CYNTHIA: Did you hear the joke the other night from one of the late-night talk shows: “Well, you know, now we know why Democrats don’t mind tax increases. They don’t pay the taxes.”

LIZ: Well, some of us do. And I know so many people that really pay lots of attention to their taxes. And when I think about what I’ve been through with the Internal Revenue Service, I don’t think I’ve ever particularly gotten a break, and I’ve had a lot of intense examinations. So I can’t get over these people. The minute the shadow of the White House falls on you, you better remember whether you paid your taxes or not. This is a really dismaying beginning for Democrats. I know it’s not the end of the world, and Obama will overcome and all of that, but, boy, it’s really depressing for those of us who’ve been paying attention. I’ve been filing taxes since I was 16. And you all know how old I am.

LESLEY: The question is really whether they deliberately set out to cheat the government. And I have to say, I don’t believe that they did. I have a feeling that they hire accountants whose job is to try to save you as much money as possible. And maybe they’re the ones that are getting a little cute here. If, like me, you want to give these people the benefit of the doubt, you say, “You know, they really didn’t know. They honestly, truly didn’t know that having a car and driver was a taxable item.” I find the tax code to be incomprehensible. Completely impenetrable, and I am willing to believe that they’re not venal.

CYNTHIA: But in Mr. Geithner’s case, by way of example, he knew perfectly well.

LESLEY: That’s an egregious case. I was really thinking of Daschle. And I know the bill was enormous, but I looked at it and I thought, “I can see how people wouldn’t know you’re supposed to pay taxes on X, Y and Z.”

LIZ: You’re saying they didn’t really realize that they owe taxes or whatever — their ignorance being no excuse, but nevertheless that was the excuse. But they’re the ones who have to blow the whistle on themselves eventually. This wasn’t discovered by outside forces, that they hadn’t paid taxes. Didn’t they all just fess up at the last minute?

LESLEY: Some of the cases were discovered during the vetting process. But Daschle put it out there.

CYNTHIA: I think Geithner and Daschle are in rather different situations.

LESLEY: Yeah, you’re right.

CYNTHIA: Geithner, the one who didn’t get disqualified, and Daschle, the one who did – it seems to me Geithner’s offense is worse.

LESLEY: No, that’s right – in the sense that they had identified that he hadn’t paid his taxes for …

CYNTHIA: In ’03 and ’04, he paid ‘em. And guess what? He had the same job and had evaded the same taxes in ’01 and ’02.

LESLEY: And he knew that and didn’t pay them.

CYNTHIA: They decided to go ahead and approve Geithner, and Daschle stepped down. Why?

LESLEY: Let’s face it, Daschle would have been approved, I think, if Nancy Killefer hadn’t withdrawn her own name. And what were her taxes? Nine hundred dollars?

LIZ: Don’t some say she was sort of a sacrificial lamb?

LESLEY: I think that she withdrew because she just didn’t want to be the second one. But if it had only been Geithner, I think they would have gone and tried for Daschle, because there wouldn’t have been such an uproar. It was public opinion that forced him out.