LESLEY: Just for the record, I knew Carl Brenner, and like and admired him. And was surprised by many things you had to say about him in the book. But mostly I was blown over by your honesty. I know you didn’t write this as a self-help book, but I think it can help someone who wants to reconcile with their sister or brother. Because what you’ve done is say: part of this is MY FAULT. You show that we have to turn inward and realize that we’re part of what’s perpetuating the bad blood.

There are times you make yourself look bad when you write about your own mean, little digs at Carl that kept the fire flaming.

MARIE: That was the hardest part. It nearly did me in. I had to hold the mirror up to myself. Not easy. I couldn’t run away from the facts: I was responsible for so much of what happened between us. I worried a lot about that. That got me nowhere. Only I had the power to change the relationship. I really really wanted and needed to do that. For me. Guess what? So did he.

The brother sister swamp had us both bogged down. It was a big hole in both our lives. Both of us wanted to change it. We were stuck in a lifetime of role playing. Getting unstuck was almost impossible. We finally did it. And it was huge. We became a team.

LESLEY: I know a woman in her 80s, a friend of my mother’s, who hadn’t talked to her sister in decades. She assumed if she called her, the sister would slam down the phone. But the ache of the lost years pulled so tight, this woman finally picked up the phone … and of course the sister, also in her 80s, was thrilled. And they’ve become friends. If you were to talk directly to someone who gets to be 40 or 50 or more, and still hasn’t resolved the issues with their sister or brother, what would you tell them to do?

MARIE: Make the call. Get on a plane. Don’t ask for permission. Just go. Nothing changes unless you stop asking permission. There’s an expression that people use: I wish, I will.

It’s not easy. There is a word I like to use: abundance. You have to hang in — sometimes in a flak jacket. Hang in there. It’s worth it. No one could have been more furious and shut down than my brother. I was convinced that he thought of me as the human flaw. But underneath all that anger and drama was something else: yearning. We are all so needy. He was. I was. I never thought I could write or talk about this.

LESLEY: The book is so many things. It’s a real drama, a great family saga. It’s one of the best written books, close to poetry. And it’s a fly-on-the-wall psychotherapy session. I’m not going to tell what happens in the end of the book, but I will say that you and Carl do come to a warm reconciliation. I guess my final question is: How much did that healing change you?

MARIE: I’m not sure if I can answer that. I do know that I feel differently — less certain — about a lot of things. I don’t need to understand everything. I’m just trying to let life be what it is. I know changing my relationship with my brother has a big role in this. To give up years of a perception that my brother was like this or like that … what a relief. I was so lucky that he let me in — that I began to see how much I learned from him. Gurus come in unlikely disguises. Now I think about advice he gave me almost every day. He said something that I carry with me: Go forward. He was determined never to waste a moment in his life. To see his life as a series of possibilities — new apples to breed. He said, any day that you get up and are not told to get your affairs in order is a great day. He was right about that too. We were different and that was okay. All of this has been a total astonishment. I learned that I was in awe of my older brother.

LESLEY: Thank you Marie. The book is Apples and Oranges. It is magnificent.