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Conversation | 05/20/2008 10:29 am

At a Table in So-Called Liberal NYC, Woman Announces: I’ll Never Vote for a Black Man for President

© AP

Editor’s Note: Featuring Kathleen Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center, a professor of communications and the former dean of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania.

LESLEY: So I’m so glad that you all could join us today. Liz Smith, obviously we know who Liz Smith is; Kathleen Hall Jamieson, Director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania and an expert on campaigns; and we are blessed with Candice Bergen. Let’s get started right off the bat, discussing the topic du jour, the campaign. Actually it’s the topic of every day. But let’s talk about the three “isms”: racism, sexism and ageism, starting with racism. Here’s my question: It has for long, I think, been that racism is a hidden issue. If voters made decisions because of race, they often lied to pollsters. It was kind of shameful. Do any of you get the feeling that that is changing, ever since the Rev. Wright issue exploded? Do you have a feeling that people are more willing to openly admit that they won’t vote for Obama because of race? Kathleen, are you picking up any of this?

Click here to read Part Two: Percentage of Voters Say They Would Never Vote for a Woman, Regardless of Qualifications.

Click here to read Part Three: Who Says Older Ages Equal Serious Health Problems?

KATHLEEN: Well, we’re seeing it in surveys. We’re seeing a percent of the population that doesn’t say it wouldn’t, but does say it would be less likely, or that race is a factor in vote. And then when you parse the question by saying, “Is race increasing or decreasing the likelihood of your vote?” what you actually see is, it’s increasing likelihood for some and decreasing likelihood for others. And then you have to ask, “And then what do those two things mean and how do we parse all that back into our history?”

LESLEY: But are people more willing to admit this than ever before? Or is it just a feeling one gets?

KATHLEEN: I don’t think we know whether they’re more willing because, in the past, we haven’t framed the question that way. And so I think it’s a great question and I don’t think we have an answer.

LIZ: If you look at The New York Times from Monday, it looks like America has racism pretty much under control when Obama can draw 75,000 people to a rally in Oregon. That’s just an incredible picture. The enthusiasm for that is incredible. Of course … that means nothing.

LESLEY: Liz, you and I went to a very fancy-schmancy dinner party in New York the other night. And a woman at our table, in so-called liberal New York City, announced to our table that she would never vote for a black to be in the White House. That’s what she said. And everybody else at the table was shocked and started to yell at her. But she felt perfectly comfortable saying that.

LIZ: Well, I was just glad nobody overturned the table …

LESLEY: Well, they wanted to. But the point is … I hear it more. That’s why I’m asking this question.

KATHLEEN: Lesley, when you hear it, do people then give you some reason? It seems to me that saying that should be unacceptable unless one has a reason. And I can’t think of a reason that could legitimize that conclusion.

LESLEY: What I was wondering is, does that mean that the Rev. Wright issue changed peoples’ attitudes in a way that it’s no longer as shameful for some people?

LIZ: Yeah, that’s a very good point, Lesley. I think that’s true. But, honestly, this woman the other night that you refer to at our dinner, that is the first overt thing I’ve ever had anybody say in my presence in – honestly — in years. So maybe today people are more politically correct; but privately they may be something else.

