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Conversation | 02/19/2008 1:33 pm

Chaos in Kenya: An Interview with Helen Epstein

Peter Peter

NOTE: This exclusive interview was originally published by wOw on January 30, 2008.

Helen Epstein, the AIDS researcher and author of The Invisible Cure: Africa, The West, and the Fight Against AIDS, was in Kenya six weeks ago. Yesterday she called to say how upset she was about the riots and chaos that followed the December 27, 2007 elections, and the murder of the opposition politician, Mugabe Were, earlier this week. I asked her to explain it for our readers.

JOAN: What were you doing in Kenya?

HELEN: I was doing a brief investigation of water and sanitation in the Nairobi slums, including Kibera, which is now in flames. I arrived in mid-December, two weeks before the elections that set off the current crisis. I spoke to people in NGOs, government people, scientists. Everyone was focused on development, poverty eradication, getting services like health care, water and education to poor people. There was a lot of interest in these issues — these are the concerns of a stable country, trying to pull itself out of poverty. It didn’t seem as though the place was about to explode.

Since my last visit five years ago, a new free education program had brought a million children into primary schools, health services had improved, the World Bank was planning an enormous water and sanitation project, and investment dollars had poured in. Kenya’s legendary corruption continued, but was a little bit less blatant than before. Daniel Arap Moi, the former President, who had done so much to wreck the country in the 1990s, went off somewhere to grow flowers for export and had stopped causing trouble, or so it seemed. I think a lot of people were surprised by what happened, but of course, not everyone was.

JOAN: What’s your experience in Kenya?

HELEN: I had been to Kenya a few times before, and had worked on a Human Rights Watch report on the elections of 2002 that brought Mwai Kibaki to power. Back then, everyone was worried that the place would go up in flames, but it didn’t. Throughout the 1990s, various political leaders had manipulated tribal sentiments and stirred up hatreds that gave rise to ethnic clashes before each election. During the clashes, certain tribes would be scattered, intimidated, displaced from their homes and effectively disenfranchised. Thousands were also killed. In 2002, President Moi, whose associates were implicated in much of this, had agreed to step down. His preferred successor was a drowsy bon vivant named Uhuru Kenyatta, whom no one took seriously, although they knew that if he won, Moi would continue to pull the strings and nothing would change.

My understanding is that back in 2002, the politicians made some sort of deal and agreed to work together for a peaceful election, and so nothing happened. The transition occurred peacefully and the country, a trading and tourism hub in East Africa, saw five years of rapid economic growth. But even before that election, people were scared. There were rumors of militia groups training in the countryside.

About a month before the 2002 elections, I went up to a Maasai village to talk about AIDS (which is my usual job). It was a drive of many hours from Nairobi, in the middle of nowhere, nothing around but wind and grass and a few huts. After the AIDS discussion, the elders urged me to go back to Lancaster House in London, where the Colonial office used to be, and find the original early 20th century records showing that the land they were now on was originally theirs, and did not belong to Kikuyu — a rival tribe. They were terrified that if Uhuru Kenyatta won, they would be driven out of these windswept, desolate hills. It was all they had.

JOAN: If the 2002 election ended up being peaceful, what set off the violence this week?

Read more about: Helen Epstein, Kenya, Q & A

14 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Turkey  Vulture
My heart breaks for all the violence. The people, families and children whose lives will never be the same. Sometimes it just seems to me that the human race is an experiment gone very wrong. Then I watch Nature series about animals; we live on a planet saturated with viloence. It’s eat or be eaten. No wonder we do such horrible things to each other.
By Turkey Vulture on 03/11/2008 7:47 pm
Leah Taylor
I grew up in Kenya and Uganda. My mother was a volunteer agriculture teacher with Catholic Relief. In my opinion Kenya is never going to be 100% stable until they have a full blown out coup. This sounds horrible and it is. But if you look at their neighbour Uganda that is exactly what happened. Finally after all the fighting they realized how horrible tribalism is. The biggest disease in Africa is Tribalism. It brings hate and dehumanizes people so that it makes them think they can kill and they are just doing their duty. When you think about it this is the trouble all around the World from gang violence to the fight between Palestine and Israel…its our fight against proving that we are different from each other that makes us kill. I love Kenya with all my heart and hope that she makes it but I wonder how many lives will be lost until that happens.
By Leah Taylor on 03/12/2008 8:01 am
Theresa D
This is so frustrating and devastating to watch but it is not new to humankind. When there is oppression, pressure cookers eventually explode. When there is inequality, people revolt. The more people revolt, the more desperately the controlling party tries to hold on. Lives are destroyed but humankind goes on and it seems that nothing is ever learned.
By Theresa D on 03/12/2008 9:09 am
Pat Mussieux
It’s unbelievable how quickly some things change, and yet again, some things never change and we never learn! I was in Kenya in mid-November, in Nairobi, and it was a memorable visit. The people were amazing. The country is breath-taking. The animals (at the Game Reserve) were magical. And then this…….the horror and the heart-ache. When will we, as a human race, ever ‘get it’????????
By Pat Mussieux on 03/12/2008 9:20 am
Lina Scanlan
I think Leah Taylor’s comment above about Africa’s disease being tribalism is very true of Africa today & yesterday. It’s always the notion of us versus them that get humankind into trouble, including the kind that kills both our species and those not of our species. Its premise is primitive & arises out of human fear of our disappearance from life as we know ourselves at the appearance of something different or not of ourselves. I keep hoping that humankind will eventually evolve to a consciousness amenable to something bigger than our individual & collective egos so as to facilitate political & civic policies that embraces true humanity living truly humane lives that enriches us all spiritually. The U.S. joining warring nations pushed us further from such lofty human goals. We may be more sophisticated in manmany ways, but no less tribal than Kenya.
By Lina Scanlan on 03/12/2008 1:44 pm
CJ Denham
I feel so naïve – I’ve never equated gangs and tribes as being equally disruptive to a society. But what a true statement as well as so hearbreaking. “Thus, Washington cares about the Kenya crisis and I think there is going to be a Congressional debate about it soon.” So much debate, so many sub-committees to study the problem…..soon, doesn’t seem very soon.
By CJ Denham on 03/12/2008 5:15 pm
Addie Pray
Bravo for this interview. To invest in the future of Africa has to be partly about bringing women’s education into the fore. The more influence women can exert, the more chance there is of men being curbed - in the very long run. But this is something we should all support and fund. I do recommend, if it’s permitted on this site, the Women for Women International Fund. Adopt a woman who’s a victim of violence. Mine’s in Iraq.
By Addie Pray on 03/13/2008 9:01 am
Teresa Proctor
I agree, the only way we are ever going to may a chance for respect and peace in this World. Is by Women connecting to their hearts and speaking their truth. Every Woman throughout the World wants to be loved, feel safe and secure. No matter where they live, the color of their skin, or their religious/non religious preference. Until we, as a World of Women stand up and speak our truth from the heart, there will always be conflict. Women who are in war torn areas, can not speak their truth for fear of reprisal, however Women in the US, Europe, Australia, and Asia and around the world can speak from the heart on behalf on these Women in Kenya and other areas. Let’s commit to raising the consciousness and let our voices ring out across the World!
By Teresa Proctor on 03/13/2008 5:29 pm
Susan S

