Conversation | 03/31/2008 12:30 pm

'We Just Don't Elect Presidents We Don't Like'

With Lesley Stahl, Liz Smith and Mary Wells

EDITOR’S NOTE: Also featuring special guest, Joni Evans, CEO of wowOwow.

JONI: Well, let’s talk about the campaign. Lesley, what are you thinking about it today?

LESLEY: Well, what’s on my mind today is why Hillary Clinton has taken such a hit for her — let’s call it — “creative fabrication” of what happened to her at that airport in Bosnia. And why John McCain, who made a gaffe the week before about whether Iran was controlling Al Qaeda didn’t. Anybody who’s been looking at the Middle East knows there’s no connection – the Iranians are Shiites; Al Qaeda is Sunni. It’s unfathomable that he didn’t know that. So why does she get tarred and feathered and he gets off easy and goes away? What is the dynamic there? Is it Hillary, or is it something else? And let me throw out a proposition and then we can argue about it if you want: Hillary has a credibility problem. People have said for a long time that she makes things up. It’s one of her largest problems, and it sticks to her. She’s got a sticky problem with telling the truth. And so this fed into it and she cannot escape from it now. It’s crazy to think she did it totally deliberately because her … she’d been warned it wasn’t true. There was something psychological to it in a way, in my mind. And I wonder if it almost isn’t a metaphor for the way she perceives her current situation. Maybe for her what’s going on in the campaign is constant incoming fire and she kind of mixed these up. John McCain, on the other hand, has no problem with foreign policy issues. People think he’s an expert on it so if he makes a little mistake, he’s forgiven. It’s not a problem. It doesn’t resonate and he can move on. It’s just to me a fascinating situation when you look at the two gaffes side by side. Anybody have any thoughts?

MARY: One of the thoughts I had about it, when you were talking, is it seems to me that one of the problems with this particular lie issue for Hillary is that it went on for days. And it just isn’t possible that the people advising her, or that the people around her, wouldn’t have said to her, “This is not a fact and you’re going to get caught up with this. Let’s figure out a solution to this,” much earlier. It just went on too long with her kind of insisting on keeping the lie going. I mean, if they had faced up to it much faster I think it would have been …

LESLEY: But why do you think she did it? It almost makes no sense.

JONI: I wonder if it’s a lie as much as a gaffe. I think there’s a big difference to a lie like, “I did not have sex with that woman.” Maybe it’s just her memory. Maybe she actually believes what she said.

LIZ: I think she just enhanced an experience that she didn’t remember too clearly. And in the same way that people writing memoirs make themselves the heroines and heroes of it. I do think it would have been pretty stupid for her to have done it deliberately. You can’t get away with anything anymore.

134 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

I’m not sure how much the divisiveness issue resonates with me. I think a lot of that has been fabricated or pushed by the press. All you have to do is go back and watch CNN sponsored debates. They focused in on Hillary and Obama, pushing for bickering. Now they are pushing “democrats are so divided, we are in so much trouble….” I don’t buy it and I still think we will win big come general election time. I do think Obama will be our candidate, because we as a Nation are hungry for truth, integrity and INTELLIGENT leading. I seriously do not understand why Hillary fabricated the “incoming sniper fire” story. I also don’t think she remembered differently somehow. How could anyone ever forget if they landed under sniper fire and had to run for cover? That would be branded into your long-term memory. I do think it has hurt her significantly because I think our military felt insulted, as if they would let the first lady come under fire. The other piece that is ludicrous is Hillary saying that when it is too dangerous to send the President you send in the first lady. What is that all about??? If I hadn’t heard that out of her own mouth I would have thought that was a foxism.

