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Conversation | 06/06/2008 6:26 pm

Liz Smith on Hillary: 'A Lot of Obama's Supporters Would Just Die if He Chose Her'

© AP

Editor’s Note: Sen. Clinton announced this week that she is going to give her support to Sen. Obama and give up the race. What happens to the vice presidency now? Who do you think Obama will choose? Do you think he, in order to unite the party, will choose Hillary as his running mate? These are the questions we posed to Liz, Mary, Judith and Jane.

LIZ: I just had lunch with one of Hillary’s backers, a person who is an aide to Hillary. And she says that she always encouraged her to try and get the vice-presidential slot if she couldn’t win the presidency. But now she feels that Obama probably won’t offer it, because they really don’t want her. They just want her to campaign for him, but they don’t want her to be vice president. Imagine the baggage she would have as the vice president – she and Bill. The vice president doesn’t have very much to do – just serves at the will of the president; presides over the Senate. And, while it’s the second most important job, it’s kind of a nothing job. It’s a strange thing.

MARY: But the current vice president has been very powerful.

JUDITH: You haven’t pointed out that it’s second in line to the presidency.

LIZ: That’s right. That’s the advantage.

JUDITH: I think she should go for a good job. She’s got a bargaining position, and the Supreme Court would be ideal for her. But when Sen. Obama gave his victory speech, it sounded suspiciously like he might offer her something terrible, like being head of H.H.S.[Dept. of Health and Human Services].

LIZ: This person, the one who’s her aide, doesn’t believe she would want to be in the cabinet.

JUDITH: I would think not, especially H.H.S., which is such a difficult position.

LIZ: Well, I think she’d make a dandy secretary of state. I can see her traveling around the world to restore the reputation of this country, at the will of her president. Or, she can remain the senator of New York and bide her time and see what happens. My friend believes that whatever her faults were in this campaign should be blamed on Mark Penn who refused to set up any kind of grassroots thing for her and didn’t use the Internet properly. So Obama took all of that away from them. Most of Hillary’s people now really blame this guy. And for all of her faults in the campaign, she remains a very dedicated and capable and driven kind of person. And we’ve got to remember — 18 million Americans wanted her for president.

Look at Hillary’s enormous support among these older, uneducated women in America, and how marginalized they are by everybody else – like they don’t count. And she really made them count. And I don’t think there’s any way they can vanquish her. I think she’ll come back in one way or another. And Obama’s not ignoring that. He’ll do something, I think. He’ll offer her something – maybe something she really wants.

JUDITH: The things on her list of what she wants were on the domestic side — not on the foreign affairs side. What would be more powerful than the Supreme Court?

LIZ: I don’t know, though. I feel, Judith, it’s too sort of sedentary for her.

JUDITH: Really?

MARY: Don’t you have to have some legal background?

JUDITH: You don’t have to have been a judge, no. You have to be a lawyer, which she is.

LIZ: She’s a good lawyer.

JUDITH: Yes, she’s a lawyer. And if she wants to advance those issues, which were all domestic issues, I would think that that would be the place. And it’s a much better job than being president, much less vice president.

LIZ: Well what do you think, Mary?

