s what she said. And everybody else at the table was shocked and started to yell at her. But she felt perfectly comfortable saying that.

LIZ: Well, I was just glad nobody overturned the table …

LESLEY: Well, they wanted to. But the point is … I hear it more. That’s why I’m asking this question.

KATHLEEN: Lesley, when you hear it, do people then give you some reason? It seems to me that saying that should be unacceptable unless one has a reason. And I can’t think of a reason that could legitimize that conclusion.

LESLEY: What I was wondering is, does that mean that the Rev. Wright issue changed peoples’ attitudes in a way that it’s no longer as shameful for some people?

LIZ: Yeah, that’s a very good point, Lesley. I think that’s true. But, honestly, this woman the other night that you refer to at our dinner, that is the first overt thing I’ve ever had anybody say in my presence in – honestly — in years. So maybe today people are more politically correct; but privately they may be something else.

182 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

eleanor roche
Sorry Mary Lou, it has nothing to do with inflammatory hyperbole—it’s about facts. Obama makes no apologies for his Marxist leanings. No doubt about it Bella Mia, all one has to do is listen to Obama to know that he plans to enact a Socialist agenda as President. Bella Mia outlined some of his positions. He is definitely for the redistribution of wealth by the government and wants the “State” to run our lives—that’s a Socialist ideology pure and simple.
By eleanor roche on 05/20/2008 3:08 pm
Mugsy Peabody
Sweden is a Socialist Nation, Eleanor, and has just about the highest standard of living of any country in the world. What exactly is the problem with that? Would you rather have a fascist nation run by people who publicly say they do not care that 80% of the nation is against this illegal and unjust war? I don’t get your point? Like the Pennsylvania Governor asked about the Clinton years, “What was it you didn’t like…. the peace, or the prosperity?” Sens. Obama and Clinton both are far better choices I would think for someone whose dad is Chinese than someone who publicly stated “I suppose I will always hate Gooks.” Do you really trust McCain to be able to differentiate between your dad and the “Gooks” he hates? I think that statement in and of itself in a civilized nation would have disqualified him from holding high public office. There needs to be some perspective on how far we have fallen in the “neo-con” years. Many young people don’t realize what’s happening because they don’t remember anything that wasn’t neo-con. Sad, but true.
By Mugsy Peabody on 05/20/2008 6:47 pm
eleanor roche
Well Mugsy, the “peace and prosperity” of the Clinton era was all smoke and mirrors. Apparently, there was no “peace”, since Bin Laden was well underway with his evil plan and as to “prosperity”, as I said before, PROJECTED budget surplus and lest we forget, the inflated NASDAQ and the tech bubble. As to the “Gook” remark, yes, I find it somewhat offensive. But, I am able to look at the context of his remarks. My “white” uncle who was in Vietnam—2 tours of duty and a purple heart—actually called my father a “Gook/slant eye/you name it offensive asian slang”. My mother, and father, though offended, considered the circumstances and forgave him.
By eleanor roche on 05/20/2008 7:22 pm
Patricia Burstein
Eleanor, per usual, you are on the mark in your analysis and as always you give facts, the underpinning of any well-conceived argument. I’m still stewing about the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the U.S.S. Cole and Obama bin Laden busy orchestrating 9/11, all on Clinton’s watch. What did Clinton do about all of the above? Very little. I also agree with you about the economic bubbles (Greenspan’s famous “irrational exuberance”) that ensued during and after the Clinton years although, in fairness, the natural course of economic cycles is a more likely reason. Another example of Clinton’s failures: He was late to act on ethnic cleansing in Bosnia. It was then British PM Tony Blair who called the world to action. Ditto for the the Ireland Peace Agreement, a political legacy that belongs to Blair. I voted twice for Bill Clinton, and I was so disappointed by his public and private actions—or lack of on terrorism. Of course, by comparison with the Bush years and his Iraq War, Clinton looks like the avatar of peace and prosperity.
By Patricia Burstein on 05/21/2008 6:29 pm
Frannie Em
Patricia Don’t forget about Rwanda
By Frannie Em on 05/23/2008 5:57 pm
Deni G
