Conversation | 04/10/2008 11:58 am

'My Friends Become My Family of My Own Choosing'

With Lesley Stahl, Liz Smith and Mary Wells

EDITOR’S NOTE: Also featuring special guest, Joni Evans, CEO of wowOwow

JONI: Let’s talk about friendship. I’m talking about long-term old friends, and what happens with those. And how important are they to us? What happens when one disappoints us or when we’ve outgrown an old friend? Do we feel guilt? Do we feel obligation? And who were our friends? Who made differences in our lives? One thing I feel is that when one loses one’s parents as I have, I find my friends become my family – my family of my own choosing. So I take friends much more seriously than I ever did and I am hurt by them when things don’t go right. And I suffer a lot of guilt when I know I should move on from one of them. And I just wonder if anyone else has that.

LIZ: Well, we are living in a very sort of rarefied urban culture. But the way I grew up, families didn’t have friends. They just had relatives. And I lived my whole life growing up with relatives, except for whatever little friends I made in school. My cousins and aunts and poor relations were who we socialized with. I find that really sort of tragic in the end. People need to go out of their families and make friends and have this experience that you’re talking about which, of course, I now have in spades because there are only a few nieces and nephews left that I am related to any more. So my friends are really important to me. In Texas I have two girlfriends that are exactly my age. I went to college with one of them and started kindergarten with the other.

JONI: Lesley, you were going to say something?

LESLEY: Some of you have heard me say this before, but I think that, for women, our girlfriends become just what Joni said – family. Liz, you find that when you leave your parents, you need to recreate a family. You need that. As we need food, love and shelter, we need to have connections with other women. We all need to feel we can talk to someone and share happiness and sadness and communicate in a really deep way with women. It goes back to caveman times when women stayed home while the men went out and hunted, and we stayed together in a circle. I think it’s a deep, absolute necessity for our lives, our happiness and health.

MARY: Except for my daughters, most of my friends in my life have been people I’ve been working with, one place or another, because we have so much in common and we share so much. And I found that men have been extremely satisfying as friends. Whenever a man became my friend and trusted me he would tell me everything.

LIZ: I agree. Men are great talkers, great gossips and very engaging.

MARY: Women are much more communicative than men are normally. And women become like your sisters right away, sort of. But when a man trusts you and becomes your friend he tells you more than even women do. They just lay down on the floor and tell you everything.

LIZ: I agree with Mary. One of the greatest things that happened to me, as I grew older and got out of the romance rat race, was that I began making friends with men. And men are not afraid to be friends with you. They know you’ll not try to marry them or get their money or something. And I’ve had really incredible experiences in the last 10 years with men, becoming friends with men. And it’s wonderful. It’s a real gift. Lesley, it’s how I feel about your Aaron. I feel he’s really my friend, as well as I feel you are. And I could see Aaron – go to him with a problem or ask him to help me or something like that. And that’s very dear to me.

107 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

As an American living overseas, I have had to create a family through friends. There is no shared history within our new home, even in our own age group. That I miss. So of course we look toward others with similar backgrounds. I am in the local work force, own my own company, but I still after half my life live in two worlds. I could not be happy without my friends=selfmade family

By M BP on 04/10/2008 4:56 pm

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What a thread to relate to! I have two childhood friends with whom it’s not possible (apparently) to talk with now, one being on a very different political plane that has unforunately separated us and one who is just a lousy correspondent. I have many friends from college who are still in touch and even though it’s only through e-mail at this point, they mean a lot to me because I can talk freely with most of them — and isn’t that the point of good friendship? (Obviously rhetorical.) However, the reason this thread struck me most deeply is that I only recently lost one of my very best friends as her fragile health finally gave out and she, blessedly, gave in. We laughed a lot! We had multiple points of mutual reference so that we could finish each other’s thoughts. We fought, hurtfully, more than once, but always came back to one another because we felt the bond that would never break. I miss her so much! And yet there’s another with whom I share the same kind of humor (so freakin’ important!) and references, the same kind of love. And that’s what friendship is to me—forgive the “new age” phrase—unconditional love. We all need it from someone in our lives and if we’re lucky, we find more than one, no matter the gender or the time or the place.

