Conversation | 02/12/2009 10:45 am

Lesley Stahl on Men: The More Romantic Sex?

Lesley joins Liz Smith and Cynthia McFadden to debate the merits of Valentine’s Day, seduction and those red, satin hearts

With Cynthia McFadden, Lesley Stahl and Liz Smith

QUESTION: What are you all doing for Valentine’s Day?

LIZ: I’m not doing anything special. I’m perfectly romantic and in love and good and positive and drawing little hearts on pieces of paper every day of the year. So I’ll just carry on with my doodling. But I love Valentine’s Day because you don’t have to give too much attention to it. You can buy a little present, it’s just as good as a big one. I mean, it’s a harmless, wonderful oasis of positivism in a world gone mad.

LESLEY: Don’t you find that men are more romantic than women? I always forget things like Valentine’s Day — romantic times. I find that my husband — and men in general — are much more attuned to this than women are.

CYNTHIA: Oh, Lesley, I want to know the men you know.

LESLEY: Am I wrong?

CYNTHIA: Oh, God, Aaron has just gone up very high in my esteem.

LESLEY: It’s not just Aaron. The idea that men court women, which they do, must come from the animal kingdom. And I do think that there’s some vestigial thing left over from wherever we came from. There’s a courting thing and Valentine’s Day is part of it. No?

LIZ: You mean where the male flares up to show his feathers?

LESLEY: Yes, that kind of thing. Exactly. I do. I don’t think women are romantic.

CYNTHIA: Really?

LESLEY: Are you romantic?

CYNTHIA: Oh, I’m very romantic. Well, I’m not involved right at the moment, so I’m not … I’m going to see my mother for Valentine’s Day, which is a different kind of heart trip.

LIZ: Oh, that’s sweet.

CYNTHIA: But with my son Spencer, so that’ll be fun. But you know, in the past I must say that I’ve had to drop an awful lot of hints that Valentine’s Day was coming in order to not have a bad feeling, a pouty kind of thing. I guess I didn’t pick very romantic guys. I felt like it was really up to me to plan the candlelight. I notice just from having a ten-year-old boy who’s on the cusp of all of this, I see the girls are much more aggressive with the boys than boys are with the girls. Now maybe that evens out later, but heavens, the boys just seem to be muddling along and the girls are very aggressive.

LESLEY: Well, that’s an age thing. How old is he now?

CYNTHIA: Ten, about 11.

LESLEY: At ten boys think girls are icky, don’t they?

CYNTHIA: And the girls don’t think the boys are — they’re really out there. I mean, heavens.

LESELY: Girls just grow up a little faster.

LIZ: I see something in Lesley’s argument. Valentine’s Day offers a guy a sort of cheap, quick, easy way to be adorable and pleasing, no matter what he does. Just so long as he remembers it, and some of them really come to the fore on Valentine’s Day. One guy in my office never forgets.

Read more about: Holidays, Love, Marriage, Men, Parenting, Relationships, Romance, Shopping, Valentine's Day

47 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Gals … men more romantic than women? I have yet to see one and it isn’t like I have been in a closet all my life. Women don’t need roses to “bloom” or cards with pre-written words. Those things smack of doing what should be done on those special days of the year. It is “follow the crowd” … and wise women know it. Women of whatever age want to HEAR the words said in their ear, feel the warmth of arms around them, and know — and we DO know — that what was said was warm and wonderful and meant to be. And WE know the difference … and some of us don’t settle for anything left. Valentines Day is a pre-prescribed day - period. It is not the time to do what the man has not done all year — which is giving “expressions of love” that more than ever, find eyes rolled behind his back. Where was his yesterday? Last month? Why didn’t he say “let’s get away for a weekend - or longer. Just the two of us?” and every other version of those words, said when the mood was right? To me, if he wants to be treated with love and longing for the next time - and the next time - watch his eyes, his pure delight in you, his wanting to share his innermost thoughts with you, and then - if me brings up the memories of the past times the two of you have shared - I would say this was LOVE in big letters. Unless you gals are desperate, take nothing less … because there are men out there still - the kind I am talking about — and your chances of “life everafter” will no longer be a Cinderella dream!!

By joan larsen on 02/12/2009 11:13 am

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Well, I had my romance with my dear husband that died 10 years ago. I have discovered that at this age, it’s very hard to find someone again. I guess that once you’ve tasted the cream, you’re not going to settle for the buttermilk. We knew how to appreciate each other, show gratitude and were great collaborators. And, we had many of the same opinions and similar tastes. You’ve read my words before, Joan. And, I am appreciative of those 15 wonderful years with Bill. And, so as I read through the judgemental comments in this section I guess they are written by people that don’t know what it’s like to be a certain age with memories. They are very hurtful, judgemental and uncalled for. Nuf’ said.

