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Conversation | 11/10/2008 4:00 am

Marlo Thomas: Human Nature Needs to Be Regulated

© Shutterstock

Is there a silver lining to this economic meltdown? 

JANE: You know, I believe it will make us ready for change and make us get behind the changes that are going to be necessary. Hopefully they’ll be the right ones. We almost need a Roosevelt kind of New Deal. And I don’t think that would happen just out of the blue. I think it has to happen almost in a moment of crisis.

JOAN: Well, I think that it’s mixed because I think this country would be much more willing to take seriously energy conservation and global warming and the deficits that are, long term, really serious — a deficit of trillions and trillions of dollars and the reform of the entitlements that are going to be totally out of hand. I think you could talk more about those if the country were in good shape. I don’t think anyone who has no job and whose house is threatened is interested in hearing about sacrifice.

JANE: Oh, I see.

JOAN: So I think it’s a mixed blessing. I like the kind of cleaning the system out because we know it’s been way over the top for the rich. But the question is, will the country really be better off long term because of it? That remains to be seen.

MARLO: One of the things that fascinated me was when Greenspan spoke the other day and he said that he made a mistake. He thought that the banks would regulate themselves.

JANE: Well, this has always been his free-market kind of approach.

MARLO: I was so appalled with what he said. I thought, “My God, this man …”

JANE: I know.

MARLO: I thought he was better than that.

JANE: Childlike, wasn’t he?

MARLO: Really. “I thought they’d regulate themselves.” Oh, really?

JANE: Well, we shouldn’t respect people who are really that much influenced by Ayn Rand anyway. And I don’t know whether you’ve read The Shock Doctrine, but she talks about Milton Friedman and the free-market kind of approach to everything. The deregulation that’s been going on. I hope the Democrats won’t do too much on the other side, either. I hope it will be measured.

JOAN: How about the role of women in this crisis? That women should have been, could be and now might get into our economy and change the rules somehow? Who was that woman that was in the Clinton administration? She was very cautious but so was the whole Clinton administration. People … Reuben, Summers and this woman whose name I can’t think of. But the women who are on Wall Street and in the banks are so few that if they don’t go along with the guys they have no career. And I think it is the guys, basically with their testosterone of throwing the dice, throwing the dice and always thinking they’re going to come up snake eyes. But I just know from being close to that world through my husband that, boy, the woman better be more manly than the men if she wants to be taken seriously in her career. So you’d have to have an awful lot of women come in who might introduce more caution.

JANE: Well, who’s to say they’ll be better? Ergo, you know, Ayn Rand herself.