By Karen Gast on 04/10/2008 5:01 pm

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Karen, Re “new age” phrase “unconditional love”….I call that affirmation. I think it is the most sustaining quality in all relationships and esp between parents and children….first the parent to the child, and then as adults to be affirming of our elders. And always as a parent, even when my son was born when I was 17…was so concerned about being affirming that for example saw a woman carrying her baby on her hip, facing out, like a sack of potatoes. And I thought what does that communicate to that child? You are no more considered than a sack of potatoes. I love people like Audrey Hepburn who would show the same respect to a homeless person or a King, think that is real character.

By Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye on 04/10/2008 5:52 pm

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You know, SdeC, the thing about Hepburn, I don’t think she actually saw any difference on a human level between a homeless person or a king. My mother was like that, and I agree with you — it’s sort of a golden measure of character.

By Mugsy Peabody on 04/11/2008 2:35 am

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It could be because I’m tired but for some reason and only recently, I have had this overwhelming need to let go of all my friends and start afresh. I can’t really explain fully, perhaps it’s the disappointment I suffered when I became single again. One really close friend truly sold me out and that is unforgivable in my book. I realise it happens during divorce but I still cannot comprehend that this woman whom I discussed every aspect of my life with, shared tears and laughter with practically on a daily basis betrayed me. She was shallow and I didn’t see it. I lost faith in human nature for a while but have recovered since. She and her spouse are now the best of friends with my ex and his partner which is peculiar because neither of them liked him when we were together. Perhaps I just don’t want to be that open again although I’m a bit of a wearer of my heart on my sleeve type. I can’t be bothered with other folks dramas anymore. For a giving, generous and warm person, I’ve suddenly become intolerant. For instance, one friend whom I’ve known for 20 years and who has never been what one could call reliable, has suddenly gone way down in the pecking order. Her dippy nature was what I liked about her most, now that we are older, it only annoys me so I hardly call her. In my eyes, she just hasn’t grown up. My other friend drifts in and out of relationships - all bad. I used to be continually supportive but lately, “I told you so” seems to be my favourite phrase. What does that make me? A miserable middle-aged shrew? I’m full of life and always smiling but what gives me the right to even think about being critical when my own life hasn’t exactly been perfect. Is what I’m feeling an age thing?

By Victoria Fielding on 04/11/2008 5:24 pm

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I think we really just need different types of friends at different times in our lives. Don’t stress about it…just be with it and enjoy whatever new friendships come along. You are not evil for letting go… it happens. Keep smiling :)

By Carol M on 04/11/2008 10:36 pm

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P.S. to Joni: Don’t feel guilt about moving on. Just feel that it’s been the best that it could be. Yes, I have felt that, and I’m pretty sure we all have. If you feel “longing”, then the friendship isn’t over. It will last.

By Karen Gast on 04/10/2008 5:04 pm

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Karen: Thank you for that. It helps.

By Joni Evans on 04/10/2008 5:23 pm

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I’ve had some girlfriends for over 50 yrs. I would say that my BEST friend is a girl that I met the first day I walked into Dominican HS in New Orleans, in Sept of ‘52, Vondellie. There were actually five of us in that class who were “rather good” friends, but it was Vondelle, Kay, and me who were like The Three Musketeers, all in the same division, the “A” based on last name: Colbert, Erickson, Fisher. I always stayed with Vondelle…We wrote, sometimes kept those letters for six month, writing here and there, mailing when we thought the letter was done…After a few years, Vondelle and her husband (and three kids), came to visit me, and MY three kids. My husband was off in Viet Nam…The visits would probably never have happened had he been home…Not because he wasn’t a nice person: he just wasn’t that social. I’m ramblin’….unless someone wants to hear where this goes, I’m going to stop…Know this: Vondelle is part of my family, now and forever…. Boots Rule (bootsrule@comcast.net)

By Boots Rule on 04/10/2008 9:54 pm

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Don’t despair because it’s over, smile because it happened.

