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Conversation | 06/04/2008 8:45 am

Lesley Stahl, Cynthia McFadden: Sexism Went Unchallenged During Hillary Campaign

© AP

Editor’s Note: wowOwow welcomes Cynthia McFadden to our lineup of wise women who are making this site the gathering place for informed women on the web. Cynthia is at the top of a distinguished career in journalism, currently serving at ABC News on both “Nightline” and “Primetime Live.” Here, one of wowOwow’s founders, Lesley Stahl, interviews Cynthia on the Hillary Clinton campaign in its final days. Welcome, Cynthia! And more on Cynthia to come from our CEO Joni Evans … but we wanted our community to see this on this historic morning.

LESLEY: Cynthia, welcome to wOw — a floating, non-stop ladies’ lunch! I am delighted that your maiden voyage on our site is a conversation with moi! First, because I always love talking to you, but also because you’ve been spending a lot of your time on this campaign, my favorite topic.

Let’s discuss one of the more distressing issues that has reared its head: sexism. Many of the women who support Hillary are deeply upset and angry at what they perceive as the same old “double standard” that you and I have heard about – and maybe lived — for decades now. In your reporting, have you seen what they are talking about? And more personally, have you felt this misogyny in your own career?

CYNTHIA: As for my career, yes, in my first job as a journalist my boss told me I’d be paid half of what the man who preceded me was being paid. Why? He had an ex-wife and child to support. As for the campaign, yes, I think in ways both subtle and direct sexism has played a role. But it is so ingrained in our culture; it goes largely unnoted and unchallenged. The press is very good at pointing out and decrying racism, thank God, but sexism washes over most of us much of the time.

LESLEY: You’ve interviewed Hillary at least five times during the campaign. We can legitimately say you’re a Hillary expert. I’ve seen a lot of criticism that she has “used” sexism as a campaign ploy to whip up her supporters. Is that the way you see it? And – can I ask you to reflect on your own experience? Do you think this is “helpful” for women? I could have been wrong, but I have gone through my career determined never to come off as a “victim” or to even allow myself to think that my falling short was anything but my own fault.

CYNTHIA: "Victim" isn’t a good place to be. And, like you, I have tried very hard not to ask for special anything (even when the guys do) for fear that somehow I will be seen as expecting or wanting special treatment. And I should say that expecting equal treatment, I have, by and large, received it.

But let me be a bit more specific about my observations … Clinton struggled to find the right tone in her candidacy and she found herself either ridiculed after the famous New Hampshire "cry" as manipulative and girly or lambasted as cold and, well, pardon me, but it rhymes with rich. As retired general Tony McPeak (an Obama supporter) said in an interview after New Hampshire, "Obama doesn’t go on television and have crying fits."

An op-ed piece in a Midwestern newspaper referenced her "frequent wearing of dark pantsuits to conceal her bottom-heavy figure." I am unaware of any similar attention focused on the male behinds in the race.

As for her trying to "use" her sex or charges of "sexism" in the campaign, my observation was talking about gender made her very uncomfortable for some of the same reasons I think we avoid it. She knows "whining" isn’t appealing, even if there are legitimate concerns behind it.

At one point, I asked her why she hadn’t given the “gender speech,” as Obama had done with race. She said she didn’t feel she had to give that speech. That every day she was living the gender speech … just by standing up and saying, "I am the best person to be commander in chief."