Read more about: Business, Economy, Finance, Meltdown, News

48 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

DeBúrca obj
Shock and awe”… damn right. That is all we get anymore. I heard Naomi Klein interviewed about “The Shock Doctrine” and it made so much sense that I immediately checked it out of the library. But I admit, I could not bring myself to read the book. The further I got, the more sense it made, but the more helpless I felt and I just couldn’t deal with reading about the “shock and awe” on top of living through it.
By DeBúrca obj on 11/10/2008 12:43 am
Delete This
DeB— My mother says the same thing, too. I like to know the mega-patterns worse and the best to recognize where things are shifting and how I can benefit. I think it’s a ‘metis’ thing in the ancient Greek sense. Looking at the entire landscape and pulling out what can work for you….I try to be connected but also off the grid if that makes sense. Love this new book on how social networks are changing the world. ‘Throwing Sheep in the Boardroom” here’s the vid on it. The book will be out Jan 19th. It’s more ‘user friendly’ than ‘Wikinomics” although loved that too. The author lives in France and is in my Facebook friends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubo1asE4l-o
By Delete This on 11/10/2008 12:25 pm
Mugsy Peabody
Very interesting discussion; thank you for this. The “human nature needs to be regulated” thing? Well, it IS regulated, constantly, 24-7. Advertising, for one thing. Constant barrage of “what we need” to be part of the pack. Churches, for another. The idea that we somehow live in a “garden of eden” in terms of the economy is so nonsensical, I shudder that anyone could honestly hold it. There is no area of human endeavor at this point which is NOT regulated. By someone. Somehow. Rupert Murdoch and the media, e.g. Nature seems to be the one thing that still responds with sense and sensibility, and the planet is giving us plenty of information, from which the majority of us are so far removed, we don’t even know when we’re in drought or famine. The best thing about this “economic downturn” is that people are being absolutely forced to think. That, in the end, is helpful, provided compassion and mercy are part of the mix.
By Mugsy Peabody on 11/10/2008 12:44 am
Frannie Em
Mugsy Great Post “it IS regulated, constantly, 24-7” That is the truth. The pressure of “world mind” always infiltrating our lives is sometimes too much to repel. I believe since the campaign started, the financial meltdown, and the election there has been an ever increasing pressure for the world to change. The world is changing, but individual people change slowly.
By Frannie Em on 11/10/2008 2:56 pm
Delete This
Suzanne here…I changed my avatar as in Carmel for the next month. Mugsy, as a cat lover, truly sorry to hear about your cat. “Sheconmics…if women had been paying attention we wouldn’t have been in this mess.” BS. All one has to do is read the threads on Palin, and look at how many women voted for that complete imbecil and know that is not true. Not paying attention? Speak for yourself, wOw. I called this in 1999 when the 1932 Glass Stegall Act was reversed and I told my mother to buy gold when it was then at $300, and then again when Bush Inc got in and totally deregulated derivatives knowing they’d totally scam the system as Bushes always do. I also called this meltdown for what it was when Liz Peek was still saying it was a minor blip, and that Kitty person, too. I pay plenty of attention to the economy, and not on the surface but underlying factors. Within two years the USD is going to be down 70% because of debt created by Bush, because we manufacture next to nothing, and because we are a consumer nation and the consumers are tapped out. Obama is going to attempt a FDR kind of WPA program, which is what we need, and great for him…hope it works. Rebuild the infrastructure and create 5M new jobs, and particularly the electrical grid to a ‘smart’ grid. In the meantime, I will be making as much $ as possible and putting them in well managed foreign money funds excepting China currency because that is going to bottom out , too. If McCain had been elected I’d say another Depression was 95% certain. Obama may stave it off because he is a lot smarter and is putting together a dream team of experts. But the fact remains that he is inheriting the worse financial crisis since Lincoln/FDR and it will not be easy at all to fix this incredibly complex mess that is global-wide. Thanks to the GOP and GWB/NeoCons.
By Delete This on 11/10/2008 1:13 am
Mommy Dearest
Brilliant, my dahling. As always, a wealth of information. Why don’t you create a column for women, my dear, and share your insights into the complexities of the financial world? With your educational and experiential pedigree, dear, I’m sure you could make a name for yourself, perhaps like that woman who called the 1987 crash.
By Mommy Dearest on 11/10/2008 9:31 am
Delete This