By beth willis on 04/12/2008 10:13 pm

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One makes friends where you find them. Voluntary community work is a good start. Not only does it give you a good feeling to do something for someone else that you seem to find others who want to share in that good feeling and community minded spirit as well. Mentoring someone can turn them into a friend, that build up of trust. How do you let a friend go? I’ve had to do that in the last year. My friend was very dominant, very emotionally abusive, but I didn’t really recognize that fact for a long time. Maybe intellectually I did. But I felt sorry for her, she was disabled , older , didn’t seem to be in good contact with her family and since we both belonged to an Independent Living Center locally we got thrown together for meetings etc. She was a dozen years older than I and she helped me and I helped her. But the thing is is none of my other friends I had could stand her. She was deliberately and purposefully mean and verbally and emotionally abusive. Long story short I had made her my medical advocate along with my long time friend from hs as my power of attorney and executrix. I had distributed to my friends a living will type of document after the Teri Schiavo affair and I thought they all understood my wishes. However a year and a half ago I had a small heart attack, no serious damage thank goodness. My friend who was and is my executrix called up this other friend to tell her about my condition and this mean friend of mine told my executrix that she was going up to tell the doctors in the hospital I was in, to pull the plug as I didn’t want any life saving devices. I wasn’t on any except a heart monitor . My executrix forbade her from visiting me without my executrix in attendance. We talked on the phone but she never showed up to visit me once which I found very odd. Months later ,I complained to my executrix that I thought it was kind of rude that this one friend didn’t visit and I finally found out the truth. But not before this abusive friend had humiliated me publicly for the last and final time. She was like family as all my friends are to me , but I’ve cut her out of my life since June of last year. I don’t feel any remorse , my other friends are much happier because they don’t have to pretend to like this woman for my sake. I still feel badly for her because she is disabled and ill ,however, that doesn’t give her the right to be emotionally abusive and mean to me or anyone else. And I know she doesn’t get it that she is mean and abusive, she just thinks she’s experienced and opinionated. So I drop friends who are toxic and not good for my mental and physical health.

By Liz Seger on 04/10/2008 5:13 pm

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I also had to let a couple of childhood friends go after realizing that I was not benefiting at all from their contact and instead would get so upset after dealing with them - it was destructive not supportive to me. They could not or would not relate to my then single mother demanding career self supporting and lonely situation at all.

By Kay Sara on 04/11/2008 8:11 am

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I was the first of my friends to get divorced and they seemed to disappear during this time. I still have contact with many of them and now that I am married they have invited us out for dinner etc again. But my social calander with my friends really dried up for 7 years while I was divorced - occassionally ‘lunch” but since I had to work full time in a demanding job I was not available for the lunch and shopping thing.

By Kay Sara on 04/11/2008 8:42 am

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I have friends I made while working as a missionary in the jungles and cities of Guatemala. We have absolutely wild stories of being chased by rabid dogs, and groped by street people, crossing decrepit rope bridges over 100 foot ravines, and riding bikes to the rubber plantations. One of the girls, has my same given name, and we were born a day apart - we say that we knew each other in heaven while we were standing in line to come down to earth. We remembered to call each other on our birthdays for more than 23 years, and then her calls mysteriously stopped. I’d leave messages, I’d send cards, I tried to contact her family, but she made no contact. Then - this April 1st she called to wish me a happy birthday - I was so thrilled - and so relieved. Because I have only brothers, some women become like sisters to me.

By Bella Mia on 04/10/2008 5:15 pm

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Hey, this is my subject!! Friendships make life exciting! To have friends, one must be friendly!! Sometimes it is worth it to seek out someone who is not so easy to get to know. I have wonderful women in my life , because it takes one to know one! Yes, we can choose our friends. It takes effort and time and real hearing and listening of your friends to be there in sunshine or rain. Do you really have the kinds of friendships , that when all the world is gone and left , will there be one who stays and does not run away from any type of problem you may have ,and you do the same for her. Many times we say we are friends,but truth be told we do not always listen so well. I try to be uplifting and encouraging to my friends as well as family too. But when a friend takes and never gives back anything but critical judgement , it is time to take a hard long look and see how we can either improve and stretch and grow as friends ,or just have the grace to let them go . That is a hard thing to do, for we may feel like we let them down, but they may have been the one who let us down. The ones who have good solid friendships are ones who can trust others and allow for differences in thinking and who accepts themselves as they are and not trying to make others fit into their mold or box of who they are and what they do… control is not to be an issue.. Love ,kindness and looking for a real relationship in a friendship! I have this little saying on my bureau.. that says in essence >” A real friend is one who knows all about you and loves you anyway” Friends , male or female make it worth the risk it takes to have others in our lives..Friendships are SPECIAL!!

By Carla Altland on 04/10/2008 5:15 pm