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Conversation | 06/06/2008 6:26 pm

Liz Smith on Hillary: 'A Lot of Obama's Supporters Would Just Die if He Chose Her'

© AP

Editor’s Note: Sen. Clinton announced this week that she is going to give her support to Sen. Obama and give up the race. What happens to the vice presidency now? Who do you think Obama will choose? Do you think he, in order to unite the party, will choose Hillary as his running mate? These are the questions we posed to Liz, Mary, Judith and Jane.

LIZ: I just had lunch with one of Hillary’s backers, a person who is an aide to Hillary. And she says that she always encouraged her to try and get the vice-presidential slot if she couldn’t win the presidency. But now she feels that Obama probably won’t offer it, because they really don’t want her. They just want her to campaign for him, but they don’t want her to be vice president. Imagine the baggage she would have as the vice president – she and Bill. The vice president doesn’t have very much to do – just serves at the will of the president; presides over the Senate. And, while it’s the second most important job, it’s kind of a nothing job. It’s a strange thing.

MARY: But the current vice president has been very powerful.

JUDITH: You haven’t pointed out that it’s second in line to the presidency.

LIZ: That’s right. That’s the advantage.

JUDITH: I think she should go for a good job. She’s got a bargaining position, and the Supreme Court would be ideal for her. But when Sen. Obama gave his victory speech, it sounded suspiciously like he might offer her something terrible, like being head of H.H.S.[Dept. of Health and Human Services].

LIZ: This person, the one who’s her aide, doesn’t believe she would want to be in the cabinet.

JUDITH: I would think not, especially H.H.S., which is such a difficult position.

LIZ: Well, I think she’d make a dandy secretary of state. I can see her traveling around the world to restore the reputation of this country, at the will of her president. Or, she can remain the senator of New York and bide her time and see what happens. My friend believes that whatever her faults were in this campaign should be blamed on Mark Penn who refused to set up any kind of grassroots thing for her and didn’t use the Internet properly. So Obama took all of that away from them. Most of Hillary’s people now really blame this guy. And for all of her faults in the campaign, she remains a very dedicated and capable and driven kind of person. And we’ve got to remember — 18 million Americans wanted her for president.

Look at Hillary’s enormous support among these older, uneducated women in America, and how marginalized they are by everybody else – like they don’t count. And she really made them count. And I don’t think there’s any way they can vanquish her. I think she’ll come back in one way or another. And Obama’s not ignoring that. He’ll do something, I think. He’ll offer her something – maybe something she really wants.

JUDITH: The things on her list of what she wants were on the domestic side — not on the foreign affairs side. What would be more powerful than the Supreme Court?

LIZ: I don’t know, though. I feel, Judith, it’s too sort of sedentary for her.

JUDITH: Really?

MARY: Don’t you have to have some legal background?

JUDITH: You don’t have to have been a judge, no. You have to be a lawyer, which she is.

LIZ: She’s a good lawyer.

JUDITH: Yes, she’s a lawyer. And if she wants to advance those issues, which were all domestic issues, I would think that that would be the place. And it’s a much better job than being president, much less vice president.

LIZ: Well what do you think, Mary?