Gee, that sounds boring, esp since there are plenty who do it well. From Amazon review/ inside flap of Peter Schiff’s Feb 2007 “How to Profit from the Uncoming Economic Crash”: “The economic tipping point for the United States is no longer theoretical. It is a reality today. The country has gone from the world’s largest creditor to its greatest debtor; the value of the dollar is sinking; domestic manufacturing is winding down - and these trends don’t seem to be slowing. Peter Schiff casts a sharp, clear-sighted eye on these factors and explains what the possible effects may be and how investors can protect themselves. For more than a decade, Schiff has not only observed the U.S. economy, but also helped his clients reposition their portfolios to reflect his outlook. What he sees is a nation facing an economic storm brought on by growing federal, personal, and corporate debt, too-little savings, a declining dollar, and lack of domestic manufacturing. Crash-Proof is an informed and informative warning of a looming period marked by sizeable tax hikes, loss of retirement benefits, double digit inflation, even - as happened recently in Argentina - the possible collapse of the middle class. However, Schiff does have a survival plan that can provide the protection that readers will need in the coming years. From the Inside Flap “From both an economic and monetary perspective, the United States is a house of cards—impressive on the outside, but a disaster waiting to happen beneath the surface. In a relatively short period of time, the country has gone from the world’s largest creditor to its greatest debtor; the value of the dollar has declined; and domestic manufacturing has given way to non-exportable services. While these and other issues could potentially spell disaster for your financial well-being, the situation could also present unique opportunities—if you’re prepared. “For more than a decade, seasoned Wall Street prognosticator Peter Schiff has not only observed the U.S. economy, but also helped his clients restructure their portfolios to reflect his outlook. What he sees today is a nation facing an economic storm brought on by growing federal, personal, and corporate debt; too little savings; a declining dollar; and lack of domestic manufacturing. “Now, in Crash Proof, Schiff provides you with an insightful examination of the structural weaknesses underlying this impending economic meltdown, and discusses the measures you can take to protect yourself—as well as profit—during the difficult times that lie ahead. Using common-sense analysis, creative analogies, and easy-to-understand language, Schiff entertains as well as educates. While Schiff carefully details the grave economic forces pushing the United States closer to the edge, he also outlines a specific three-step plan that will allow you to preserve wealth and protect the purchasing power of the savings you have worked a lifetime to accumulate. Step #1: Rethinking Your Stock Portfolio: shows you exactly how to replace your endangered U.S. dollar holdings with a portfolio of foreign securities that are safer, significantly higher yielding, and appropriate for any investment objectives [ie like a well managed fund of foreigh currencies minus China’s] Step #2: Gold Rush: examines the various ways you can capitalize on the bull market in gold, as well as silver, and explains how these precious metals can add both safety and exciting growth potential to a conservative foreign stock portfolio [although now gold’s too high….if it edges back towards $300 I’m in] Step #3: Stay Liquid: discusses the importance of liquidity in times of financial uncertainty—from having enough money for living expenses to keeping a reserve of uncommitted cash that can be used to acquire assets at bargain prices Investing using conventional wisdom will not work during times of financial distress. That’s why Crash Proof has taken the reality of today’s economic situation into account as it offers you guidance. Filled with in-depth insights and expert advice, Crash Proof will help you survive and thrive during the coming years of economic uncertainty.” http://www.amazon.com/Crash-Proof-Economic-Collapse-Sonberg/dp/047004360…
By Delete This on 11/10/2008 12:38 pm
Mommy Dearest
Forgive me, my dear, as the last thing I would wish upon another is BOREDOM. Rather, I regret the lack of women represented in the short list of those who have the prescience to have accurately predicted this situation and the hudspah to call others in their inability to do so, dahling.
By Mommy Dearest on 11/10/2008 3:44 pm
cris bronson