By mariasudduth on 03/31/2008 12:54 pm

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I agree. And I’m very troubled by the media ignoring Karl Rove at this point. He was encouraging Republicans to reregister in Iowa and vote in the Democratic primaries against Senator Clinton. He was encouraging them to give money to Obama to disable her. All the way through, I’ve been hearing disturbing rumors about him. I don’t believe for a second he was “fired” by the White House. I think they just sent him out to strategize this election. I’m also concerned that they have “charged” six, was it?, of the illegally held Guantanamo guys for masterminding 9/11 and asked the death penalty. McCain has been in Iraq, I think, so they could shoot his campaign ads. All this is very disturbing, because I think they’re gearing up for a 9/11 show trial. And constantly up-playing this crap about the “division” among Democrats plays right into all that.

By MugsyPeabody on 03/31/2008 2:20 pm

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Mugsy- Agree re Karl Rove and the 9/11 show trial. It’s always a shell game distraction. The MSM amps up the hyper-anxiety shark music behind Hillary’s Bosnia pix. As Walt Disney said, anytime Snow White or the Dwarfs start singing—cut to the Witch. At the same time the former head of Goldman Sachs is HQd at the Fed to “regulate” investment banks. So script choices here seem to be: Fox and the Henhouse or My Pet Goat.

By BuhByeHillaryHillaryBuhBye on 03/31/2008 8:05 pm

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But in reality, so tragically for us, Bush & Co.’s real soundtrack should be The Sorcerer’s Apprentice.

By MugsyPeabody on 03/31/2008 8:15 pm

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Thwang! Mugsy! This is truly an inspired comment! The truth of it is just bouncing around in my brain like a fabulous punch-line. You do realize, don’t you, that Paul Dukas, a Parisian, composed “The Sorceror’s Aprrentice” as a spoof on Wagner’s musical penchant for hyperbole. Wagner was soooo divisive, musically speaking. People either loved him or hated him. Most Frenchmen…in the second half of the nineteenth century…viewed every German, with the (possible) exception of Beethoven, with a certain contempt. But brrrr! They really disliked Richard Wagner. So I’m particularly struck by the irony of your statement. Especially in light of Hitler’s allegiance to Wagner. Unfortunately, President Bush is not a cartoon. It is all quite tragic. Power is destined to empower. That’s how I see it. So one must be knowledgable of the consequences attached to any deployment of power. And while Bush and Co. may have been the ones Mickey-Mousin’ with America’s military and economic strength in Iraq, it’s the American dollar that seems to be drowning. So there’s hope. As long as there are men like Warren Buffett on the planet, there’s hope. Sometimes the ethical choice is the most effective. As long as the American Constitution remains in print, there’s hope. Who’s gonna sponsor study groups of that document? We all need to read it again….and again.

By MsDee on 04/10/2008 6:16 pm

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The music on that soundtrack is much too nice to be applied to anything resembling Bush and Company. If you go to Fantasia, you can apply the stormy mountain music to Dick Cheney’s visage.

By IlofMusich on 04/12/2008 11:25 pm

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I think Obama’s racism and McCain’s ignorance and infidelity are downplayed by closeted republican media. If i was in the war zone, i would embellish my courage too. Republicans from day one wanted Obama-McCain general elections, because they did their homework - 28% of Hillary’s voters will not vote for Obama. Is this wowowow or manwow?

By helenelorraine on 04/01/2008 12:55 am

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great site..My opinion is that if Hillary were a white man he wouldn’t be told to quit the race.

By LindaGoldberg on 04/10/2008 9:01 pm

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I sat at the table and had a real good taste of each of the candidates. The first one I tasted was hot but untested. The second was cold and doddering, but the third was just right. The perfect temperature of experience and humanity. Interestingly enough, she was the only female. And the only one who approached the race as a conversation with America.

By BuhBye on 04/15/2008 7:36 pm

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Ladies, the reason Hillary lied and stuck to it for so many days is, she is that arrogant. She probably did believe her version because she is a pathological pschopathic liar. She should most definitely be held accountable for her blatent arrogant behavior.

By EllinJ on 03/31/2008 12:56 pm

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Please, could you stop with the name-calling already? Everyone has flaws, number 1, and number 2, nobody but nobody but nobody would EVER run for elective office in this country who isn’t somewhat arrogant. It takes a healthy ego to do that. Did lying to the United Nations to drag the world into this unjust and illegal war seem “pathological and pschopathic” to you?

