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Conversation | 03/31/2008 11:30 am

'We Just Don't Elect Presidents We Don't Like'

© Shutterstock

EDITOR’S NOTE: Also featuring special guest, Joni Evans, CEO of wowOwow.

JONI: Well, let’s talk about the campaign. Lesley, what are you thinking about it today?

LESLEY: Well, what’s on my mind today is why Hillary Clinton has taken such a hit for her — let’s call it — “creative fabrication” of what happened to her at that airport in Bosnia. And why John McCain, who made a gaffe the week before about whether Iran was controlling Al Qaeda didn’t. Anybody who’s been looking at the Middle East knows there’s no connection – the Iranians are Shiites; Al Qaeda is Sunni. It’s unfathomable that he didn’t know that. So why does she get tarred and feathered and he gets off easy and goes away? What is the dynamic there? Is it Hillary, or is it something else? And let me throw out a proposition and then we can argue about it if you want: Hillary has a credibility problem. People have said for a long time that she makes things up. It’s one of her largest problems, and it sticks to her. She’s got a sticky problem with telling the truth. And so this fed into it and she cannot escape from it now. It’s crazy to think she did it totally deliberately because her … she’d been warned it wasn’t true. There was something psychological to it in a way, in my mind. And I wonder if it almost isn’t a metaphor for the way she perceives her current situation. Maybe for her what’s going on in the campaign is constant incoming fire and she kind of mixed these up. John McCain, on the other hand, has no problem with foreign policy issues. People think he’s an expert on it so if he makes a little mistake, he’s forgiven. It’s not a problem. It doesn’t resonate and he can move on. It’s just to me a fascinating situation when you look at the two gaffes side by side. Anybody have any thoughts?

MARY: One of the thoughts I had about it, when you were talking, is it seems to me that one of the problems with this particular lie issue for Hillary is that it went on for days. And it just isn’t possible that the people advising her, or that the people around her, wouldn’t have said to her, “This is not a fact and you’re going to get caught up with this. Let’s figure out a solution to this,” much earlier. It just went on too long with her kind of insisting on keeping the lie going. I mean, if they had faced up to it much faster I think it would have been …

LESLEY: But why do you think she did it? It almost makes no sense.

JONI: I wonder if it’s a lie as much as a gaffe. I think there’s a big difference to a lie like, “I did not have sex with that woman.” Maybe it’s just her memory. Maybe she actually believes what she said.

LIZ: I think she just enhanced an experience that she didn’t remember too clearly. And in the same way that people writing memoirs make themselves the heroines and heroes of it. I do think it would have been pretty stupid for her to have done it deliberately. You can’t get away with anything anymore.

