Conversation | 02/01/2008 10:37 am

Flirting on the Campaign Trail

With Lesley Stahl, Liz Smith and Mary Wells

LIZ: Do you think women in politics have a much tougher time than men?

LESLEY: Hillary has a lot of unique hurdles. I read this the other day buried in somebody’s column and it just jumped out at me. That men, when they campaign, flirt. It is part of the seduction of an audience. A woman cannot do that. Hillary, speaking specifically, cannot be seductive. And politics is the game of seduction. Hillary is often compared to Margaret Thatcher, who also didn’t flirt in public. But she succeeded because she came up through the parliamentary system, which is quite different from ours. But Margaret Thatcher did flirt. She had a coterie of very handsome, young men who always surrounded her. When she hired people for her staff, they were always men who … young men, and she was very coquettish with them. I observed it. And I know for a fact that her relationship with Ronald Reagan was flirtatious, both ways. And this is kind of a grease, or a lubricant, in world affairs — not just politics on the grand scale, but even in diplomacy. And I think it’s a terrible built-in handicap.

MARY: Well, I have spent a life in business, and a woman in business cannot flirt. If a woman flirts in business it’s suicide. She is then not taken seriously. People do not want to spend large, serious sums of money with her and nobody takes her as a mature, really sophisticated, seasoned person. A man in business can flirt, and does flirt, all the time. And this is all businesses, absolutely all businesses. I had to learn that, in the beginning, because I was a very cute little blonde, I had to learn.

ALL THREE (AT ONCE): You still are Mary.

MARY: I just couldn’t notice when anyone tried to flirt with me. I absolutely couldn’t notice all the flirtations that were sort of happening to me and around me, because it would have ruined my career. And I think that is still true. I think that that is … it’s going to take a while to get over that.

LIZ: Mary, are you telling us you didn’t flirt your way … sleep your way to the top?

Read more about: Campaign, Election, Politics

8 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

When I read this morning, that Edwards pulled out of the race, I thought of the wise black politician’s comment, that I heard the other day…it went something like this…This is a time when you must try not to think with your heart but rather with your head… and then I thought …Who is the best one to beat the republican canditate and make sure the democrats end up in the white house ?

By Nora Coblence on 01/30/2008 5:04 pm

e-mail alert

Oh I beg to differ with you on Hillary girls, she flirts. Most definitely, and no, it’s not flirting in the sense of lust, it’s that “flirting socially” that you eluded to. The NH moment. Warm, and friendly…and a little vulnerable. Right? Doesn’t that sound flirtingly familiar? And it worked too, because, it was in fact, charming. I know I was charmed. And I’m rarely charmed by Hillary ;o) The point is, flirting is essentially the act of trying to win someone over with charm, so why does it necessarily have to be a man / woman thing? And why shouldn’t women use it the way men do to connect to a particular audience. Women of our generation tended to be very cautious about appearing feminine and flirty due to the work environment we came into in the last century, but I do believe that’s changing. It’s a fascinating topic in any case. Great to be able to discuss it here.

By patricia hannigan on 03/09/2008 9:37 pm

e-mail alert

What do you mean Hillary looked like a librarian? Have you looked at very many librarians lately? That was sure stereotyping.

By Diane D on 03/11/2008 1:11 am

e-mail alert

Unfortunately, if a woman shows strength, our American society calls her a “bitch.” How many times have we heard Hillary referred to as a bitch simply because she tries to stand tall, look strong and speak with authority. If a man in a leadership role cries, people soften up and say, “How nice, he has a heart.” If a woman who is a leader cries, society calls her a weak hysterical cry baby. I had sincerely hoped that we could have a female President so that a new example could be set for our country and for our daughters and granddaughters.

By IAM Woman on 03/12/2008 7:06 pm

e-mail alert

American Society calls Hillary a bitch because she acts like one. She can be very vicious at times. Not a very good example for someone who wants to represent our country. You can use authority without attacking people. Look at other women leaders around the world. They act like ladies.

By M. G. on 03/17/2008 5:16 pm

e-mail alert

And, the father of our Country, Georgie boy, died from tertiary syphillis.

By Shar Secret on 03/19/2008 3:12 pm

e-mail alert

I’m late to the party, I know. But this reminds me of the guy from Newsweek who said, just before the New Hampshire primary, that Senator Clinton just had no sexual “exchange” on the crowd line. I can’t imagine that it’s all that relevant. But I’ve known enough men in my life to feel relatively sure that if 20 of them shook hands with Hillary Clinton, a good dozen of ‘em realized they’d take her to bed if they could. My father used to say Eleanor Roosevelt was “ugly as a mud fence, but…” and then he’d carry on about all she’d accomplished. I know sex and politics have been linked since the days of the courtesan, but I wish we’d evolve.

By Ms. Dee on 04/12/2008 6:25 pm

e-mail alert

Come to think of it, the only presidents that I don’t remember hearing anything about an alledged other woman are Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. I’m referring to recent presidents. Did they print that kind of stuff re the earlier presidents?

By Judy K. on 01/29/2009 9:32 pm