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Conversation | 06/04/2008 8:45 am

Lesley Stahl, Cynthia McFadden: Sexism Went Unchallenged During Hillary Campaign

© AP

Editor’s Note: wowOwow welcomes Cynthia McFadden to our lineup of wise women who are making this site the gathering place for informed women on the web. Cynthia is at the top of a distinguished career in journalism, currently serving at ABC News on both “Nightline” and “Primetime Live.” Here, one of wowOwow’s founders, Lesley Stahl, interviews Cynthia on the Hillary Clinton campaign in its final days. Welcome, Cynthia! And more on Cynthia to come from our CEO Joni Evans … but we wanted our community to see this on this historic morning.

LESLEY: Cynthia, welcome to wOw — a floating, non-stop ladies’ lunch! I am delighted that your maiden voyage on our site is a conversation with moi! First, because I always love talking to you, but also because you’ve been spending a lot of your time on this campaign, my favorite topic.

Let’s discuss one of the more distressing issues that has reared its head: sexism. Many of the women who support Hillary are deeply upset and angry at what they perceive as the same old “double standard” that you and I have heard about – and maybe lived — for decades now. In your reporting, have you seen what they are talking about? And more personally, have you felt this misogyny in your own career?

CYNTHIA: As for my career, yes, in my first job as a journalist my boss told me I’d be paid half of what the man who preceded me was being paid. Why? He had an ex-wife and child to support. As for the campaign, yes, I think in ways both subtle and direct sexism has played a role. But it is so ingrained in our culture; it goes largely unnoted and unchallenged. The press is very good at pointing out and decrying racism, thank God, but sexism washes over most of us much of the time.

LESLEY: You’ve interviewed Hillary at least five times during the campaign. We can legitimately say you’re a Hillary expert. I’ve seen a lot of criticism that she has “used” sexism as a campaign ploy to whip up her supporters. Is that the way you see it? And – can I ask you to reflect on your own experience? Do you think this is “helpful” for women? I could have been wrong, but I have gone through my career determined never to come off as a “victim” or to even allow myself to think that my falling short was anything but my own fault.

CYNTHIA: "Victim" isn’t a good place to be. And, like you, I have tried very hard not to ask for special anything (even when the guys do) for fear that somehow I will be seen as expecting or wanting special treatment. And I should say that expecting equal treatment, I have, by and large, received it.

But let me be a bit more specific about my observations … Clinton struggled to find the right tone in her candidacy and she found herself either ridiculed after the famous New Hampshire "cry" as manipulative and girly or lambasted as cold and, well, pardon me, but it rhymes with rich. As retired general Tony McPeak (an Obama supporter) said in an interview after New Hampshire, "Obama doesn’t go on television and have crying fits."

An op-ed piece in a Midwestern newspaper referenced her "frequent wearing of dark pantsuits to conceal her bottom-heavy figure." I am unaware of any similar attention focused on the male behinds in the race.

As for her trying to "use" her sex or charges of "sexism" in the campaign, my observation was talking about gender made her very uncomfortable for some of the same reasons I think we avoid it. She knows "whining" isn’t appealing, even if there are legitimate concerns behind it.

At one point, I asked her why she hadn’t given the “gender speech,” as Obama had done with race. She said she didn’t feel she had to give that speech. That every day she was living the gender speech … just by standing up and saying, "I am the best person to be commander in chief."

