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Conversation | 03/31/2008 11:30 am

'We Just Don't Elect Presidents We Don't Like'

© Shutterstock

EDITOR’S NOTE: Also featuring special guest, Joni Evans, CEO of wowOwow.

JONI: Well, let’s talk about the campaign. Lesley, what are you thinking about it today?

LESLEY: Well, what’s on my mind today is why Hillary Clinton has taken such a hit for her — let’s call it — “creative fabrication” of what happened to her at that airport in Bosnia. And why John McCain, who made a gaffe the week before about whether Iran was controlling Al Qaeda didn’t. Anybody who’s been looking at the Middle East knows there’s no connection – the Iranians are Shiites; Al Qaeda is Sunni. It’s unfathomable that he didn’t know that. So why does she get tarred and feathered and he gets off easy and goes away? What is the dynamic there? Is it Hillary, or is it something else? And let me throw out a proposition and then we can argue about it if you want: Hillary has a credibility problem. People have said for a long time that she makes things up. It’s one of her largest problems, and it sticks to her. She’s got a sticky problem with telling the truth. And so this fed into it and she cannot escape from it now. It’s crazy to think she did it totally deliberately because her … she’d been warned it wasn’t true. There was something psychological to it in a way, in my mind. And I wonder if it almost isn’t a metaphor for the way she perceives her current situation. Maybe for her what’s going on in the campaign is constant incoming fire and she kind of mixed these up. John McCain, on the other hand, has no problem with foreign policy issues. People think he’s an expert on it so if he makes a little mistake, he’s forgiven. It’s not a problem. It doesn’t resonate and he can move on. It’s just to me a fascinating situation when you look at the two gaffes side by side. Anybody have any thoughts?

MARY: One of the thoughts I had about it, when you were talking, is it seems to me that one of the problems with this particular lie issue for Hillary is that it went on for days. And it just isn’t possible that the people advising her, or that the people around her, wouldn’t have said to her, “This is not a fact and you’re going to get caught up with this. Let’s figure out a solution to this,” much earlier. It just went on too long with her kind of insisting on keeping the lie going. I mean, if they had faced up to it much faster I think it would have been …

LESLEY: But why do you think she did it? It almost makes no sense.

JONI: I wonder if it’s a lie as much as a gaffe. I think there’s a big difference to a lie like, “I did not have sex with that woman.” Maybe it’s just her memory. Maybe she actually believes what she said.

LIZ: I think she just enhanced an experience that she didn’t remember too clearly. And in the same way that people writing memoirs make themselves the heroines and heroes of it. I do think it would have been pretty stupid for her to have done it deliberately. You can’t get away with anything anymore.