another depression may be averted????? i don’t know where you live, but where i live, the economy didn’t just start to fail in the year 2000. michigan started getting nailed back in 1993 when NAFTA was signed. immediately jobs started disappearing — going to mexico, going to china, going to india — anywhere but michigan. who signed NAFTA? it wasn’t george w. it was signed by Clinton. this economic situation didn’t happen overnight. putting NAFTA in place may have been a good thing for other countries, but it was as if someone poked a huge hole in the bottom of a bucket full of water — the water rushes out. well, jobs have been rushing out. i remember clinton saying that only the low paying jobs would leave the country and high tech jobs would continue to grow. i guess engineering isn’t a high tech job, because those are the jobs that disappeared in michigan. Add insult to injury, michigan’s senator abraham claimed the u.s. didn’t produce enough engineers or scientists, so he pushed a bill through which permitted another 100,000 immigrants a year to enter the u.s. provided they had scientific or engineering degrees. what did u of m produce from its engineering school? chopped liver???? when people lose jobs, they can’t buy products or services and they can’t take care of their families or themselves. in the 1990s, michigan had as many as 650,000 people registered with MESC — the unemployment service for the state. open jobs? sometimes as many as 45,000. and many of those were agencies all trying to fill the same 10-15 positions. my friends — engineers like me — many have had to move to other countries or other states to find work, some are working at Home Depot. Silver lining? i don’t think losing one’s home to foreclosure because one no longer has a job and has gone through one’s life savings trying to keep body and soul together comes with a silver lining when the results are living on the street or bouncing from one friend’s home to another. george w. tried. that’s more than clinton did. and while obama may have the best intentions in the world, i don’t think he can turn this thing around by himself — he has to have the cooperation of congress as well as the cooperation of business leaders. what you are seeing around the country now started in michigan. some of our towns can’t afford police or fire and have to rent them. in some areas of northern michigan, school districts have literally shut down. life isn’t always fair, but it sure doesn’t have to be this wretched. i was an engineer. i DID save my money. i DID lose my home to foreclosure back in 2005. i DID live on the street. i DID go without medical help and without food. if this could happen to someone like me, it could happen to anyone.
By cris bronson on 02/07/2009 9:41 am
James the Game
The depression’s already here in Michigan, and much of Ohio and Pennsylvania. We were in a recession prior to II-Bush’s second election in November 2004. I’m heartened that Michigan Gov. Jen Granholm is one Obama’s panel of economic advisers, although she’s taken a lot of blame from some folks for the state’s economic crisis. I don’t know how much blame she deserves, if any, but the loss of 400,000 manufacturing jobs and the crippling of the automotive and automotive-supply industries stem directly from the lower costs to do business elsewhere. Labor is much cheaper in places like Mexico and China, where workers get paid a tiny fraction of what workers in the United States do. By paying their workers so little, such countries are able to lure American companies to move their businesses out of the U.S. It’s really a race to the bottom, in terms of lowering the standard of living here at home. Millions of jobs and billions of dollars are leaving this country, perhaps forevermore. One solution is that the U.S. should insist on better wages and treatment of workers by countries with which we do trade. This would help level the playing field, making America more competitive. Similarly, we should insist that trade partners place lower tariffs on the goods that we export into their countries. NAFTA and similar accords must be re-worked, so that America is not at a competitive disadvantage. Another solution would be to incentivize companies - our own and other nations’ - to do business in the U.S. by rewarding those that set up shop or stay on American soil. Marlo & Co. alluded above to infrastructure repairs and construction. Our roads and bridges are, in many places, antiquated and crumbling. We absolutely could put people to work by making these long-overdue improvements, and that would produce a spin-off effect for several industries, such as steel, construction, electrical, engineering and automotive. Michigan has the worst roads in the United States, hands down. You can tell when you’ve entered the state, because of all the potholes and bumps in the road. Fixing the roads/bridges would help tourism, reduce accidents (such as the collapse of the freeway bridge in Minnesota a couple years back) and save money (and lives) in the long run. Pumping billions of dollars into the American automobile industry is not a giveaway, in any way, shape or fashion. George Will wrote one of the most ridiculous columns in the history of “journalism” recently when he opined that we should let the Japanese and Germans take over the auto industry. How short-sighted. The