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Conversation | 11/07/2008 5:00 am

Post-Election Postmortem: Did the Election Help or Hurt Women in Politics?

JOAN:  I think it will dismember it; she appeals to the majority of the base. The base is 28 percent of the American electorate. And that means all the intellectuals in the Republican party who have already turned on her will not support her. I think it would be cataclysmic for that party, but I don’t think it will happen. She may try, but my bet is she would not make it. And, of course, four years is a lifetime in politics. We have no idea what … who the country would see as a potential leader by then.

JANE: I don’t think she will last. I think she’ll fade. Or she’ll go back to Alaska. Maybe if she does something stunning there. But she does have charisma. And when I first saw her, I thought she was like Jean Arthur in topsy-turvy versions of her movies, didn’t you? I mean, she seemed to have charm. And her speech, I thought, was so well delivered that I thought she was a star.

MARLO: She is a star.

JANE: She is a star. Exactly.

MARLO: And she’s funny. And she’s brave and she’s bold.

JANE: She is brave. I know.

MARLO: She’s very brave and bold and she seems fearless.

JANE: We want that from a woman.

JOAN: She’s also ignorant and maybe stupid. I mean, many people who know her don’t think she’s terribly smart. She’s quick. She’s a quick study.

JOAN: She has no depth of interest in anything.

JANE: And I think her ambition is what made us turn on her. Her ambition to take this kind of job or to take this kind of position, knowing that she’s not prepared for it, or not right for it. 

MARLO: What about Dan Quayle? I mean, he wasn’t qualified or right. I wonder if anybody has the guts to say, “No, I’m not qualified.” Dan Quayle didn’t think he was.

JOAN: He had two terms in the Senate. I don’t think he saw himself as unqualified. He knew the issues a whole lot better than Sarah Palin. He had no presence.

JANE: He couldn’t spell potato and he couldn’t think on his feet

MARLO: But I don’t think he was an overly intelligent fellow. I kind of see them as the same, in terms of the grasp of the issues and ability … well, actually she’s a better speaker.

JOAN: She has a lot more presence. He was never a star. She’s a real star.

JANE: Do you think she tarnishes, enhances or has any long-standing impact on the idea of a woman as a president or vice president? I don’t think she’s helped the cause.

MARLO: I think in the wake of Hillary, Palin’s a non-issue. I just think that Hillary is such a qualified human being, whether you want her for president or not, whether you’re a Republican or Democrat, but she’s a very qualified human being, and held her own on that stage with all those guys, all those men, in all those debates. Sarah Palin could never do that.

JOAN: Yeah, but I think she has moved the needle, as Hillary did. I think it will be far more common, in the future, to have a woman on the ticket if the man is a candidate; that will not be as rare as it has been. And I think both Hillary and Sarah in particular, oddly enough, because she came out of nowhere, whereas we all knew Hillary. She wasn’t exactly the woman candidate. She was “Hillary Clinton.”

