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Conversation | 06/04/2008 8:45 am

Lesley Stahl, Cynthia McFadden: Sexism Went Unchallenged During Hillary Campaign

© AP

Editor’s Note: wowOwow welcomes Cynthia McFadden to our lineup of wise women who are making this site the gathering place for informed women on the web. Cynthia is at the top of a distinguished career in journalism, currently serving at ABC News on both “Nightline” and “Primetime Live.” Here, one of wowOwow’s founders, Lesley Stahl, interviews Cynthia on the Hillary Clinton campaign in its final days. Welcome, Cynthia! And more on Cynthia to come from our CEO Joni Evans … but we wanted our community to see this on this historic morning.

LESLEY: Cynthia, welcome to wOw — a floating, non-stop ladies’ lunch! I am delighted that your maiden voyage on our site is a conversation with moi! First, because I always love talking to you, but also because you’ve been spending a lot of your time on this campaign, my favorite topic.

Let’s discuss one of the more distressing issues that has reared its head: sexism. Many of the women who support Hillary are deeply upset and angry at what they perceive as the same old “double standard” that you and I have heard about – and maybe lived — for decades now. In your reporting, have you seen what they are talking about? And more personally, have you felt this misogyny in your own career?

CYNTHIA: As for my career, yes, in my first job as a journalist my boss told me I’d be paid half of what the man who preceded me was being paid. Why? He had an ex-wife and child to support. As for the campaign, yes, I think in ways both subtle and direct sexism has played a role. But it is so ingrained in our culture; it goes largely unnoted and unchallenged. The press is very good at pointing out and decrying racism, thank God, but sexism washes over most of us much of the time.

LESLEY: You’ve interviewed Hillary at least five times during the campaign. We can legitimately say you’re a Hillary expert. I’ve seen a lot of criticism that she has “used” sexism as a campaign ploy to whip up her supporters. Is that the way you see it? And – can I ask you to reflect on your own experience? Do you think this is “helpful” for women? I could have been wrong, but I have gone through my career determined never to come off as a “victim” or to even allow myself to think that my falling short was anything but my own fault.

CYNTHIA: "Victim" isn’t a good place to be. And, like you, I have tried very hard not to ask for special anything (even when the guys do) for fear that somehow I will be seen as expecting or wanting special treatment. And I should say that expecting equal treatment, I have, by and large, received it.

But let me be a bit more specific about my observations … Clinton struggled to find the right tone in her candidacy and she found herself either ridiculed after the famous New Hampshire "cry" as manipulative and girly or lambasted as cold and, well, pardon me, but it rhymes with rich. As retired general Tony McPeak (an Obama supporter) said in an interview after New Hampshire, "Obama doesn’t go on television and have crying fits."

An op-ed piece in a Midwestern newspaper referenced her "frequent wearing of dark pantsuits to conceal her bottom-heavy figure." I am unaware of any similar attention focused on the male behinds in the race.

As for her trying to "use" her sex or charges of "sexism" in the campaign, my observation was talking about gender made her very uncomfortable for some of the same reasons I think we avoid it. She knows "whining" isn’t appealing, even if there are legitimate concerns behind it.

At one point, I asked her why she hadn’t given the “gender speech,” as Obama had done with race. She said she didn’t feel she had to give that speech. That every day she was living the gender speech … just by standing up and saying, "I am the best person to be commander in chief."