216 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Frank Peterson
Doc’s girl: Amen—well done.
By Frank Peterson on 06/04/2008 11:24 am
Buh- Bye
No we can’t Doc’s girl, because Super Delegates chose Obama, not the majority of voters. The majority - the popular vote - went to Clinton. This fact, and the fact that the moveon.org-run-DNC threw her under the bus with that Michigan/Florida decision is frankly why I am not voting for Obama. One, because I do not like the dude, (he opposed a revote - what kind of Democrat is he? Sounds more like a Rove Republican to me) and 2 because I don’t like this corruption in my party. If the DNC is going to act like Republicans, I cannot support them anymore. How could they do the same thing to Florida voters that the Republicans did in the Gore/Bush race? It’s unfathomable! And Obama’s campaign led that charge. Not counting Democrats votes, and opposing a fair revote in order to win? That is unDemocratic.
By Buh- Bye on 06/05/2008 12:21 pm
mary lou s
thank you, alias. i was for hillary but not against obama till he vetoed my revote. now i don’t trust him but want to vote for the democrat.
By mary lou s on 06/05/2008 9:06 pm
Nori Vigil
Mary Lou, actually the states did not want the revote and really it just doesn’t matter anymore because it is over. I just joined this site because I watched an interview about this site and it was supposed to be so positive and reaffirming but I find this not to be true. I just wonder when we will go back to the days before Bush and Rove and people do not feel they have to attack everything for being on the other side. I know that for the last eight years I have felt such anger due to the administration that I was excited and hopeful for a positive change. I thought Hillary would be it but it seems that it will not be. I think that holding on to this anger on either side is just going to bring us to the place that the republicans have been on for so long. I think I will read a bit more but if this is the way these posts are going I may just no visit again.
By Nori Vigil on 06/06/2008 1:24 am
Frannie Em
Nori I have been on this site for a couple of months, there are many uplifting posts on other threads from earlier weeks. I don’t know what happened to this week. It has gotten a bit nasty and for me, it is not interesting. Don’t leave after you have just gotten here. I have learned which posts not to read because they have written the same thing a hundred times. It is 6 mos before the general election so it will go on from time to time. I found that sometimes to read the article and then post before you start reading the threads. Hang in there and come back and see if things have changed.
By Frannie Em on 06/06/2008 7:43 pm
Nori Vigil
Thank you Frannie I will do that. I suppose this was a difficult week for some people.
By Nori Vigil on 06/07/2008 2:51 am
Carol Hambidge
I emailed Cnn frequently throughout the race regarding sexism. If you went to their online site and clicked on Hillary Clinton, a picture of Obama came up. The misleading calculations of New Hampshire via CNN were criminal and there were no apologies. The racism question was leveled at a couple, who had devoted much of their lives to promoting equality. The exit polls labeling Clinton’s supportors as simply white, uneducated women, were not accurate, but never clarified. An educated, erudite citizen would vote only Obama. Did anyone question that? Was the fact that Obama took his children to a Church that promoted such verbal violence ever strike a chord in the heart of parents across the country? This race appalled me. Clinton is not a victim, but while she was “throwing the kitchen sink”, the Boys Club was having a field day.
By Carol Hambidge on 06/04/2008 10:03 am
Margo Porter
THANK YOU! Carol As an educated black woman, I agree wholeheartedly with your statements. By virtue of my appearance (because if you were not born in the U.S. race is not cultural its a physical feature) Iwas expected to vote for Obama. I grew up in a well educated east coast household and can say that my experience of why women often receive so much venom from the old boys club is because other women don’t support their sisters on the hot seat. The reason that it is called an “Old Boys CLUB” is because they support each other. We women are slow to do this. We are, however, very quick to question and judge. What I saw was many women quibbling about Bill…many women losing sight of the fact that HRC is well prepared to lead this country. What I saw was a popularity contest that harkened back to high school class elections. Make no mistake: there will only be a woman president in this country when we as women show that we do not need to fall in love with the illusion of the candidate’s perfection. Obama is a well educated person of color. Believe it or not there are several well educated African Americans in this country. Given our ecomnomic and diplomatic troubles, this was THE time for an experienced leader; not a “dream candidate”. When you need a doctor or a plumber you need him/her to be qualified not “dreamy”. It’s important to remember that any woman that does not believe in HRC still had a responsability to call out those who used gender bias as a weapon. The “silence” on this and the “Liberation Theology” issue was apalling and divisive.
By Margo Porter on 06/04/2008 11:19 am
S. B.
margo. thank you thank you thank you at last a voice of reason and not uncontrolled emotion. this clash of thoughts has been exhausting and now it’s over (at least for me) i have decided that women are simply not ready and will they ever, i just do not know. but today i am ashamed that i have to read the words of women who will never know the importance of power in all levels of human existence and some of you have a long way to go. open up to the knowledge of what the world is about and let’s all try to be more realistic in our criticism and more human. thanks for letting me write on this issue.
By S. B. on 06/04/2008 12:10 pm
Lorraine Bates