134 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Star Lawrence
Do you really think this is an appropriate comment? Someone on Huffington said Hillary smells like stale farts. Is this our country? The country we want to be?
By Star Lawrence on 04/02/2008 11:45 am
francine hardaway
Quite frankly I don’t think Hillary is a uniter of people, no matter how good she is on policy. At the end of the day, it’s about people, not policy. Can you motivate the country to feel proud again, to take real part in the process to maintain their own health, to go easy on the environment? This takes leadership == the kind that comes with charisma. I’m dying to have a woman president who can be a uniter, but the history of the Clinton’s doesn’t really point to that. At this point, we need the moral equivalent of the Dalai Lama.
By francine hardaway on 04/01/2008 6:11 pm
Mugsy Peabody
Pay attention to Nancy Pelosi.
By Mugsy Peabody on 04/01/2008 8:42 pm
Kay Sara
Pelosi took Bush’s impeachment off of the table. She is throwing advantages to Obama instead of staying neutral until the voters have had their say. Am I missing some virtue?
By Kay Sara on 04/10/2008 2:08 pm
kat
I find that both Hillary and McCain live in a world where they think the majority of voters are uninformed and just a rung below, and when it comes to Obama well, he is just hoping that we all realize that these were just snippets played for a 2 week period and Rev Wright is no longer his spiritual adivsor because he retired. This campaign is a comedy and tragedy.
By kat on 04/03/2008 7:41 pm
M. G.
We Just Don’t Elect Presidents We Don’t Like’ Yes we do. People will vote for someone they don’t like because they are staying loyal to their party. No matter how bad that person is for our country. By the way those who bash George Bush and his office you seem to forget how bad Jimmy Carter was for president. Step outside the box and vote for the best candidate who can do the job and has our best interest at heart. Not somebody that your spouse says to vote for or your union or your church. Vote with your conscience. And those who say they won’t vote if their candidate is not chosen it is your duty to get out and vote for the best candidate. No there is no perfect person no perfect candidate. The people need to come together for the good of the country and stop all this fighting.
By M. G. on 04/04/2008 9:31 am
B. H.
Looks like I joined a bit late to comment but here it goes anyway. The media have been horrible in their reporting towards Hillary Clinton – period. All you need to do is watch evening MSNBC to get a taste for the insulting coverage – to Hillary Clinton and ALL women. Some of the nastiness is outright misogyny that is acceptable in our society in a way that racism is not. Something that has been missing from ALL news coverage is the simple fact that unless the next president of the US is absolutely brilliant they will be a one term president. Why? The state of the nation is such a mess that NO ONE – republican, democrat or other – will be happy with the next president’s efforts.
By B. H. on 04/08/2008 11:14 pm
Kathleen E Lo Pinto VIgnolini
Come on Leslie, et al, when was the last time you heard a candidate running for the highest office “tell the truth”? Did Bush, about his military service? No, and when Dan Rather tried, and was dumped. Did Bush 1, about his being “out of the loop” with Iran-contra? Pl-ease! Did Reagan, about his “anti-abortion” stance? (As CA governor, he quickly signed the bill for abortion.) Three things push a candidate into the White House: 1. the candidates’ staff writing creative sound-bites, 2. the lack of real in depth investigative reporting by the Press into those bites and, 3. pure unadulterated POWER! Though I do admire you Leslie, and those you work with, but since it became “not nice” to ask the tough questions (poor Mr Reagan & Bush 1), no news group is giving us a “fact vs. fiction” glimpse into any of the candidates statements. That said, why not? Why do we accept the scrutiny of Hillary, but not of the other candidates? Because we too, have become lazy. We accept the pabulum fed us by the candidate and the press (all media). We listen to what we want to hear, what makes us feel good. Just like in our need for revenge, we dismissed the few who questioned the “reasons” given to go into Iraq. Because what we don’t understand, we don’t question or try to learn more about. “The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.” Robert Maynard Hutchins. (1899-1977) But thank God, we now have two candidates who are moving more people to get involved! Let the pundits say what they will. And let us ignore the fracas of division they want us to buy into, and those sensationalists’ who want to draw our attention away from the issues at hand. Otherwise, we WILL get what we ask for!
By Kathleen E Lo Pinto VIgnolini on 04/09/2008 1:27 am
G T
If Obama is elected to the office of President, his work is really cut out for him. In addition to having to deal with all the “hot” issues of the day, people are going to expect him to lead them into the America they envision as “better”.. In all his speeches I have yet to hear him get down to facts and tell us how he plans to do all this “change”..Expectations are very high..And the press hasn’t made much of an effort to pin him down on this. Instead they are starry eyed and dreaming along with all the rest of the crowd. Hillary Clinton compaigns on the lets all “Hate Bush” and that is a very popular theme with Democrats, but not as popular as “Camelot Revisited” from the Obama camp. Yes, we probably will get what we asked for.
By G T on 04/09/2008 1:58 am
Farzana  Akbar
come on ladies give her a break, i think she was kind of delusional when she kept on making that statement.That could be anything an honest mistake,or a calculated risk,she is too smart as well as has a very smart group advising her.After giving it a lot of thought and watching the media pounce on her and her credibility i have come to a conclusion she wanted to be discussed and projected day in and day out.Imagine the publicity she received and the exposure she got.Criss Mathew alone by default kept her alive in his very partial and anti Hillary discussion.Now i like the guy i think he is interesting and he enjoys politics and keeps the program alive and fun though sometimes you wish he would shut up and let the other person talk.But like a Mullah he loves to hear himself talk.That is besides the point.Why do you think Hillary dismissed the whole issue by saying I am human and moved on. I think Obama has double the amount of money to spend on his campaign and this was Hillary’s way of getting lot of mileage with a slip of a tongue.I like Obama he can be a good leader but he is a babe in the woods for God sake.He is intelligent has charisma, gets young people excited but not seasoned enough with a resume to show that this is what he has done and now he is ready to get us out of this mess.This country at such a difficult and crucial time needs a women’s intelligence resliance toughness and ability to steer us out of it .And I think she has it all and women even in today’s time has to perform two times better to be acknowledged to be good as compared to a man. I am neither a feminist nor a sexist just a realist. So what prompted her to go on making a statement like that could be anybody’s guess but we can only makes a guess.Another excellent point which people are not ready to say aloud is that she has Bill Clinton to guide her and advise her.Whatever his faults he still is a brilliant man.And we could use that to turn things around.