By Diana T on 02/12/2009 8:30 pm

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Men are appreciated for any gesture they make on Valentines Day. We become effusive with our praise, articulate all of all emotions. The man/significant other considers the hero worship his reward and remembers that feeling from year to year. Little do they know our expectations are actually so low……..they had us at a single read rose. Peace and grace

By beth willis on 02/12/2009 11:55 am

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Well well well, who would have thought Lesley Stahl was seriously engaged in romance! Many of my liberal friends have been divorced, or flat just can’t find a man to save there lives. But Lesley was right on this point, men want to be able to romance, wine and dine and chase the women in there lives. But its so sad to see that many of the liberal females are so “full of themselves” that more men can’t stand them. My suggestion is that if many of these women who claim to want to be in a real long term relationship need to allow the man to chase them. They need to show some patience and allow the guy to “want” to be with them and stop with the “am the boss” in the so called relationship attitude! Cut the crap and the drama! Be a woman, not a bycth!

By Lori F. on 02/12/2009 12:03 pm

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Lori, I soooo loved your post. Women are always complaining that they can not find a good man, while at the same time they aren’t worth a plug nickle in deserving of one. They’re so caught up with …..What did he mean by that, Why is he like this or that? They look for perfection when perfection does not exist with anyone. Far to many women are nothing little girls trying to play high school games acting as if they are the superior ones within relationships. Women need to find men that have morals and values, not men they can pick apart and demoralize over stupid things, like who left the toothpaste cap off, ect…..Men really do want to love and romance women and walk side by side with a recipricle loving partner, but far to many women want to do the leading. While a woman may want a ring on her finger……The last thing a man wants, is a ring in his nose.

By HA BIBI on 02/12/2009 12:25 pm

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Lori and Elaine, As a single guy in his mid-forties, spent 20 years with one woman, and in that position of being a single guy in the modern dating world, I can agree with you both. It’s almost like women’s expectations are determined by what they see on ‘Sex in the City’. Everyone is wanting ‘Mr. Big’ and they have in their minds that they deserve nothing less. They want the money, the lifestyle, everything that it can bring. He has to be wealthy, handsome, wealthy, sensitive, wealthy, metrosexual, wealthy, and oh yeah…wealthy. I have literally been asked for a financial statement within 30 minutes of meeting a woman. What women of the 70’s turned men into during those years has now come to backfire on them. They expected men to become something that men are not. They wanted them to become women with penises. And men, at that time thinking it was what was necessary to get into a woman’s pants, fell for it. They did what they were convinced they had to do. Especially in areas like New York, Boston, and the entire state of California. Women emasculated men. In recent years, men have woken up to the scam that was the ‘feminist movement’. You will find in the future, that fathers will be teaching their sons to never get married. It’s not worth it. Why would I go to college, start a career, acquire a home, savings, stuff…only to have it taken away and pay a woman alimony until she remarries due to arcane laws set up by liberal judges making policy from their benches? I teach my daughter not to respect one of these types of ‘men’ that women of the 70’s created. They have no backbone and are not their true selves. Look at how men, especially fathers, are portrayed on television. Have you ever watched a show like ‘Everybody Loves Raymond’? It’s just one example of how men are typecast in American society. The baffoon of a father who’s always wrong and is constantly having to apologize for his stupidity. What ever happened to a father being a source of stability, knowledge, and rugged individualism? Men have recently woken up and have decided to take back their testicles. Women have thought that they had control over men by having what men want. But, too often they forget that men are capable of walking away for someone else that doesn’t play those games. Passion with your partner is one of the greatest things about life. But, how can a man have passion for someone that has no respect for them? A man will want to be with a woman who makes him want to be a better man. But, bitching, nagging, and demeaning him because a woman can get away with it is not how you motivate him to be that way.

By Steve Douglass on 02/15/2009 5:25 pm

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Wow! Sour grapes or what!?!

By Kris Merrill on 02/15/2009 7:11 pm

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No, just relaying what I have observed.

By Steve Douglass on 02/15/2009 7:57 pm

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Observed!?! Why not participate in life? At least then, your comments are true.

By Kris Merrill on 02/15/2009 8:05 pm

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Participate in life? Kris, I participate in life. Just because I don’t fall into the feminist garbage of emasculating men and subjecting myself to their manipulation and guilt trip doesn’t mean I am either bitter or not participating. I date a lot. I have dated a lot since my divorce 8 years ago. I love women! They’re great! Until they want to start talking about everything that a guy should do to prove that he loves her. Or, telling him how he should do this or do that in order to be the kind of man she wants. And finally guilting him into marrying her after she delivers some stupid ultimatum. I’ve had women give me that crap, that they’re wasting their time if I won’t marry them. Fine, I won’t marry you…tear your ass out the door. NEXT!!! And there’s always a next. My observations come from my own experiences, Kris.