216 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

immoddesta godessa
Brooke, The brilliant Doris Kearnes Goodwin points out in “team of Rivals” That Wm. Seward was early on the presumptive nominee for the fledgling Republican party! What happened? Over confidence and Lincoln’s humble strategy. There was turmoil throughout L’s term. Chase and others often positioning themselves for the eventual undoig of Abe. But Seward became the greatest asset Lincoln had at his side. It’s an enormous blow to this candidate, but she is wise, and seasoned, and respected, so she will have to find a way to purchase Alaska again. She’s not finished by any stretch. Let’s see how these stars can align and move this nation forward! PEACE NOW ! ! !
By immoddesta godessa on 06/05/2008 10:08 am
Barbara
Corner - you are incorrect that Hillary was the first professionally active first lady. Look at what Eleanor Roosevelt did. She was the model for activism
By Barbara on 06/05/2008 7:27 am
E .
anne - “If he screws up once”? Please clarify who, if anyone, you are quoting. I know that this did not come from me but by not pointing it out makes it appear as if any one or all of us here who have spoken up about the misogynistic stratagem against Hillary Clinton might have said it. Also, I am not “rah-rah-ing for her no matter what”. I am speaking up against hate here. I am not delusional or suffering from sour grapes. The primary is over - that she lost is not the over-riding point being made by those of us who feel that media reports saying that she was badly treated by the media and many politicians during the primary come a day late and a dollar short. It is not about the win or lose it is about choosing to be silent when knowing there is ongoing abuse.
By E . on 06/05/2008 9:05 am
rocky rocky
Elizabeth Flynn — I was responding to the last part of Carol L.’s post, which is: Carol L. - 6/4/2008 9:29 PM “… I just hope Obama is more than just fancy words. Just because he voted against the war does not automatically give him a win in the general election. But, given Bush’s record, this is his election to win. If he screws up once, or Democrats put their foot in their mouths again, a McCain victory will not be far behind.” With respect to Elizabeth Flynn, it was only that one word … It seems that the zeitgeist here is alertness to misogyny (which is fine and good), but when either blatant or subtle racism — whether malicious or not at all intentional — is pointed out, harangues of snarls and snide remarks follow. Look, I’m not particularly good as a speech-police person … but, I suppose you can say I know how you feel about those “who choose to be silent.” When I read the word “once,” I felt I could not do so. Sen. Obama will make lots of mistakes, as anyone would and has in such a race. I want us all to be alert not only to the “sweeties” and such, but to the quality of the candidates’ thinking on the issues of the day. So much has changed in this world. I feel it is so important for us to be really open … to care so much that we somehow put aside our habits of intolerance and l i s t e n
By rocky rocky on 06/06/2008 9:26 pm
rocky rocky
Lordy, typos. I meant “With respect to Carol L. …” and to you, too, Elizabeth.
By rocky rocky on 06/06/2008 9:28 pm
Teresa Proctor
Until we as women begin to acknowledge that sexism is alive and well in this country, we can not move forward, address the issue and make changes. Men and Women are different, in their thoughts and feelings this was the design of a higher power. Unfortunately, we as women have come to believe, and maybe it has been true, that in order to be successful in a male dominate society that we must connect stronger with our own male energy. Until we as women are truly willing to address the sexism issue in this country and the rest of the world, we can not move forward to restoring the balance. I feel we need to learn to respect each sex, for the gifts they bring to the planet. Balance is what is needed throughout our environment and the planet. Look around you, balance is not about race or religion, I believe it is about “vision” (male energy) and grounding/nurturing (female energy). I believe that the US and the World at large is in great need of both, thus Balance. This is a great opportunity to start looking for the truth and speaking the truth in order to start restoring the Balance.
By Teresa Proctor on 06/05/2008 11:22 am
Maurine H
I have a serious question for all the women who are crying “foul” and “sexism” with respect to Sen. Clinton’s defeat. What is it that caused her to remain with a man who publicly humiliated her, treated her in the most sexist, hurtful, blatantly disrespectful manner possible, causing not only her but also their daughter real pain? Why did Sen. Clinton select a male campaign manager and staff her campaign with men as well as women? Are these the decisions of a liberated, enlightened feminist? The shoe doesn’t seem to fit. So before labeling the entire country as “sexist” it seems appropriate to look at the actions of the candidate herself.
By Maurine H on 06/05/2008 11:31 am
Buh- Bye
huh? that logic doesn’t make sense
By Buh- Bye on 06/05/2008 12:01 pm
Deni G
Wait a minute Maurine. What caused her to remain with Bill is her damn business. That is what feminism means. You get to make your own choices and not be condemned as a woman because of them. You want to stay. I respect your choice. You want to go I respect your choice. It is about having choices and having those choices respected. That she chose to stay, has nothing to do with her as a candidate. The fact that she has fought for women does. She chose the people she felt were the best choices for her campaign. I question those choices, but not because of their gender. We do not do ourselves any service by trashing Hillary and the way she has helped all women. Please do not jump on that bandwagon! The country is sexist. The country is racist. How far will we rise above this? Certainly not far, by denying it. And we will only roll backwards by pitting each against the other. This is the oldest trick in the book. I refuse to be party to it. I want change in this country. And that will not happen as long as we act as if each other is the enemy. I have my reasons for supporting Obama over Clinton. I don’t post them, because all that ever happens on this site, is preaching to the choir. Every post for one candidate just brings page after page of slashing and burning that candidate, followed by slashing and burning of the other. It is not about learning, listening, caring about the feelings, needs and wants of each other. It is not about reaching across to each other in a country that is decimated at every level. It has become about furthering that decimation. It is blind. It is stupid. It continues the status quo, that enabled us to reach this point in our history. And if we don’t change our conversations and our topics, then things will only get worse. What do we want? How can it happen? How can we help it happen?
By Deni G on 06/05/2008 12:47 pm
Elizabeth Bennett
Wow, Deni! Great post!
By Elizabeth Bennett on 06/05/2008 1:34 pm
Brooklyn Gal
Maurine, Many of us have said that her campaign bears the blame. However, the media did treat Obama differently while Edwards got no coverage and Hillary was treated to sexist jokes and commentaries. That’s the difference!
By Brooklyn Gal on 06/05/2008 11:45 am
Maurine H
Carol - Yes, I understand that the media showed bias, but it was not all in favor of Obama. Depends upon which channel you watched or which radio station you listened to. What I am saying is that Senator Clinton herself is no shining example of liberated womanhood, and that all the women who are so indignant about her treatment ought to pause and take a look at her behavior and the example she set for her daughter by staying with her husband. As for her run for the Presidency - I think it was terrific, historic, and that she will have her place not only in the Obama administration, but in history as well. I also think that the outbursts of former President Clinton were in part responsible for his wife’s defeat. Her campaign was badly managed and badly run. Her message changed from week to week along with her presentation of that message. She ran out of money because she had an archaic fund-raising method. It’s not all about sexism.
By Maurine H on 06/05/2008 12:07 pm
E .
Maurine, I say this with respect - I do not understand what your point is. Are you saying that Senator Clinton is to blame for the sexist stratagem used against her?
By E . on 06/05/2008 12:43 pm
Maurine H
No, Elizabeth, I’m not saying that that all sexist behavior towards Senator Clinton is her fault. I’m saying that she, herself, has set an example for women by not fighting the sexist treatment she received at the hands of her husband - before the entire world. Before I go off like a rocket denouncing the media for treating her without respect, I would ask why she didn’t respect herself enough to dump her blatantly cheating husband. The only answer I can think of is that she felt that to do so would have compromised her political aspirations. It was a calculation that backfired.
By Maurine H on 06/05/2008 1:18 pm
Elizabeth Bennett
Oh I don’t know Maurine. I have nothing but respect for Eleanor Roosevelt, and she didn’t dump her husband. I also respect Jacqueline Kennedy, and she didn’t dump her husband. I could go on and on. Senator Clinton said in her book that she stayed with him because she loved him and realized her life would be less rich if she left him. That works for me. I don’t think it was a political calculation. She says she loves the guy.
By Elizabeth Bennett on 06/05/2008 1:47 pm