There is a good more to those voucher programs than meets the eye: From~ http://educationpolicyblog.blogspot.com/ “When state legislators in Florida offer children and parents either a rundown, under-funded, segregated testing factory or a tax-supported corporate voucher to a Christian school, the school choice has already been made—and it hasn’t been made by the parent or the child.” And Florida Republicans are doing a bang job caring for the poor and for Education? : Reeling from unprecedented cuts to the state’s K-12 funding in the just-concluded legislative session, Florida school districts are scrambling to slash an average of $131 per student by eliminating teacher aides, consolidating bus routes, and canceling before- and after-school programs. From: http://www.edweek.org Florida lawmakers on Wednesday gave swift approval to $512 million worth of cuts to the current year’s budget, despite complaints from Democrats that the GOP-controlled Legislature did not consider tapping into reserves as a way to ease the impact of the trims. But the more serious cutting is yet to come, with new estimates showing that Florida lawmakers may have to slash at least $3 billion to balance the state budget that covers spending for the year beginning July 1. State economists began drawing up estimates Wednesday for how much the state could save if it eliminated the Medically Needy program or cut services for some pregnant women. Both House Speaker Marco Rubio and Senate President Ken Pruitt have ruled out tax increases. But Pruitt said Wednesday that tuition increases and fee hikes would be appropriate. The latest round of cuts slashes spending on public schools, juvenile justice programs and healthcare for the next four months. Democrats voted overwhelmingly against the budget cuts and chided Republicans for refusing to consider tapping the state’s roughly $4.5 billion in reserves.
By Deni G on 05/20/2008 1:51 pm
Anistasia Beaverhousen
Bella, I am white and came from a lower class family. My schooling was so horrible I barely learned to spell. You will see it in my writing here. I now have a masters from a really bad state college. I have always known that if i did not marry a man who made a couple million, my children would have the same struggle and ground down life I have had. I decided I can not afford children, would not marry for money, and am aware the enviornment is not a concern for most people. So, I am childless and 45. I see more and more people who are not willing to have children. It seems only the poorest and most uneducated make this mistake and want others to pay for it. I am not saying it’s right to stop having children, I’m just saying it is reality in America. I do not think we have found an answer to this problem because we are not willing to fund education. If people were really educated, as in science and evolution; far more people would stop having children. Then we would have no work force. Keep them ignorent and breeding so the rich can use them as a work force, let them state thier limited opinions, based on a limited education, so they can feel free and lucky. I simply could not put a child into a public school. To many of these parents are highly dysfuntional, as are thier children, and I had my share. My friends who went to Hebrew school/ private schools are appaled at the treatment i recieved and complete lack of education. I feel it every day.
By Anistasia Beaverhousen on 05/20/2008 3:28 pm
Mugsy Peabody
Anistasia, I would posit that you seriously undervalue the quality of your education.
By Mugsy Peabody on 05/20/2008 6:55 pm
Cat Baker
why do football players make 1million and teachers of ALL children make 30 thousand. That should be the bitchin point. It should be available to all children in this country.
By Cat Baker on 05/21/2008 12:30 am
gulliver fourmyle
the point of teachers i well understand—-it’s hard to imagine a more important social need. years of ‘talk-therapy’ showed me that it’s the early deals that mold our adult selves—-while schooled as an AEC engineer’s kid—-the treatment was superb—-but then moving to an Aiken 4th grade was ‘horror’—-i had a teacher ask me of my breakfast—-‘oatmeal’ i told—-this ‘teacher’ actually said, ‘You eat that mush?’ it took decades for me to love oatmeal again—- good teachers taught me much—-bad teachers cost me much—-so what to do?
By gulliver fourmyle on 12/28/2008 12:18 am
Mary Lou From Maine
Ignorance knows no geography. So what if she was in NYC? Bigots live everywhere. Narrow-mindedness exists in cities and in rural pastoral settings. Hopefully, this woman will have an experience one day that will open her and raise her consciousness. I trust there is hope of that for all bigots …
By Mary Lou From Maine on 05/20/2008 12:21 pm
Lady Gator
Mary Lou — even HRTT (High Rise Trailer Trash) from New York!
By Lady Gator on 05/20/2008 1:22 pm
Brooklyn Gal
I love it! HRTT!! Never heard that one before. I’m just shocked that no one at the table asked her to explain why she felt that way. After all, both Lesly and Liz are journalists and may have missed an opportunity to hear from a primary souce instead of poll results. Also, I am such a fan of Kathleen Hall Jamieson. She is usually on with Bill Moyers. I just love the way she explains things. She has a way of drawing you in and you never seem to find any bias when she talks about the candidates.
By Brooklyn Gal on 05/20/2008 3:00 pm
Anistasia Beaverhousen
Hey Mary, I have no issue with race. I have no problem with Barack being president. I really loved John Edwards. I do wish wierd women at tables were not taken seriosly. That’s a crazy statement. I voted for Hilary because she is the best person for the job.
By Anistasia Beaverhousen on 05/20/2008 3:34 pm
gulliver fourmyle
why i’m a ‘Space-Cowboy’—-‘disorder’ ‘goes with the place’—-if you’re in space, running out of air—who would care on the color of the hand delivering such—-
By gulliver fourmyle on 12/28/2008 12:25 am