By Steve Douglass on 02/15/2009 9:29 pm

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May I repeat!?! Wow! Sour grapes!!!

By Kris Merrill on 02/16/2009 7:05 pm

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Being a happily married man with sons but also having my eyes open - I hate to break it to you but Steve Dougglas is absolutely correct. Ultimately it is a free market situation. The emasculating influence of feminists and especially of the school system has been to produce a large number of feminized, whimpy men. Some women prefer weak compliant men and will find mates with them. No problemo. Some women don’t and prefer men who are stronger, more individualistic, more inner directed and hence less compliant. Different strokes for different folks. But denying the reality of the feminization of men and its social consequences is just blindness. Having lived in California for many years, I think Steve is also quite accurate that the emasculation of men has been particularly carried to great lengths in that state. This may be good, may be bad, it is what it is. Personally, I think it disserves both genders but the beauty of the market is that such opinions are irrelevant since each person chooses what they want.

By Student Student on 02/21/2009 11:48 am

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A man will want to be with a woman who makes him want to be a better man. But, bitching, nagging, and demeaning him because a woman can get away with it is not how you motivate him to be that way. By Steve Douglass on 02/15/2009 6:25 pm Steve this statement pretty much sums it up! But I must ask……You state that you are dating ‘alot’ surely you have to have met some women that are not as described in your post and if that be the case why have you not become committed to them with an exclusive relationship? If you answer that you don’t want to get married again, I understand that but at the same time, I would certainly understand why a woman would not wish to stay without such a commitment, if that be what she is ultimately looking to do. For many women, they want the commitment of marriage as opposed to living with someone. They also feel that when just living together, it is far to easy to move on when times get rough for any reason. I can see folk’s living together if both are in agreement to such an arrangement…….See, what I’m trying to say is, the sad thing about people is that they have the attitude that marriage is no longer ‘til death do we part’, but rather an attitude of ‘untill we are sick and tired of one another’. Please don’t think I am judging you in any way as I am not, I’m not saying that you’re a bitter person but sense that there is some anger at the way you have been treated in the past and that you may go a little over board and miss out on an awesome opportunity to have a wonderful relationship with the right person. I jsay this, because there are alot of good women out there who don’t play these games. and unless you are a die hard individual opposed to marriage (nothing wrong with that) However, I also feel that once a person has determined that the person they are dating, is someone they can respect and grow with, I see no problem with each of them stating those things they feel a connection about, to one another. I believe that some people, can become so over protective of their feeling’s due to past hurts, that they are reluctant to show emotions and by doing so, they are putting up a wall of protection to the point that signals to the other, that they are not interested at all. You see, what I’m trying to say here is that all these manuvers and protections that people put in place, end up being ‘Games’ as well. People need to be genuine and honest in what it is they are looking for in a mate, while at the same time using good judgement and discernments, that allow for them to arrive to a conclusion, that the person they are interested in, is really what they are looking for. Hope all that made sense.

By HA BIBI on 02/15/2009 11:23 pm

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Elaine, Thank you for being so eloquent!

By Kris Merrill on 02/16/2009 6:18 am

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Elaine, I’m not at all opposed to the institution of marriage or myself getting married in the future. Not at all. But, especially from a man’s standpoint, it is something that has to be entered into with a lot more wariness than in the past. Most people don’t go into a marriage thinking that it will end. At least one person in the couple doesn’t. I’ve known a few people who went into marriage fully intending for it to end after a while. They were in it for financial gain or some other temporary need. I think the institution of marriage has been intruded on by the government, in the form of tax laws, healthcare policies, and have made a committment out of marriage that was never intended. And if the marriage dissolves, the government is right there to make it more miserable than the emotional situation already is. Now, I know that there are exceptions to what I’m about to say, but in most states the laws are very skewed against men. Especially when it comes to the children and finances. With all of that being said, it would have to be a very serious decision. And I would naturally ask myself, ‘If I have been living with someone for a long time, and we have been really and truly happy, why is it so necessary suddenly?’ Now, I know that when I was younger I wouldn’t have asked that question. I acted on impulse and passion in those situations. I would say that about 6 years ago, I was one of those people who was the ‘walking wounded’. But, that’s not the case now. I just happen to live in a place where the lifestyle and attitudes of people is not what I find desirable to spend my life with. In the future, I have plans to change that, I’m just waiting for my daughter to go off to college, which is about 5 years. Finding someone that the ‘chemistry’ is there is the problem. We actually find that ‘chemistry’ probably once, maybe twice in our lifetimes. And damned if that person may not already been married, lol! So, that means the experience goes on. I wouldn’t call it a search. Because searching for love and ‘chemistry’ seems to me like chasing your shadow. I just haven’t tripped over that one for me.

By Steve Douglass on 02/16/2009 4:17 pm