134 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye
Joan, Did you use the protocal posted for paragraph breaks? I have a Mac and haven’t been able utilize the paragraph feature. Once previously I had that attributed by a tech person as incompatibility with the Safari operating system. Thanks.
By Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye on 03/31/2008 5:38 pm
helene lorraine
There are women presidents in the world, and those countries don’t have problems with Middle East! Mr. Wright and Ms. Obama are not very proud of this country, which country are they proud of?
By helene lorraine on 04/01/2008 12:07 am
Ms. Dee
I hadn’t heard that about Michelle O’bama. But then, they say Eleanor Roosevelt wasn’t real happy about moving into the White House either. But she was a woman who took every opportunity to do some good. I can’t imagine Michelle O’bama won’t find a number of fulfilling opportunities waiting for her…just outside the oval office.
By Ms. Dee on 04/10/2008 5:28 pm
Star Lawrence
Someone on one of the blabber shows said she talked to someone else on that plane and the pilot did say they were going in hot. This was, of course, ignored. Yes, I agree, Hillary has said things that aren’t true. Someone on Salon this AM listed more than 100 “lies” Obama has told—so far. And McCain—don’t even GET me started (I am from AZ). I don’t think we need a leader even—to lead us to WHAT? We need someone who can govern and undo the Bush crap. It may take 8 yrs just to unwind this mess. Hard, slogging work—not show pony speeches and academics trying out govt jobs and all the rest.
By Star Lawrence on 03/31/2008 12:28 pm
A B
She has never faced the voting public, which is fortunate because she is not particularly likeable, is black, and is a woman. Yet at this very moment she is 4th in line to the presidency. How ironic that a country still fixated on likeability, race, and gender has Condoleezza Rice. (This is not a plug for CR, merely an observation.)
By A B on 03/31/2008 12:53 pm
Jeannot Kensinger
Can any candidate fix what GWB is leaving behind?
By Jeannot Kensinger on 03/31/2008 1:06 pm
Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye
JMK- Wonder Woman. But Linda Carter hung up her tights.
By Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye on 03/31/2008 4:44 pm
Mugsy Peabody
President Bush landed in the Ukraine Monday…” Is there some way we can make him stay there?
By Mugsy Peabody on 03/31/2008 6:07 pm
Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye
Mugsy- Ha! Judging from the welcoming committee, I say Neyt on that Sparky. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZkV2FoGMBc&feature=user
By Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye on 03/31/2008 8:10 pm
The Ole Crone The Ole Crone
JMK Singer, as to your comment of 3/31/08. It isn’t just George Bush. This has been buildin’ fast for decades with the onset of Reagan. But even before that we’ve had decades and even more than a century of Imperialism we were told was ‘Nation Buiding’, with the G-8 multinats runnin’ the ball in covert behaviors and politicos on the dole gettin’ a whole lot more than some pineapples from Hawaii. The multinats, pimpin’ lawyers, and prositutin legislators and officials put us in a fix. It’s just so obvious now because of the internet and the searching we can do. Also the help of good honest poorly paid investigative reporters and historians takin’ advantage of the Freedom of Information Act. And let’s not forget the brave whistleblowers who’ve lost jobs to get us the truth. It’s just been done so well for so long that by the time Geoge W. got there the holes were wide open and he ran the ball right through! The question is. Now that we have all this info and it’s pretty stupid to be a party person because they’re both skrewin’ us, —just what are we gonna do about it? From down home all the way to the 1600 Block? Hum? It’s not about ‘them’ anymore is it? It’s all about us now, and I wonder if we will or not do what we need to do from the bottom to the top. If I were runnin’ a bettin’ ring I’d put the odds at 80/20 that we won’t, —and hope I’d lose.
By The Ole Crone The Ole Crone on 04/10/2008 9:35 am
Tammy Moore
I’ll plug Dr. Condoleezza Rice. I’d vote for her. There is alot about her I like. http//www.whitehouse.gov/ricebio.html
By Tammy Moore on 03/31/2008 1:13 pm
Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye
Tammy, I have two very high-powered black women friends, one a former law professor at Stanford when CR was Provost there, the other a former $12M-a year COO of a major company named by Fortune as one of the 50 most powerful African Americans in US. I have listened to the two of them talk about CR. And based on these two women who I very much respect, I had a negative view of CR BEFORE she helped lie us into a phony war. The entire administration, including Karl Rove, belong at The Hague. Nothing admirable about war profiteers at all. CR may be attractive, articulate, and play the piano well…there is also an oil tanker named after her for a reason. And boatloads of insider books and high level officials from the Reagan, GB #41 administration, etc who find them dangerous as hell. I’m all for black women leaders, but I want leaders like Barbara Jordan. CR presides over Foreign Policy. Here is the very short list of the good the Bush Administration has undone since 2000: First two quotes.”Just as US companies will profit from both the destruction and rebuilding of Iraq at a cost of billions of US taxpayer dollars . They will also profit from the restoration of the US arsenal after the war, a war whose astronomical costs, at a time the US can least afford it, the Bush administration has worked hard to keep hidden.