auto industry directly or indirectly for one in every 10 jobs in the United States. Read that last sentence again. Also, the money invested in the auto industry today undoubtedly will have mega-benefits unforseen for this nation in the decades to come. Reduction of foreign-oil independence, which is humongous for both the economy and our national security. The green-energy, electronic plug-in vehicles will create a whole new wave of technology research and discoveries, in a number of industries, not to mention jobs. The United States is at a major crossroads in its history. Make no mistake about it. The time is now to prepare and invest for the 21st Century. As Hillary Clinton said at the Democratic Convention, “there’s not a minute to lose.”
By James the Game on 11/10/2008 2:06 am
Jane Wagner
Brilliant, James, as usual. I always like to get your wise take on things. You are enlightened and enlightening! Jane Wagner
By Jane Wagner on 11/10/2008 5:08 pm
James the Game
Thank you for the kind words, Jane. Sorry I didn’t get back to you earlier. I’ve been hired as news director at WILS/WXLA radio in Lansing, MI, and have rented a small efficiency apartment where I don’t have Internet accessibility. I do have it back here at my home in Grand Rapids, where I’m at only a few days of week. I hope you are doing dandy!
By James the Game on 11/13/2008 2:00 pm
Emcye Edwards
The party is so fucking over. And I worry that Barack is not getting enough sleep. First it was Hillary, then McCain and now Everything! Good gawd, y’all. I wonder how the people will feel when they see that the bailout was a ruse?Absolutely another shock and awe-leveraged greed grab. So far, none of that money is going to citizens or mortgage assistance. The banks are hoarding the cash to subsume cratered loan companies and banks. And the real story of what caused this crisis has yet to be unveiled. • Hazel Henderson and Prof. Mohammed Yunis ought to be consulted on the next restructuring of the economy; both are extremely knowledgeable about matching economic principles to real-world standards and NOT the virtual-worldy fun-house shifting patterns which so mesmerized Ayn Rand, Adam Smith, Greenspan, the Neocons, le Blanc Banque, et al. • I don’t want to hear one more peep from her, so if no one else will, I’m sending a copy of The Shock Doctrine to that voracious-reader-lady up North. • Am now enjoying (!) an old, but freshly relevant book, The Cash Nexus. It traces Greenspan’s unyielding faith in the “Invisible Hand” to a historical dependency on War as a defacto economic stabilizer. http://www.helleniccomserve.com/ferguson.html (It’s a great companion to Naomi Wolfe’s work, for which she should be rewarded with a Nobel Prize.) • Here, in this article Wolfe and John Cusack delve further into the moral failure of free market capitalism. Really concise: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-cusack/no-currency-left-to-buy-t_b_14… These times are deadly, people are suffering terribly, more will die - and some are killing themselves. It’s so breathtakingly GOOD that we have a new president who honors the Constitution and understands that it’s not war but innovation (forced by global warming and all it entails) that will effectively rework this planet. A new day - but, oy vey.
By Emcye Edwards on 11/10/2008 2:59 am
phyllis Doyle Pepe
THE CASH NEXUS-Niall Ferguson-August 9-01 Central conclusion: “Money does not make the world go round.” Rather, it has been political events-above all, wars that have shaped the institutions of modern economic life. Sex, violence, and power are “individually or together capable of over-riding money.” Ferguson is one of the most technically accomplished historians writing today. Millions of Americans today are liable to taxation without representation; unlike their colonial forebears, however their disenfranchisement is largely voluntary. (in 1990 just over 61 million Americans voted. 114 million paid taxes.) From my notes years ago. Liked what you had to say Emcye.
By phyllis Doyle Pepe on 11/10/2008 9:16 am
Delete This
I read Naomi Wolfe’s book. By however one wishes to characterize it, Doctrine of Chaos, Disaster Capitalism, Major General Smedley Butler WWI era book “War is a Racket” (and his revelations before Congress in 1933 of the “Business Plot” which was also documented by the BBC) the NeoCons/Leo Strassians uberized the agenda to keep 80% of people broke, struggling and impoverished while they steal everything and create a 20% elite. They took the blueprint they used in South America in the 70s and 80s in earlier administrations and around the world (Burma, South America, Indonesia, in Afghanistan during the Russian invasion,Iran-Contra, etc). Arundhati Roy described it in her World Social Forum speech in Porto Alegre, Brazil, on 27th January, 2003, when many of us were fighting the impending invasion of Iraq, predicting how disasterous it would be for America and the world, 1/2 the U.S. cheerlead for it. It’s a Wizard of Oz shell game. Always diverting attention over here, while they clean out everything over there, whereever ‘there’ is. Of course the bailout is another rout. When people are struggling to pay for food, health care, child care, gasoline they aren’t paying attention to riders on legislation passed on Friday nights in Congress that alter the fundamentals and will devastate lives. Especially when Fox News will cover with 24/7 broadcasts of something inane. Brent Bozell, George Norquist and other key GOP strategists met last weekend to redefine their ‘brand.’ It will be the same pattern with a new face/buzzwords and 1/2 the people will buy it because they don’t pay any attention to underlying historical patterns and draw the link of cause and effect in their own lives or global life. Arundhati Roy: “Corporate Globalization - or shall we call it by its name? - Imperialism - needs a press that pretends to be free. It needs courts that pretend to dispense justice. Meanwhile, the countries of the North harden their borders and stockpile weapons of mass destruction. After all they have to make sure that it’s only money, goods, patents and services that are globalized. Not the free movement of people. Not a respect for human rights. Not international treaties on racial discrimination or chemical and nuclear weapons or greenhouse gas emissions or climate change, or god forbid justice. So this - all this - is “empire.” This loyal confederation, this obscene accumulation of power, this greatly increased distance between those who make the decisions and those who have to suffer them. Our fight, our goal, our vision of Another World must be to eliminate that distance. “The good news is that we’re not doing too badly. There have been major victories. Here in Latin America you have had so many - in Bolivia, you have Cochabamba. In Peru, there was the uprising in Arequipa, In Venezuela, and the world’s gaze is on the people of Argentina, who are trying to refashion a country from the ashes of the havoc wrought by the IMF. In India the movement against corporate globalization is gathering momentum and is poised to become the, only real political force to counter religious fascism. ‘Many of us have dark moments of hopelessness and despair. We know that under the spreading canopy of the War Against Terrorism, the men in suits are hard at work. While bombs rain down on us, and cruise missiles skid across the skies, we know that contracts are being signed, patents are being registered, oil pipelines are being laid, natural resources are being plundered, water is being privatized, and George Bush is planning to go to war against Iraq. If we look at this conflict as a, straightforward eye-ball to eye-ball confrontation, between “Empire” and those of us who are resisting it, it might seem that we are losing. But there is another way of looking at it. We, all of us gathered here, have, each in our own way, laid siege to “Empire.” We may not have stopped it in its tracks yet but we have stripped it down. We have made it drop its mask. We have forced it into the open. It now stands. before us on the world’s stage in all its brutish, iniquitous nakedness. Empire may well go to war, but it’s out in the open now - too ugly to behold its own reflection. “Before September 11th 2001 America had a secret history. Secret especially from its own people. But now America’s secrets are history, and its history is public knowledge. It’s street talk. Today, we know that every argument that is being used to escalate the war against Iraq is a lie. The most ludicrous of them being the U.S. Government’s deep commitment to bring democracy to Iraq. Killing people to save them from dictatorship or ideological corruption is, of course, an old U.S. government sport. Here in Latin America, you know that better than most. Nobody doubts that Saddam Hussein is a ruthless dictator, a murderer (whose worst excesses were supported by the governments of the United States and Great Britain). There’s no doubt that Iraqis would be better off without him. But, then, the whole world would be better off without a certain Mr. Bush. In fact, he is far more dangerous than Saddam Hussein. So, should we bomb Bush out of the White House? It’s more than clear that Bush is determined to go to war against Iraq, regardless of the facts and regardless of international public opinion. “What can we do? We can hone our memory, we can learn from our history. We can continue to build public opinion until it becomes a deafening roar. … Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness - and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe. “The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling - their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability. “Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them. Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.” So how do we resist “Empire”?
By Delete This on 11/10/2008 11:54 am