216 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Maurine H
Elizabeth - that she loves him may be true; obviously we’ll never know for sure. But neither Mrs. Roosevelt nor Mrs. Kennedy was mounting a Presidential campaign. (Though I certainly would have voted for Eleanor in heartbeat!!). Also, neither President’s affairs were made public and neither was impeached during his Presidency. The times and circumstances were much different as were the wives. It’s not so much that I dislike Senator Clinton as it is that I think the sexism issue wasn’t the only problem with her campaign and I seriously doubt that it was responsible for her defeat. I still think she has a major role to play in the next administration and she will, no doubt, be calling the shots for what that role is. She still has plenty of political clout.
By Maurine H on 06/05/2008 2:39 pm
mary lou s
so maurine, will you judge mccain on how he handled his first marriage and divorce? given what you said, that is only right. i reject your intrusion of the marriage vow into presidential politics. it is the business of the married parties. i would point out that clinton has a long, successful marriage while mccain has a broken marriage and a sort of heiress chase. obama has been true to his wife.
By mary lou s on 06/05/2008 9:45 pm
Maurine H
As far as I’m concerned John McCain is a verbal abuser who called his wife a “c….” in front of reporters. I have absolutely no respect for him and would never vote for him. The blow-up over sexism on this site focused on how Senator Clinton was treated by the media. I don’t disagree with that, although I do not think it is the reason she lost the nomination. Her supporters are surely too loyal and intelligent to allow any media bias to sway their votes. My discussion regarding the Clinton marriage is that, despite being publicly humiliated by the then President, Sen. Clinton chose to remain with her husband. As a feminist, I would have dispatched him promptly. My opinion, and I am allowed to express mine here, too, is that her political ambitions outweighed any other considerations. That is just an opinion and I happen to think there is merit in it.
By Maurine H on 06/05/2008 10:21 pm
lawrie taylor
Just because a voter, man or woman, does not support Hillary for president does not make him or her automatically a sexist. I am a lifelong Democrat, female, and voted twice for Bill Clinton, the first time also because his intelligent lawyer wife seemed to be such an asset. With the passing of time I have come to see Hillary as an unscrupulous, unprincipled person who will say or do anything, including bending the truth, to win votes. I felt her campaigns, for senator and for president, were always about putting herself first, more than the issues, policies or principles on the table. I hope she will work to unite the Democratic Party to win back the White House in November. I certainly hope she is not on the ticket. I have never voted for her and never will, not even in November 2008.
By lawrie taylor on 06/05/2008 12:55 pm
Deni G
It is up to each of us to work to unite the Democratic party and win the White House. And when we trash and disrespect Hillary, we trash and disrespect her supporters. And that is clearly working against unity. Unity is ours to achieve. It will not be achieved for us by some mythical outside force, while we carry on like bratty children, throwing rocks at each other.
By Deni G on 06/05/2008 1:00 pm
E .
lawrie “Just because a voter, man or woman, does not support Hillary for president does not make him or her automatically a sexist.” I do not believe that anyone here made that claim. Please support your post and point out any single post that suggests that a vote against Hillary is evidence of sexism. That people have the right to support any particular candidate is not in question here. That people have the right to not like Hillary Clinton or her politics is not in question here.
By E . on 06/05/2008 1:27 pm
Brooklyn Gal
Elizabeth, I am sorry but I cannot judge the woman because she stayed with her husband. That’s a private matter even if I don’t agree with it. Spitzer’s wife has not left him (yet). I am not sure if you wrote a comment way back also disparaging her as a mother because Chelsea’s grandmother helped raise her. Well, my grandmother also watched me when my mom worked. And I would rather be with my grandmother than some child-care center or nanny. Many professional women have help with their kids. Lawrie, On one hand you want her to work for the party, on the other hand you don’t like her. I am not a fan of hers either and she is my senator. But I want the Dems to win. And Hillary has many supporters. But being angry with their choice is not healthy either. I don’t get mad at my friends who are voting for McCain because it’s not worth losing the friendship. And in this case, not worth losing an Obama victory. If Clinton is to have any part in Obama’s campaign, I think your point of view about her will just fuel the Republicans and will not unite Democrats. What if Obama does give her the VP spot (again, what if), people like you will not vote the ticket?? The way I don’t appreciate the age jokes and media references about McCain’s age, I don’t appreciate the sex jokes about Clinton. You may not think the issue was sexist, but there was definite bias against from many so-called liberal media (Huffington, Politico, MSMBC, Charlie Rose, The NYTimes, etc, etc.) because, like you, they also hate her. Believe me, if she becomes part of the ticket, then they will start to pander in her favor.