**”If President Eisenhower were with us today, he would be suffering his own case of Shock and Awe over the lengths this administration is willing to go to in using the military-industrial complex as a political tool to help its friends and grease the path to its re-election.” -William D. Hartung, World Policy Institute***Since 2000, more international environmental protections, human rights, arms control and other treaties have been denounced than in any other time in American history: ***In 12/2001 the US withdrew from the 1972 Antiballistic Missile Treaty. It was the first time in the nuclear age that the US abandoned a major arms control agreement. ***In 7/2001 the US abandoned efforts to strengthen the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention. In 1972 this agreement was ratified by 144 nations including the US. ***In 7/2001 the UN Agreement to Curb the International Flow of Illicit Small Arms was approved by all nations except the US. The US is 5% of the world’s population, and provides 50% of the world’s arms. Major US banks are the world’s number one money launderers [fact.] Together money laundering and arms dealing perpetuates the cycle of more dictators, terrorists, drug cartels, arms runners, and civil wars. This combination perpetuates the world’s annual $5 trillion dollar gross criminal product. US big banks make enormous, unregulated fees by laundering dirty money. ***In 4/2001 the US was not reelected to the UN Human Rights Commission for withholding UN dues, including current dues of $244 million. As a percentage of GDP the US as the wealthiest country on earth, contributes the least to foreign aid, almost zero. 1% of the GDP of industrialized nations could eradicate the world despair that feeds terrorism. ***In 3/2001 The Koyoto Protocol of 1997 developed over 10 years by 160 nations cooperating to control global warming was declared ôdeadö by the US Administration. US tax payers provide $400 million a year in federal R&D grants for profit rich oil companies. Clean alternative energy companies receive $24 million, which was cut to pay for printing costs for the 2003 boondoggle Cheney Energy Bill. ***In 5/2001 the US refused to meet with European Union nations on economic espionage and electronic surveillance of phone calls, e-mail and faxes. ***In 2/2001 the US refused to join the pledge of 123 nations to ban the use and production of personnel bombs and mines. ***In 7/2001, out of the G-8 countries, the US was the only country to oppose the International Plan for Cleaner Energy. ***In 10/2001 the US General Assembly resolution to call for an end to the US embargo of Cuba passed by 167 to 3. The US, Israel and the Marshall Islands cast the opposing votes. ***The US has failed to ratify: ***The Land Mind Treaty. Bans land mines, signed by 122 nations. The US, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, Egypt and Turkey refused to sign. The UN estimates that there are 500,000 mines in Chechnya alone. Millions of children who’ve been traumatized by war, seen their parents, siblings, friends and neighbors killed, lost their homes, and live in desparate circumstances, can’t even play outdoors for fear of unexploded ordinance. Mines hamper efforts to restore infrastructure, sanitation, and heal the results of war: lost limbs, eyes, hearing, rampant Hepatitis A, whooping coup, anemia, gastrointestinal disease, tuberculois, cancers, permanent traumatic stress disorders. What kind of future are we making, when millions of children see wildflower fields as places likely to explode beneath their feet? ***The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. The US and Somalia are the only nations that failed to ratify this treaty.***The Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. This treaty seeks to end the death penalty, and execution of minors under18. The US refused to sign. The US, Saudi Arabia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iran and Nigeria are the five countries that execute minors.***The International Criminal Court. Would try political leaders and military personnel for war crimes and crimes against humanity. 120 countries approved, 7 opposed including the US. ***The Cairo Consensus. The US was the the sole dissenter from 40 nations in March 2004 at the Hemispheric Conference on Gender and Population in Santiago, Chile. The Cairo Consensus population goals were set and approved by 179 countries and the US at the 1994 International Conference on Poulation and Development. The Bush administration would not reffirm the US committment to the 1996 Beijing Platform of Action, a UN program set by consenus at the UN Millennium Summit of 2000 to advance women throughout the world. Instead of cooperating with the International community on paramount issues, Bush capitulates to his radical-fundamentalist base.***The 1979 Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women. Four countries have not ratified: the US, Afghanistan, Sao Tome and Principe.***The Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty: Signed by 164 nations. Signed by President Clinton in 1996, rejected by the GOP controlled Senate in 1999. In September 2003 the GOP controlled Senate approved BushÆs request to lift the 10 year ban on research, development and production of nuclear weapons. $5.8 billion of US taxpayer money will be spent on nuclear weapons in 2003. By comparison, the total annual funding for The National Endowment of the Arts is $1,139,000. One F-17 jet fighter costs $1,120,000.
By Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye on 03/31/2008 3:35 pm
A B
I always wanted my own army but I had no idea an F-17 costs so much.
By A B on 03/31/2008 4:09 pm
Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye
AB—the thrill of having your own army is so overdone. Joan of Arc—I rest my case. Saved France and all she got was that lousy stake burning.
By Buh-Bye Hillary Hillary Buh-Bye on 03/31/2008 4:42 pm
A B
i would do anything to get George Bernard Shaw’s attention.
By A B on 03/31/2008 5:55 pm