By MugsyPeabody on 03/31/2008 2:24 pm

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Thank you, Mugsy Peabody. Lesley Stahl, I’m disappointed in your comments because I believed you to be a serious journalist, reporting, not psychoanalyzing. I thoroughly enjoy this venue for its content, diverse collection of topics and opportunities to join in the discussion. In this instance Stahl seems to have adopted the role of “gossip” columnist while the well-respected Maven of Media Gossip Liz Smith assumes the role of rational reporter. “We don’t elect peopl we don’t like.” Is this middle school student council? Come on, Leslie, you were a cheerleader weren’t you? And you never liked the geeks. Oh, I shouldn’t pick on you in childish ways; afterall, you have a substantive body of excellent work for which I highly respect you. Why don’t you discuss McCain’s eligibility to run for President per the Constitution? Now there’s a bit of arrogance.

By BethWillis on 04/02/2008 10:04 am

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I think Hillary just made up the sniper fire story. My sister does the same thing. Just trying to hold her audience, throw in a little drama. It doesn’t effect how she does her job. And it does seem to me like it has or hasn’t blown over as much as the McCain gaffe has or hasn’t. Not to mention how much O’bama’s doggone preacher has or hasn’t slipped from our memory or our media.

By MsDee on 04/10/2008 6:35 pm

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I used to be a lobbyist and now my law practice is in an area dominated by men. After the McCain “affair” accusations surfaced I thought someone would point out that lobbyists have many legitimate reasons for accompanying legislators to fundraisers and other events. Most legislators are men. That kind of speculation really hurts female lobbyists who are just trying to do a job. Actually, could prevent them from getting jobs. Sorry. Do not mean to go on about this. Very much enjoyed reading the conversation. Saw the reference to the McCain “affair” and felt compelled to comment. Suzanne Katt

By SuzanneKatt on 03/31/2008 1:06 pm

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You know, gals, that all that has been said is guesswork more than anything. The three candidates have a hidden staff surrounding them, hopefully the best brains in politics and the best speech writers, and I hardly think there are too many instances of independent judgment after a grueling day-after-day on the campaign trail. They are told “I think this gaffe will blow over” or “This is how we turn your lapse of judgment (or just plain lie) around” - and if you are paying for this top-notch staff, you normally will go with their judgment. There is not too much time in the day not to. While I am not for Hillary - as no woman president will be able to make inroads on a face-to-face with Middle Eastern culture and leaders and that has been proven - I hate a quitter more than anything. I would like her remembered as woman who has given her all and at one time “had a prayer”. We have watched “the inside” of the presidency know that the president is only as good as the people surrounding him who have more specific “smarts” than he does. Again, the more that the “brains” behind the throne are mature and proved worth, the more we have to think then man can learn on the job. He certainly will be fed a college education of facts to learn each week - but these men then should be sharp on their feet. I would be - so they would be. Too problems though. McCain better have a top-notch choice for vice-president as I am his age — and one after another my friends are tumbling — and age and memory do impact more each year. Point made. As for Obama - confident, impressive, the whole shebang - with only one big slip-up that may go away - has one fault. His beautiful wife has come out, made some real gaffes as she speaks her mind. I am not sure that she does not want to be wife of a president or mother of children living in the White HOuse. Who can blame an intelligent woman for saying that? Michelle Obama has had her own working life with a high high-level position that tells her the sky is the limit for her in REAL life. To sit out a presidency of two terms is not her style. I live in Chicago and have seen her in action. And how many of us would like to have a glass bubble life for our children. She doesn’t. I see problems here, don’t you? I happen to side with her — and it will be interesting how the impact of a reluctant and vocal First Lady will have in the future of Barack!! I actually wish the three of them well on this campaign road filled and refilled with mine traps. Let the person who has the most positive, sensible and specific programs with attention to how he will put them through Congress win. THAT is going to be the crux of this whole process.

By joan larsen on 03/31/2008 1:25 pm