By Brooklyn Gal on 06/05/2008 2:31 pm
Kathrine Gluvna
Carol, I’m not sure the ‘so-called liberal media’ will pande to HRC if she is on the ticket. I think they will still insult her and try to drag down the whole ticket. I can’t remember a time when the news media singled out one politian for such derision. Well, maybe Nixon.
By Kathrine Gluvna on 06/05/2008 2:57 pm
Brooklyn Gal
Kathrine, Then that’s something Obama must also weigh. But I think the “media” wants him to be president. However, I would agree with you after such a win. They will find fault with her as a VP to try to get her to resign or not to run 8 years. I know many people feel glee over this loss the way they felt it when Spitzer was forced out. (I did not like Spitzer, so I was happy). But is now the time to vent about her if she is going to be a major force in his election? Funny, on another thread here, some people feel “compassion” for Roman Polanski who fled the country rather than face a trial, yet he went on to make wonderful films and find new loves. I don’t know if I feel compassion for Hillary because she knew what she was doing and why she wanted it, and she refused to face defeat until all angles were played. She had a great opportunity to move ahead of Obama after Rev. Wright resurfaced and Obama did not come off well after the ABC debate (and the media put the blame on ABC rather than praise Hillary’s performance and felt bad for him because he was tired). Instead, she chose to capture the spotlight with a phony gas issue. But I do feel it for her supporters. And any future attacks against Hillary will hurt the Dems in November. (same with Hillary supporters who now claim they will support McCain if she is not on the ticket).
By Brooklyn Gal on 06/05/2008 4:17 pm
Brooklyn Gal
Hillary does not want the VP position. So much for all those who predicted she was going after this. I think she realized if she wasn’t chosen, that wouldn’t look good for her and would disappoint her supporters. A very gracious move. Hopefully this will be the last time we see a Hillary question for some time. Hey WOW. How ‘bout Household Hints. Today I tried the denture tablet trick and it cleaned the bowl own its own. Just drop in and walk away. Now I am looking for a tablet than can dust, vacuum, do laundry, iron and everything else.
By Brooklyn Gal on 06/05/2008 6:38 pm
mary lou s
carol, you are an example (out of many) of a woman who would do her own house cleaning, probably out of pride. women are expected to do that. be proud of yourself.
By mary lou s on 06/05/2008 9:53 pm
Mugsy Peabody
If it is such a source of pride, why don’t men do it?
By Mugsy Peabody on 06/07/2008 7:35 pm
Linda Clark
It used to be that hubby would get out the ironing board and go at it, all the while looking over his own shoulder to see if I was watching…….so as if I would rescue him from this dreadful and meanial task. Thank goodness our ironing board is old and makes ungodly sounds as it is being set up ……it’s my warning sign to NOT ENTER THE ROOM!
By Linda Clark on 06/08/2008 2:29 pm
Teresa Proctor
Wow, there is so much passion around the elections this year, it is great! What if we carried this same amount of passion and enthusiasm forward to stop hungrier in this country, to better the education system in this country, to demand alternative fuel sources, to provide quality health care to everyone, to provide education to new mothers, to demand that resource be provide to prevent and stop domestic and child abuse, etc. etc. What kind of country would we be able to create together from a place of passion and cooperation?
By Teresa Proctor on 06/05/2008 6:10 pm
Elyse Beaudaux
As I saw it, Hillary Clinton’s entire run was rife with sexist contradictions - what got under my skin was how Hillary acted no differently than women in the 1950s and early 1960s when every organization in town with women officers, chairs - both elected and appointed - the women chosen was ALWAYS the women whose husband had the greatest influence in town. She was Mrs… - Not Ms… - and regardless the husband’s morals, if he was top dog everyone was delighted to have Mrs. Top Dog as Madam Chairman [we still were not calling women chairwoman], President or any other title that was used. Hillary included her experience as the ‘wife’ of Bill to enhance her credentials - Yes, she was closer to the action than most however, if we are electing the ‘first woman’ President who happened to be married to a past president then at least Hillary could have run on her own merits. Senator Clinton had a successful run as the Senator from New York - was that not sufficient? Folks may be struggling to treat powerful women with 2008 dignity and respect however, it confuses the issue when the women opens the door to behavior in keeping with 1950s social mores.
By Elyse Beaudaux on 06/05/2008 7:29 pm