182 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Frau Quink
You gave me a good laugh: Since when is ‘Polish’ a race??
By Frau Quink on 05/20/2008 2:10 pm
Elizabeth Bennett
The only true race is human. All the ways we have come up with to divide up humanity into this race or that is just a cultural construct, basically an ethnic group. On that ground, Polish is as entitled to be a race as is Caucasian or Southeast Islander. The genetic research on this is pretty interesting. There really is no genetic basis for what we think of as race. Once you realize it is cultural, not genetic, it makes you go Aha! I had a friend in law school who looked like she was Danish or Swedish American, but she was one fourth Cherokee. I have another friend who is Jewish and refuses to check “white” on the ethnic composition form, as she sees herself as Jewish and her ancestors were being slaughtered by people who were “white.” Anyway, the last census form noted that race and ethnicity were overlapping concepts with national origin a way of stating race. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_Cen…
By Elizabeth Bennett on 05/20/2008 7:14 pm
T S
Elizabeth, I admire you. I look for the lavender flowers in the corner of a post because I know it’s likely that I will resonate with what it has to say. You are eloquent and seem to share from your mind and heart. Thank you for that.
By T S on 05/20/2008 9:34 pm
DeAnne from Big D
I aggree with Elizabeth. My ancestors were the first Polish settler in the US. They were discriminated against to the point that the US Army had to be brought in… They were near starvation in South Texas until a group of black slaves showed them how to plant corn, etc. I do feel that I am in a race of people which has it’s own customs and beliefs handed down from generation. Plus - haven’t you ever heard a Polish Joke or seen an old rerun of All in the Family? :) Isn’t that tagging a specific race with a stereotype? :)
By DeAnne from Big D on 05/20/2008 7:49 pm
iris odonata
We do stand on the brink. The woman in NYC is an example of fear and resistance, the great malaise of being human. “The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn.” -Alvin Toffler
By iris odonata on 05/20/2008 12:57 pm
T S
So insightful, Iris! Way to say it, Alvin Toffler! Tis true, tis true.
By T S on 05/20/2008 1:12 pm
georgia fatwood
Dear Iris, Thank you for this stunning,profound quote…I have a world of notes and quotes on crumbs of paper and rarely get the “footnotes” right..I think I’ll have the Toffler tattooed on my arm…I was thinking about how it would read if it said “will not” learn instead of cannot learn… “Someone said”…help out…who? …defined evil as “militant ignorance…..I’m remembering a high school graduation night when my neighbor’s kid, fueled by Jack Daniels teetered on the brink of his back stoop and boasted to us, “I’ve done graduated and I ain’t gonna have to learn another damn thing.” On the brink, indeed. More like “dancing on the lip of the volcano”…and it’s not only those without “book smarts” who are militantly ignorant. In the What I Hate About Hillary section there is that wonderful observation rivermm 5/9/2008 about the capacity for containing opposites..Thanks again and I’m just mighty glad to know ya’ll are out there.
By georgia fatwood on 05/20/2008 1:28 pm
iris odonata
Yes Georgia: There is most definitely a difference bewtween “cannot” and “will not.” Toffler also wrote about the “nowhere” of cyberspace. Now_here is the new “there” to be from. I second your gladness. Injoy
By iris odonata on 05/20/2008 1:41 pm
Mary Lou From Maine
Well put, Iris. This quotation goes into my “quotes” notebook. thanks …
By Mary Lou From Maine on 05/21/2008 1:19 pm
Frannie Em
Iris, my teacher used to tell me that you used the mind to educate the mind out of itself - meaning all those aberrant ideas.
By Frannie Em on 05/22/2008 12:31 am
Frau Quink
I am 67, white, live in Oregon, and I have voted for Obama. Race ‘should’ not be an issue. Certain people who are so quick to label their opposition do not deserve space on this wonderful new website.
By Frau Quink on 05/20/2008 1:34 pm
Patricia Burstein
No doubt there will be people who won’t vote for a black man for President—-no matter what they tell the pollsters. Yet Obama will appeal to a broad range of voters in our multi-cultural society because he actually looks like America. Just walk to the newsstand or coffee shop in any neighborhood of the City and likely you will see a melange of people. Likewise consider the people who may attend to you at home. Immigrants are blended into daily life both here and in the suburbs and there are many more inter-marriages. A “fancy schmancy” dinner party may not be the ideal place to take a barometer of the mood of the country; which is why your gasping headline about this woman’s remark in “So-Called Liberal NYC” is insular and myopic. There’s absolutely no theme—much less any point— to be extrapolated from this encounter. ‘So shocking, my goodness gracious, in New York City, at a fancy schmancy dinner party—imagine what’s going on in some hamlet in West Virginia. What a sociological finding we have just happened upon!’ So what is the point of this story and the silly expression, “fancy schmancy,” intended to sound easy and breezy, beyond sophistication, uber sophistication, but conveys and produces the opposite impression.
By Patricia Burstein on 05/20/2008 1:41 pm
T S
ok, Patricia…that made me think. Still thinking…that NYC/hamlet in W.Virginia line got me. And I live in NY (but not the fancy- schmancy part) :)
By T S on 05/20/2008 1:58 pm
CAROLINE MuLVEY
Is see no color or gender. I see two people who want to run this country. The only question I see is what are they going to do to help this country. Are they going to fade out the war , are they going to do something positive for health care, and how are they going to get this country get back on it’s feet again and how are they going to help the impoverish and help the people from being staving and homeless. That is all we should consider.
By CAROLINE MuLVEY on 05/20/2008 2:00 pm
Patricia Burstein
Caroline: Excellent point. Further proof that we don’t need to know about some bigot at a “fancy schmancy” (empty expression) party in NYC. Why even dignify this nameless woman in a disingenuous story.
By Patricia Burstein on 05/20/2008 2:06 pm