1157 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Buh- Bye
I’m getting carpal tunnel on this thread
By Buh- Bye on 06/08/2008 12:32 am
Frannie Em
My Alias You said it.
By Frannie Em on 06/08/2008 6:34 pm
JJ GB
I’m in a “wait and see” mode for now, to know how each and every player continues, in this event. I will vote and support when I can and await the results.
By JJ GB on 06/07/2008 7:33 pm
Renata
Hillary Clinton’s 5 mistakes By: David Paul Kuhn June 7, 2008 11:11 AM EST Covering a campaign is more like covering a sports team than either sort of reporter cares to admit. The same performance that’s labeled “gutsy” after a win becomes “inadequate” after a loss. While Hillary Rodham Clinton managed more primary votes than any winning candidate before her, it wasn’t enough for the onetime front-runner to beat Barack Obama. And so the mistakes that would have been obscured by a victory have instead been brought into relief by her defeat. Here are five of the key mistakes that helped cost her the nomination: 1) Hubris Hillary didn’t just sell the press and the public on her inevitability as the general election candidate; she sold herself the same bill of goods, telling George Stephanopoulos before the Iowa caucus that “I’m in it for the long run. It’s not a very long run. It will be over by February 5.” Hubris was the campaign’s fatal flaw, from which the others, both strategic and tactical, derived. 2) The Iraq War Vote “There is a straight line from Howard Dean to Ned Lamont to Barack Obama,” said Carter Eskew, the chief strategist for Al Gore’s 2000 campaign. The 2002 vote authorizing military intervention in Iraq has haunted Clinton since, and opened up a space for an anti-war candidate in this year’s primary. While John Edwards, who cast the same vote, later claimed to have made a mistake in doing so, Clinton — looking ahead to a general electorate disappointed with the war in Iraq but still hoping for some sort of victory there (and perhaps also back to the 1990s image of the Clintons as serial parsers) — continued to defend her vote even as she criticized the war. See Also As campaign ends, was Clinton to blame? Same candidate, new race Clinton’s exit: When push came to shove “When you have voted the wrong way on the signature issue of the change election, it’s very difficult to position yourself as the change candidate,” Eskew continued. “The whole energy in this campaign was [in] being anti-war.” Voters associated Clinton with her husband’s administration, in part explaining why she based her run on “experience” and ceded the more appealing “change” role to Obama, whose limited tenure in Washington, soaring rhetoric and the historic nature of his candidacy all aligned nicely with that narrative. (Though as the first woman with a serious chance at the presidency, Clinton would been a historic nominee, too.) Obama’s consistent opposition to the war, from the outset to the present, helped build his brand and voter base, and plugged him in to a network of small-contribution donors that continues to fuel his record-setting fundraising. Joe Trippi, who served as a top strategist for John Edwards in 2008, believes a Clinton apology would have helped take the issue off the table. But many saw Clinton’s refusal to apologize as a testament to her strength, which she saw as a character trait a female candidate couldn’t afford to compromise. “They were determined not to make primary mistakes” that would come back to haunt them against the Republican nominee, said Tad Devine, Sen. John F. Kerry’s chief strategist in 2004, who remained neutral in this year’s primary. “My reaction to that, you don’t get to participate in the general election unless you win the primary.” 3) The Trouble With Iowa Clinton’s deputy campaign manager Mike Henry wrote a May 2007 campaign memo arguing that the campaign should “skip” the Iowa caucuses since they “will cost over $15M” but “we will not have a financial advantage or an organizational advantage over any of our opponents” and going all-out there “may bankrupt the campaign [but] provide little if any political advantage.” (The memo, it should be noted, also offered the less prescient claim that “In effect, the Democratic Party is holding a national primary with over 20 states choosing a nominee on Feb. 5.”) As it turned out, Clinton spent more than $20 million and finished third and short on cash. A great unnoticed irony is that had Clinton mostly skipped Iowa, Edwards would likely have won, and become Clinton’s presumptive rival, leaving Obama out in the cold. “She should have gone to Iowa but she should not have not doubled down on it. And it cost them the resources that she needed to fight a long fight,” said Devine. “She was the candidate to win a war of attrition.” 