1157 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

E .
Lorraine - Nice try to save Taylor by trying to redefine her statement with one based on demographics. We all know that Taylor was not pointing to demographics when she use the term “average white person”. She was letting her bias or bigotry against whites slip out and suggesting that “the average white person” does not get/comprehend the significance of or want Barack Obama to be POTUS. You claim that I am biased against - whom or what? I challenge you to highlight anywhere on this entire site that I have written anything bigoted. Anyone who identified themselves as white would be wrung out and hung out to dry if they used the term “average black” to qualify or highlight any particular point they were making. I don’t care what color anyone is - there is no moral way to accurately define the intelligence, intentions, morality, character, or integrity any one race, culture, creed or other group of people as a whole.
By E . on 06/06/2008 3:42 pm
Lorraine Bates
Hang me out, then, because I’m white, and I defined the average black. I never called you bigoted -I called you biased. Biased because you can’t see the black world. You don’t know what it’s like. It’s great to say you’re colorblind, but there is no such thing. Just as there is no such thing as the “intelligence, intentions, morality, character or integrity of one race, culture, creed, or other group of people as a whole.” Can you even define your FAMILY as one group with the same intelligence, intentions, etc? I know I can’t.
By Lorraine Bates on 06/06/2008 4:32 pm
Lorraine Bates
Dang - hit “submit” too fast. Let me pick up where I left off. ….I know I can’t. You’re right about that. But there is evidence to support that one race, culture, creed, etc did have the same experiences. And I will venture to guess that if your grandparents were considered property by the other races, cultures, etc, you’d be able to talk aboaut your group collectively, just as you’d be able to make some generalizations about the group that owned them. Racial tension is HIGH in our country. Why can’t we talk about what makes us tense, what still divides us, and what causes debates such as this? Until we are willing to be honest, not worry about being “PC” or gettings our feelings hurt, and really have open and honest dialogue, we’ll keep having this same argument, over and over. I’m a white, middle-aged woman. But, through chance - because I wasn’t looking for them - and miracle - because my life wouldn’t be the same without them - I have a multiracial family, with black children, black in-laws, and native american in-laws. If it’s taught me one thing about race relations, it’s taught me that the notion of colorblindness is a bedtime story. And until you have walked a mile in the other’s shoes, you can only either guess what it’s like, witness what it’s like, or deny that it is different from what you experience in your own life and the lives of your familly.
By Lorraine Bates on 06/06/2008 4:41 pm
~ countrywoman ~
Hello Lorraine Bates - (6/6/2008 4:41 PM) The judgmental comments in this discussion have made for very uncomfortable reading. You have added a most informed and welcome perspective. A mile may be too short a distance, but it would make for a good start. Appreciate your post.
By ~ countrywoman ~ on 06/06/2008 4:56 pm
To the beach ~~~
Lorraine, I think racial tension being high depends on where you live…it’s definitely not in SF where 73% of Nancy Pelosi’s well-educated, affluent, mostly white district went for Obama. And if racial tension were all that high he wouldn’t be the nominee. I think it is high with some bigots and that they, and those who wish to divide the country, make a lot of noise and stir the flames. Sad to see…but I’m focused on the progress—-as I am sure you are too. I am also white, female, educated, political activist/wonk and should be HRC’s constituency and am very proud to support Obama. The race has been contentious as most campaigns are…historic as few have been, and am as pleased as can be. with the outcome
By To the beach ~~~ on 06/06/2008 7:39 pm
Maurine H
I, too, appreciate your post, Lorraine. Mine is also a multi-racial family and although I never expect anyone to understand what my kids have been through, I am often shocked at the assumptions people make about all of us without knowing any of us.
By Maurine H on 06/06/2008 8:35 pm
Taylor Hall
Lorraine, thank you for your comments. I fail to remember the woman’s name who is referring to me and/or my statement as one a bigot would say. This is the best word to use when you have touched a nerve. I did strike at a nerve. Didn’t one lady say she was uncomfortable with what she was reading. I love this. Let’s see… let me share a little of my everyday life with you all. Bigot I am not and have never been. I share my bed, my life, lmy heart with an awesome, rock star of a highly educated man; he is white. Yes, I am married to a white gentleman of 62 years of age. Our daughter, the lovely Miss Morgan is now 3 years old. My step daughter…I love as if I was blessed to have birthed her into this world is Americanasian. So my life circles around multi cultures. I see, live and feel much of what Lorraine lives everyday. We have not and do not have problems with our neighbors, associates, friends, business colleagues, etc. Let me correct that. No problems that we are aware of. My parents love my husband. He is their son in-law. My Father is a 78 year old black man. He kisses my husband. Talks with him on the telephone. They work on projects together at my parents home. My aunts all in their 80’s love my husband. They love my family. My Father’s family onced owned 1000’s acres of farm land. All but 200 odd acres were stolen by white farm owners in their southern town. My Father onced hated white people. He got over his hatred. He worked at it. He did this my listening, talking, commenting and making an attempt understand various views. He left the south. You should see my Father and my husband together. It is awesome. My family totally rocks!!!!!! My Mother in law, we had the exact same relationship. She passed two years ago. But lived in our home for many years. I bathed her, washed her hair, took her for drives in between working a demanding career. I am no bigot. We miss that lady something terrible. I still cry over not seeing her or touching her or just talking with her. I am no bigot. You didn’t know all of this. You didn’t ask. You assumed. We have race problems in this nation. Look at the response or name calling with regard to my statement. I even indicated maybe we can agree that we see or view things differently based on our past and where we are today. The reponse…I am pleased to see. If we can only talk as we are doing now…think of the good that can come out of this. I speak my mind not with the intention of personally hurting or insulting anyone in the room or on the board. My feeling is that I did not hurt anyone. You may be a little surprised because you see my mug shot and you know my name. When people speak their mind while visiting online…they hide as much about themselves as possible. This woman Taylor, is a proud southern woman. I will not say something that does not represent what it is I believe. But speak your mind. I knew my post would pluck a nerve or two. Let’s keep talking because we have race issues in this country that will not improve unless we engage at such a dialogue. It is not Morgan’s responsibility to fix this mess we are in. Nor is it your child’s job. I am tired…sorry if there are mistakes.