Agree, Teresa. Females the world over live in a male-dominated world. Whether reality or metaphor, it’s the male that is most valued. We see it time and again. 

Are you aware of the recent sex strike that all the women in Kenya have gone on—even the president’s wife of Kenya approves…female attorneys (in Kenya) are even paying females sex workers to not have sex with any male for a given time. Same with wives, regardless of how wonderful or not her husband is. It’s a countrywide strike. 

By Susan S on 05/07/2009 12:07 pm
Mary Fell
Mary Fell Thanks so much for this interview and the opportunity to talk about it. I spent a year in Nigeria in the 70’s and fell totally in love with the land, the people, the smells, the feel of the air, the sound of early morning prayers, and so much else. I have never been in a place before or since where I’ve seen old and young treated with such caring and respect. My greatest wish is to return some day, and I second Addie’s recommendation of Women for Women International. The woman I adopted is Nigerian, and it gives me a little peace to know that through that organization I can help someone there. I think women, education and clean water are the answers. This site has great potential to support all those causes.
By Mary Fell on 03/13/2008 9:28 pm
Kathy Morris
Tribes” and “gangs” are just a normal offshoot of human kind. We evolved and survived because of the alliances that we made w/ others of our kind. However, we haven’t evolved to that point where we are ready to be a global village. It may be a stretch, but, since Obama’s grandmother lives in Kenya, perhaps, if he is either President or VP, he may be able to exert some influence upon our aid to this, and the other countries, which are in fact the cradles of human society. And, w/ Hilary, we may have more of the “woman’s touch.” Most women are not warriors, except when protecting their children. I would be interested, from those of you who are more “historian” than am I, how many “wars” have been started by women? This may be sexist, but, I think women are more peace makers (WE sat around the fire and talked w/ other women, while the men hunted side by side - not much time to “chat” and solve problems when you’re battling a large beast and trying to feed your family). Just the genetics of our species, I guess. We need more women in government leadership roles, me thinks!!!
By Kathy Morris on 03/15/2008 5:17 pm
Ali S
Helen’s perspective elaborated on the issues affecting the functioning of society in Kenya. And for her insight I am appreciative. Did she follow up on the Maasi elders request for who were the original land owners? It seems the various tribes are stirred and if truth can be had about their concerns the elders might possibly influence movement toward justice.
By Ali S on 03/15/2008 11:27 pm
Bella Mia
The essence of evil is laziness and selfishness. People become greedy for power so they take it in a greedy, selfish way, rather than go through the process of earning it. It is always the children that suffer the most, and again, we are back to honesty and integrity which is often in the shortest supply in government. People in government have such enormous power to enrich themselves and their friends and truncate their enemies. It is the oldest story since Cain and Abel. I think Modern Christianity does a very good job of re-educating and re-focusing not just women, but especially men, towards a healthier, nobler ethic. Men and their testosterone seem to be a significant part of the problem. To whom do they answer? It helps if they believe in accountability to a higher power.
By Bella Mia on 03/18/2008 11:56 pm
Christine Storma
Violence in all countries will not stop as long as human beings continue to be frightened by those who are different or the few instigate hatred in those who are just looking for a better life and will believe anyone who sounds like they may give it to them. If we do not start to value life and rejoice in the uniqueness of all people I fear there will be nothing left for our great grandchildren but hatred, war and death.
By Christine Storma on 03/20/2008 8:25 am