4) The Great Caucus Blunder In the same interview with Stephanopoulos, Clinton shrugged off the effect of a potential loss in Iowa, saying “I don’t think it’s a question of recovery. I have a campaign that is poised and ready for the long term. We are competing everywhere through Feb. 5. We have staff in many states. We have built organizations in many states.” But “many states” turned out to mean organization myopically focused on big state and Super Tuesday primaries. “Keep everything else the same and add that she competed in the caucus states, she would have won,” Trippi said. “It’s actually fairly amazing.” There were some built-in advantages for Obama in the caucus states. Party activists are most likely to turnout for caucuses, and Obama was the favorite of the progressive grassroots. But by mostly neglecting these small contests, Clinton conceded delegates that effectively cancelled out her gains in larger states. In Minnesota, for example, Obama beat Hillary by 24 delegates, twice as many delegates as Clinton gained on her rival in the much larger Pennsylvania primary. After Super Tuesday, the smaller contests also allowed Obama to offer his own, more credible, narrative of inevitability. Between his Super Tuesday draw and the Virginia vote, Obama won five small contests in a row, including three caucuses. Those victories gave Obama a winner’s aura heading into Virginia, which may have helped him increase his margin there, which in turn further increased his perceived momentum. “You could look at any point in this process and change one or two states and had a totally different outcome,” said Tony Fabrizio, who served as chief strategist for Bob Dole in 1988. Devine agreed. “If his numbers had not looked so overwhelming, the movement of superdelegates would have been inhibited,” he added. “It would have been a different dynamic; a different narrative.” 5) An Old-Fashioned, Offline Campaign “It’s like no one watched from 1984 to 2004,” Trippi said of Clinton’s campaign. The spectacular internet fundraising success of Howard Dean’s 2004 primary run seemed to have had little impact on Clinton, who’d built a tremendous network of old-school big-money donors. Fundraising online might have been more difficult for Clinton, considering how much of her support came from the establishment. Trippi, though, disputes that assertion, pointing out that in February, when Clinton’s campaign adjusted to new-fashioned fundraising and she began mentioning her Web site frequently in her speeches, about half of the contributions she received were for less than $200 — while only about a fifth of her contributions had been in that range in the last quarter of 2007. It wasn’t just fundraising, though. Politico’s Kenneth P. Vogel calculates that Obama spent $6.8 million on web advertisements from the beginning of the campaign through the end of April, while Clinton spent just $350,000. When she finally caught on — spending more on online advertising in March and April than in the previous 14 months — Obama had already built a substantial lead in online presence (including ads on the Politico website). As with any losing campaign, there’s practically no end to the mistakes that can be blamed for contributing to Clinton’s defeat. Other culprits would include Bill Clinton’s at times unhinged public appearances, the racially coded messages the campaign was repeatedly accused of sending, the Bosnian sniper tall tale, the double talk about drivers licenses for illegal immigrants, and her damning admission that she did not read the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq before voting to authorize the use of military force. What we know with certainty is that pundits and historians will be busy for years assigning and assessing blame — and that the long run was longer than Clinton anticipated, and the end result different.
By Renata on 06/07/2008 7:39 pm
Star Lawrence
When you post a whole story, you violate copyright law.
By Star Lawrence on 06/08/2008 11:47 am
Elizabeth Bennett
And also the terms of use of this site, but even posting substantial amounts can land a person in copyright law hot water. For those interested in what and how much they can quote, the feds have a handy link: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html I think one can post links without limitation. I just get discouraged by the wholesale quotes because I begin to think I am crazy [Did I not just read that half an hour ago?] and then realize that indeed I did read it half an hour ago. Then I feel like I am wasting my time, reading the same article twice. Sadly, I have decided that the only way to overcome this is to skip most of Renata’s posts. Maybe I am missing something; I don’t know. Your posts, Star, I read every word!
By Elizabeth Bennett on 06/08/2008 1:23 pm
To the beach ~~~
No she does not. It wasn’t a story for starters. And she gave FULL credit to the piece, it’s origins and the author, and which is all over the lefty Websites, as the author wishes it to have wide readership. Maybe read it and learn instead of desparately trying to again disparage Renata.
By To the beach ~~~ on 06/08/2008 2:27 pm
Renata
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=2c2ec3a8-e813-4d4e-b566-510e0f… 3AM for Feminism - The New Republic TNR TALKBACK [28 comments] How remarkable that a political campaign could be transformed into a pretext for personal grudge; how breathtaking that a woman whose commitment to feminine ideals was a deep as a mirror could be percieved as a symbol for womanhood; how discouraging that so many women cannot reason beyond their emotions; how historically typical that white feminism exploits racism. Mandy All this belies the fact that—as you point out—almost none of this actually has to do with anything Obama did other than BEATING HILLARY. What we’re really seeing is what happens when the entitlement of feminist identity politics gets into a conflict with the facts: That somebody has to win, and that somebody is the person who has the most delegates. As soon as feminism hits facts, either we have to scrap feminism or we have to scrap reality. Clinton’s diehards chose to scrap the latter. What amazes me is the latent racism inherent in all the assumptions made by Clinton