By Taylor Hall on 06/06/2008 9:53 pm
~ countrywoman ~
Hi Taylor Hall - (6/6/2008 9:53 PM) I am so pleased that you came back to share more of your perspective with us. Sifting through some of the postings can be uncomfortable indeed, but there is much wheat mixed in with the chaff. Welcome, and thank you.
By ~ countrywoman ~ on 06/06/2008 11:30 pm
rocky rocky
Taylor Hall: “Let’s keep talking because we have race issues in this country that will not improve unless we engage at such a dialogue.” Waiting for HC to speak, I was looking to get an update on the conversation and was pleased to see you’ve added another post. Yes, I too hope the dialogue continues. It’s difficult to do; most people want to swerve into “safer” or more comfortable territory. Some I think are simply afraid that they will slip somehow, perhaps with a politically incorrect term — despite having hearts in the “right” place — and be attacked mercilessly. I just had a thought: people like Chris Rock and George Carlin, people who can address the issues head on, are really useful to society. To use an old expression, they let it all hang out. Wish we had more of them. Here’s Hillary. Bye …
By rocky rocky on 06/07/2008 11:44 am
E .
Lorraine - “Just as there is no such thing as the “intelligence, intentions, morality, character or integrity of one race, culture, creed, or other group of people as a whole.” Can you even define your FAMILY as one group with the same intelligence, intentions, etc? I know I can’t.” Exactly my point above. So you agree that Taylor’s comment about “the average white person” is flawed and stems from bigotry. You said to me “I called you biased. Biased because you can’t see the black world. You don’t know what it’s like.” How can you possibly think that you know what I do or do not “see”. How can you possibly know what waters I swim in. You know virtually nothing about me. Do you have any clue where I live? Any clue who my friends are? Any clue what type of work I do? Do you have any clue what my ancestry is? Any idea what my racial origins are? You leap to wild conclusions without sound reason and paint me with the sweeping broad brush of ignorance to “the black world” because I criticize Barack Obama. You assume that because I criticize Barack Obama that I must be white and therefore as a white person I have no right to think or to criticize but should instead be submissive, roll over onto my back with my tail between my legs and vote out of some twisted white guilt? Fortunately it doesn’t work that way and your way of thinking is out of line.
By E . on 06/06/2008 7:14 pm
E .
Lorraine - “But there is evidence to support that one race, culture, creed, etc did have the same experiences. And I will venture to guess that if your grandparents were considered property by the other races, cultures, etc, you’d be able to talk aboaut your group collectively, just as you’d be able to make some generalizations about the group that owned them.” Again Lorraine - you don’t know who you are speaking to. You don’t know my history. Taylor was not talking about the group that her grandparents came from - she was generalizing about white people. Having had ancestors who were slaves does not impart special wisdom or the entitlement to be bigoted toward any other race. Just by virtue of you having a multi-racial family does not make you an expert on the subject of race and race relations. It does not give you the right to suggest or even to assume that I “can’t see the black world”. It doesn’t make you anything special or bestow you with additional wisdom. It doesn’t change you or make you anything more or less than what you are, a woman with a multi-racial family (and much more than that I’m sure). I’m certain that your family is a good and loving one - but it is no more or less special than mine. You and I are no more or less wiser than each other or anyone else. Neither of us or any of our family members has the right to be hateful by virtue of our ancestry.
By E . on 06/06/2008 7:27 pm
Lorraine Bates
I see that my point was not made with you, so I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I was not trying to impart any “wisdom” on you or anyone else, just trying to give an alternate point of view.
By Lorraine Bates on 06/09/2008 4:29 pm
To the beach ~~~
Elizabeth— “Average” meaning the statistical median is widely used in many discussions as a generalization, and didn’t interpret Taylor meaning anything other than that. ie Here’s a statistical description of the “Average Joe” American: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_Joe US Government Info/Census etc that is often based on statistical averages: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/Census_and_Statistics…. I don’t understand why you’re upset…I just took Taylor’s comment as expressing her opinion….we all have one…doesn’t mean it’s right or wrong. I’m white and for Obama and am definitely not voting for him our of “some twisted white guilt’ …you can’t mean you think that’s why he is the nominee can you…because that would be ludicrous.
By To the beach ~~~ on 06/06/2008 7:52 pm
E .
French Heart -“I’m white and for Obama and am definitely not voting for him our of “some twisted white guilt’ …you can’t mean you think that’s why he is the nominee can you…because that would be ludicrous.” Not at all what I meant. I was responding to Lorraine’s implication that because I have posted some criticisms of Barack Obama and did not have grandparents who were slaves that I am biased against African Americans and do not “see the black world”. It is ridiculous to suggest that a non-African American is biased because they question the qualifications of an African American. That was my point in asking if I was supposed to roll over and tuck my tail between my legs and submit my vote (out of “some twisted white guilt”) in fear of being marked as biased against blacks.
By E . on 06/07/2008 12:14 am
To the beach ~~~
Elizabeth, I see…thanks for taking the time to clarify that!
By To the beach ~~~ on 06/07/2008 12:54 pm