272 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

T P
Wow 28 million were willing to take a chance on Palin however just 18 million for Clinton. I think it’s safe to say Palin takes the prize and she is only 44! Clinton is 61 correct?!
By T P on 11/08/2008 3:56 pm
margaret britt
I wonder how Republican women in elected positions of power would respond to this question; Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Lisa Murkowski, Olympia Snow and Susan Collins come to mind. I think that even Condoleeza Rice and Karen Hughes must have been distressed by McCain’s selection of an attractive, aggressive woman for only those traits. When it came to really putting the “Country First” he put his political ambitions first and pandered to the people in his party determined to keep women in their “place”.
By margaret britt on 11/07/2008 11:14 am
joan larsen
Sorry to turn this discussion on its heel - but I have done it before so I will say my piece: When we are talking about who should be president (or VP for that matter), we should NOT be talking about “women” as we are. Aren’t I correct in saying that we want the best qualified PERSONS in the White House protecting our interests? If your answer is “yes”, then gender should not be thrown into the equation at all. Those of you who have done as I have - interviewed people for high positions - want to see, first of all, that they have all the experience and CREDENTIALS to assume such responsibility. We then look at the many ways that they will relate to the public and their subordinates - and if they pass muster. There is more, of course. But never have I looked at gender when making such a decision. If you understand so far, it is how they have grown from their past experience (which should be major), in government - what prior connections(!!) that are very broad based have been developed and cemented firmly so the plans can take action with confidence, the steps they have taken to achieve the place they are in now, and then - well, of course there is more. Vision is important but is no good without firm direction — and many have only one or the other. If you haven’t met such people, well - I have. They talk a good talk, but when it comes to knowing how to move into action, many fail. As we are talking government here, we are seeing more and more women gaining high office. Of course, we are proud. But I am hoping that what they have achieved is not because of high support of women because it is “a woman”, but because her credentials and the meld that makes her the best candidate overrides her possibly male competition. Again, in government as well as business, we are seeing many many women moving to the top rungs. They have worked their way up, been exemplary and have proven themselves “winners”. We will see more — as we women believe in ourselves and our capabilities as never before. There is no doubt that a woman will get there. Hillary at the end of the campaign suddenly became a “winner” - just a little too late. She found her pace and style — and she was well-grounded in experience and knowledge in the Washington crowd. I believe what we will be seeing - and trust me and watch closely - is that women in Congress are being given more roles and more challenges to “test” them, and a few are being groomed for high office - and being taught what the boys in the back room have formerly held sacred to men. This rounds out the experience factor for a woman and also lets her on the inside of the Congressional world, making close relationships with the giants who have been around. So I think we can expect to see the exceptional women in government - and not all are - being well-grounded to assume command. Personally, I think that Senator Amy Klobuchar (D. MN) will bowl the future generation of women now in higher positions over. She’s got it all - and has the ear of the ones closest to the White House. They are watching. Perhaps, you may want to also. BUT - to the point again - let’s cut gender out. Let’s not think about getting a female in the top slot so “we can be proud of our sex”. Instead, in a world torn apart, we MUST have the best-qualified PERSON protecting us. I think that perhaps that - from what I am closely watching - that the best qualified woman we have is having a learning curve at present, having higher education on the job and absorbing it well, and we may see that the PERSON best for the presidency will be a woman. So far, no one has complained about my crystal ball.
By joan larsen on 11/07/2008 11:22 am
Sarah N.
Away with logic and sensical behavior. Love, Women on this board who practice reverse sexism and see absolutely nothing wrong with it. /sarcasm off
By Sarah N. on 11/07/2008 2:20 pm
Wine Warrior
Why we do what we do: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/tony_robbins_asks_why_we_do_what_we_d… Barack Obama just proved the American Dream is alive and well for those who prepare, plan, are results oriented and consistently work hard toward a goal. A black man is supposedly racist America just became the most powerful person in the world. The difference between he and GWB is Barack is extremely intelligent and classy, and he didn’t have anything handed to him by rich establishment parents.
By Wine Warrior on 11/07/2008 12:31 pm
I.M. Kane
Hillary Clinton helped herself and women immensely. Yes, she lost the election. However, her cross-country mission to unite the party and promote an Obama presidency, along with helping downticket candidates cannot be overlooked. The success of the Democratic party is her success as well. Her approval ratings show this, as they are now higher than when she entered the presidential campaign. Hillary will have even greater influence going into the 111th Congress, and she remains a role model for millions. I find it difficult to argue how Sarah Palin helped herself or women in general. Yes, she is a star. And I suppose she does have charisma and a certain sexuality, but so does Paris Hilton. While I think it’s unfair to compare Palin to Clinton when it comes to understanding the issues, it is rather disappointing how little depth of knowledge Palin displayed and how comfortable she is with that lack of knowledge. Perhaps there are those who see Palin as a role model too, but I question what they base that on.
By I.M. Kane on 11/07/2008 12:50 pm
Sarah N.
The irony is that Paris Hilton in her presidential video series did a better job of convincing me that she knew what the heck she was talking about than anything I heard out of Sarah Palins mouth the entire election season.
By Sarah N. on 11/07/2008 2:24 pm
Wine Warrior
Sarah, You are right….Paris Hilton meant to me amusing but she is infinitely better qualified than Palin and her values are better too. Palin is a knuckle-dragger creationist.
By Wine Warrior on 11/07/2008 2:42 pm
Marjorie C.
Wine: Palin is a knuckle-dragger creationist. And you are… her sister.
By Marjorie C. on 11/08/2008 11:38 am
Delete This
Marjorie, Suzanne here, wanted to change avatar as in Carme-by-the-Seal for the next month on vacation…….I am NOT Palin’s sister….or anything to her. She is totally repulsive to me. If blond/white me is sister to anyone it is to Michelle with whom I share values and beliefs. Please do not decide who others are ‘sister’ too. I can’t stand Palin….she’s nothing but a horror show to me.
By Delete This on 11/09/2008 11:20 pm
Delete This
That’s ‘Carmel-by-the-Sea’ shouldn’t talk on the phone, watch TV and blog at the same time.
By Delete This on 11/09/2008 11:21 pm
Kay Sara
I think it helped. We cannot now be rejected because others view females as not serious capable contenders. I do differ with an earlier comment that said Hillary broke the glass ceiling. Not until a woman is elected and holds that office will that glass ceiling be broken. Cracks- yes. Broken- no.
By Kay Sara on 11/07/2008 12:55 pm
Mugsy Peabody
Kay Sara, you would be the one who knows. Hope this finds you well. All best, Mugs.
By Mugsy Peabody on 11/08/2008 2:56 am
Kay Sara
HI Mugsy. Thank you!. I hope you are feeling well. and time is healing your loss of your kitty At the age of 53 I am redefining my life and it idealing with the mpacts that this new definition has on my ideas of who and what I am about. So although I feel like I have been knocked off of my feet, I anticipate that it will feel sooooo good when I do get back up - a better person than ever. My best to you, Mugsy, and the women on Wow. You all provide needed and appreciated support and strength to your female peers.
By Kay Sara on 11/09/2008 9:40 am
E Joyce Moore
Just as with any candidate, regardless of gender or race, one has to earn allegiance and be viewed objectively. I thought Palin hurt the efforts of women in politics because she was not selected for the right reasons, she is not qualified and women initially bought in to that selection without taking a look at who she really was and what she really stood for. This is a woman who is used to getting by on looks and timing, not qualifications and experience. I would also like to see women run the course of a campaign without drifting into the dark side of behavior. Both Clinton and Palin did so and when you play in the dirt, you just end up looking dirty.
By E Joyce Moore on 11/07/2008 1:05 pm