supporters. Countless times I’ve heard Clinton supporters proclaim Obama to be lazy, shiftless, and unworthy while Hillary was “hardworking” and “brilliant”. I’ll start kissing Clintonian rear end as soon as Clinton supporters get off this sexist-racist “Hillary is so much smarter” meme and start acknowledging that the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review and a man who managed to ascend so quickly from state politics all the way to being the nominee of the Democratic Party is someone who is clearly nothing short of a genius. Start giving my guy some credit and I’ll stop harping on the now-proven incompetence of your own candidate. Abe I’m not sure just which wave of feminism we are up to, but Hillary may be the death of second-wave feminism. She exposes it as nothing more than a form of special pleading that insists women, even those who have already gained high office, are in fact inferior. They cannot be subjected to the ordinary demands of politics at the top but must be coddled because they are women. And if they are not they will declare themselves victims of misogyny. I think Hillary Clinton discredits the women’s movement and women’s rights. Like everything else she touches, she merely exploits it as just the latest vehicle for her ambition. It is sad to see a group of women so ready to be used merely because Hillary sheds a few tears and yells sexism and demands solidarity. This is a problem for the Democratic party to be sure, but the women’s movement is going to have to decide whether it wants to commit political suicide. You cannot really stop anyone from committing suicide when they are determined to do so. That may be the case here. But sitting out the 2008 election will not make women’s issues more politically relevant. It will make them irrelevant as the Democratic party shifts right and abandons its historic stance in favor of reproductive rights in order to compensate for the missing feminist left wing. I think women have more at stake than Obama. roidubouloi
By Renata on 06/07/2008 8:00 pm
Frannie Em
Renata, Your obsession is getting tiring. People are not reading it therefore you are wasting your time.
By Frannie Em on 06/07/2008 8:09 pm
To the beach ~~~
Fran—I read it and so do others. The only thing that is tiresome is your exceedingly childish, small, belittling little cliche that can’t just scroll past what you don’t wish to read without comment, AND the constant denigrating of Obama while also disparaging anyone who factually comments on why Clinton lost. You are a few people in a snotty little click of hens, just as JackieOh said….who gang up and belittle in an effort to silence anyone you don’t agree with. Sanctimonious and hypocritical. I repeat, FREE SPEECH. This ISN’T your BOARD. So ignore what you don’t like. I can stand little hicks like you and Deni….but gee, I have to put up with that….so get used to Renata…because she has as much right here as you do. And if you all keep attacking her —-I’ll keep defending her. So YOU are perpetuating it. So why don’t you zip it lady.
By To the beach ~~~ on 06/08/2008 6:32 am
Mugsy Peabody
Calling names and TYPING IN CAPITAL LETTERS doesn’t get anything, Suzanne, and calling me a victim because you don’t agree with me? Oh, please, you are the one who every time there’s a problem and people get pissed off, you go off talking about your family situation or medical problems or whatnot. If you want to do shadowwork on the internet boards, fine, just don’t do it with me.
By Mugsy Peabody on 06/08/2008 3:25 pm
To the beach ~~~
Mugsy, Have you always been such a resentful/pop psychology type or is this something new?
By To the beach ~~~ on 06/08/2008 3:48 pm
Deni G
Mugsy is who Mugsy has always been. You on the other hand have been a least a two dozen people on this site and post simultaneously as more than one person. You get more and more hysterical and then go bat sh!t crazy all over everybody. At which time you begin to type the very same things your other “handles” are typing. You become so unbalanced and spew such vile, that you have disappear for a few days and come back with a brand new name. Then you begin again by sounding rational for awhile, but inevitably start the ugly downward spiral. This time will be no different. Watching you implode is a regular ground hog day marathon.
By Deni G on 06/08/2008 5:01 pm
Buh- Bye
this is rather an accurate description
By Buh- Bye on 06/09/2008 1:03 am
To the beach ~~~
Watching the Mugsy/Deni/Fran et al cabal attack others en masse is a regular ground hog’s day…Taylor, Renata, JackieOh, me…the other day resentful Mugsy attacking Frank…gee, good work, she’s driven four people off in two days, JackieOH and Frank, Renata and Taylor….. Renata has more brains than this little redneck cabal put together but always the belittling comments about her, including sabielle’s overt racists ones. You seem to be the hysterical one, and ‘everybody’ is an exageration just the cabal after it goes after renata…..while also in the past refusing to not do the same re klein. Incredible, incredible hypocrites. You can say ugly all you want…..I know I’m not and also what I have observed in your twisted little cabal esp towards Renata and Taylor….BUT NOT towards Klein anywhere near the level when he was committing actual hate crimes on this site. You’re spewing to deaf ears lady so why not just grab whatever liquor it is you are on and hop on your motorcycle and go take a spin around lovely Texas.
By To the beach ~~~ on 06/09/2008 4:53 am