Margo, First, we need to define “well-educated”. What does that mean? Do you just need to go to college, or is post-graduate work required? If it’s the former, I guess I am well-educated. If it’s the latter, I am not. I refuse to re-create the “good ol’ boy’s club” with a “good ol’ girl’s club”. I am not a traitor to my sex for not supporting HRC in “the hot seat”. Remember - she CHOSE the hot seat. No one forced her to run for an office where she’d receive what amounts to a rectal exam during her candidacy. I don’t believe that HRC’s “experience” is experience at all. She has LESS time as an elected official than all of the other democratic candidates that once graced the race. I don’t believe being married to the POTUS qualifies as “experience”. If being in the Clinton family IS experience, then Chelsea is just as “experienced” as Hillary. Hell - we should elect Maria Shriver on that “experience” alone, being a Kennedy AND the spouse of a Governor. I do not feel HRC is well-prepared to run this country because I don’t want to see it run the way it has been run in the past. And that was the main plank in her platform - the “I know how it’s done” arguement. Ok - now that we have that out of the way… Was there sexism? Yes. Against Hillary? Yes. But let’s look deeper. Was there Sexism? Yes. Against Hillary? Yes. Waged by her rival? No. Was there Racism? Yes. Against Obama? Yes. Waged by his rival? YES. I was nauseated by Hillary proclaiming herself the candidate for the “white working class”. She herself proclaimed that she was the better candidate to defeat McCain because she was white. Not because she was better qualified than Obama. Simply because all y’all south of the Mason-Dixon line are too bigoted to consider a candidate on his merits, and only on the color of his skin. Where was your ire on that, Margo? As a middle class white woman, I was appaled. That was it for me. I was perplexed but not annoyed that she stayed in the race as long as she did until that. And I’m happy to forward to you the YouTube clip of her saying it, if you doubt it. But I will not, as you proclaim, “call out those who used gender bias as a weapon” because you can’t have it both ways. I’m happy to call a spade a spade (absolutely no pun intended), as long as we can call ALL of the spades as spades.
By Lorraine Bates on 06/04/2008 1:08 pm
Renata
Lorraine - As an African-American boomer woman, I thank you. As I have posted - I am beyond FASCINATED by WoW’s clear refusal to acknowledge Senator Obama’s HISTORIC WIN — and what it means about the progress we have made in America — from a political, cultural and NEWS perspective. I have read international and domestic news/editorial today — and this is UNIQUE and unexpected from WoW. Now — HRC has been both disadvantaged and advantaged by her gender. She KNOWS this and it would be disengenous for her to continue the VICTIM narrative. The American Middle-Class are VICTIMS. The Clintons have done VERY WELL. Thank you. Making this some kind of soap opera - aka the 90s — is unworthy of her and jeopardizes the future of women running for Office. HRC missed an opportunity to take the lead in so many ways I can’t even count. Instead, she is still in some kind of denial. She isn’t the first politician to lose and most have learned how to do so long before their 60s. Ditto, most Americans. HRC has had things on her terms for a long time. We all have life setbacks and how you rebound is important. Young women should NOT view what they are watching as anything they should model. I have heard HRC has made it known Barack “had better not put another woman on the ticket.” That’s not the point and not her place. She has LOST. Case closed. We are five mos. away from the General Election and — Cynthia McFadden writes she is exhausted. So are we all. And, unlike the Clintons — the Obamas and their supporters have an entire Summer and Fall to tirelessly continue WORKING toward the real goal. Nowhere do I see or hear recognition of that fact on WoW. Barack Obama only exists as someone who is in Hillary Clinton’s way. Talk about DENIAL.
By Renata on 06/04/2008 3:24 pm
Renata
CNN and all traditional media outlets have plenty of women in management and on the air. Ditto, editorial venues. I know many of them. Where were/are their voices if they truly believe there was gender bias IN MEDIA as it pertains to HRC? You called CNN and they probably took your name, etc. Add it to the pile. Traditional media is not interactive for the most part. They TELL us. Period. However, the women in media in NYC have been SILENT for the most part. They will not put themselves on the line where it matters, when it matters — if this VICTIM narrative is correct. Why not ask them — personally — to address your concerns? Why not hold THEM personally accountable? Their careers are a form of affirmative action. Does that not come with responsibilities — IF this VICTIM narrative for HRC is correct??? Having it all ways — has run its course. Women who truly believe HRC is a gender bias VICTIM should stand up and be counted where it matters and take the RISKS associated with that stance — or, they should cease proffering this false narrative because HRC is NO VICTIM. Bias affects every American, one way or another. Age, race, geographic region, personal style, etc. HRC ran a FLAWED CAMPAIGN and continuing the VICTIM act does a disservice to women across the entire strata of American life — who DO NOT WHINE, but do their best despite the challenges. Proudly, courageously — and with their dignity intact.
By Renata on 06/04/2008 11:35 am
mary lou s
renata, if you wake up and find proportion, i may find myself reading your comments again and not just scrolling past them.
By mary lou s on 06/04/2008 7:14 pm
Deni G
Your constant diatribes against the Clintons comes across as one long unending whine. It is not dignified, proud or courageous. The only candidate is serves, is McCain.
By Deni G on 06/05/2008 11:29 am
phyllis Doyle Pepe
Cynthia will be a welcome addition to the Wows and I look forward to her input. We, as women, should be expected to be treated as human beings, equal to men in all things. When we are not we need to roar and do something about it. I remember reading somewhere that Oswald’s wife “demanded her right to sexual satisfaction…it was what she had expected, like a washing machine.”
By phyllis Doyle Pepe on 06/04/2008 10:08 am