By Farzana Akbar on 04/09/2008 3:42 am
Sue Rumbelow
I am English- living in England- and I do try to follow your Politics from the English Press ( usually much more ‘direct’ and ‘nastier’ than yours). I can relate in someway to the debate surrounding Hillary v Obama as we ‘endured’ a Prime Minister in this country - who just happened to be female. Although her politics were not my politics I was very much aware on the emphasis our Press put on what she was wearing each day and the ‘style’ of her clothes etc- when they should have been looking much more closely at her style of government. Very interesting debate though and quite stimulating to an ‘outside foreigner’. Lets hope that the best person for America wins the nomination- remembering that not all Americans are white- middle-class and comfortably off financially. Best wishes. Sue. (not quire retired- Mum, wife- Grandma of 10 and soon to be Great Grandma.
By Sue Rumbelow on 04/09/2008 5:02 am
maria bittinger
The thing I question most about Hillary is taking positions that clearly are politically expedient and I do not believe are necessarily what she believes. The Bosnia story is part of that whole pathology. The other thing that makes me uneasy is her constant mantra that we did it right during the Clinton administration. Unfortunately that is somewhat of an illusion and you can’t go back we as a country must go forward.
By maria bittinger on 04/09/2008 6:45 am
Pat Hacker
We Just Don’t Elect Presidents We Don’t Like’ We don’t? I can’t remember the last president we elected that I liked or respected. As to Hillary and her gaff, you can’t run on experience and then enhance said experience with lies and expect a pass. John McCain is currently operating under the veteran glow. Where everyone who ever wore a uniform is seen as a hero. You don’t dare to mention their flaws, you might be seen as unpatriotic. For the same reason I can’t see someone named Obama being elected at this moment in time. I even question why he’s come this far. It’s almost as though the race was thrown a long time ago for McCain. And for JMK “Can any candidate fix what GWB is leaving behind?” The people with the real power don’t want it fixed.
By Pat Hacker on 04/09/2008 10:16 am
Emjay Iowan
First, many here, including Lesley, are forgetting , or never knew that Hillary Clinton went on, without Sinbad , but with two sharpshooters, to 2 or 3 outposts in the hills from the base in Tuzla. Mode of travel was helicopter, both landings were corkscrew. Along with Liz, I cannot enlarge one of those little videos, but spent years as an academic doing research, and I was able to find contemporaneous reports on the net about the extent of her visit to the troops in Bosnia. Before anyone on here says again that she lied, get some real facts. Getting the facts: geez, dontcha think that is something that should also have been done about the Ohio woman who died for lack of adequate, timely medical care. We are not seeing or hearing any public correction about that accusation of lying, are we? We all owe her an apology, or two, or three.
By Emjay Iowan on 04/09/2008 3:25 pm
Nancy Allen
Love the site! Thank you. If you back it up one question and ask why don’t we like the candidate, you might be surprised to realize how often we are baraged with really rotten sexist commentary from both the right and the left media groups. Men and even WOMEN, if you can believe that get in on the fun. It is sometimes so subtle, people are taking it in over and over and I believe it is coloring our views. Shots at the persons own actions, ideas, missteps are all fine, but when you make snide comments, attack them simply because of their gender, that is as unacceptable as attacking them for a difference in race, national origin, sexual orientation, etc. You tell me any of this happens in prime time. Thank God we’ve moved ahead in some ways. I am copying a list of exerpts from national news media, listen for the way they treat Hillary, listen not for their critique of her views, but of how they critique them. I think you will be amazed as I was at how far we have not come. (I pulled this off of the oklahomawomenblogspot.com/2008/02/gender-bias-in-media-html )Just so you don’t think I’m making this up, here are a few of the latest offenders: Maureen Dowd, The New York Times, Feb. 13, 2008 Relaying a joke told by Penn Jillette: “Obama is just creaming Hillary. You know, all these primaries, you know. And Hillary says it’s not fair, because they’re being held in February, and February is Black History Month. And unfortunately for Hillary, there’s no White Bitch Month.” Katie Couric, CBS’s 60 Minutes, Feb. 10, 2008 Interviewing Clinton: “What were you like in high school? Were you the girl in the front row taking meticulous notes and always raising your hand? … Someone told me your nickname in school was ‘Miss Frigidaire’ — is that true?” David Shuster, guest-hosting MSNBC’s Tucker, Feb. 7, 2008 Regarding Chelsea Clinton making calls for her mother’s campaign: “[T]here’s just something a little bit unseemly to me that Chelsea is out there calling up celebrities saying, ‘Support my mom.’ … doesn’t it seem like Chelsea’s sort of being pimped out in some weird sort of way?” Lester Holt, MSNBC’s primary coverage, Feb. 5, 2008 Incredulously, apparently shocked by exit poll results: “With the field of Democratic candidates reduced to two, we asked primary voters, ‘Who would make the best commander in chief of the U.S. armed forces?’ And here, it was Hillary Clinton who was the clear favorite. The first woman candidate with a serious shot at winning the presidency beat out her male rival — look at these numbers — 50 percent to 35 percent. Keep in mind, this at a time the nation is fighting on two fronts.” Andrew Sullivan, TheAtlantic.com, Feb. 4. 2008 “The second bout of public tears just before a crucial primary vote - after no evidence that Senator Hillary Clinton has a history of tearing up in front of the cameras - provokes the unavoidable question: should feminists actively vote against Clinton to defend the cause of female equality?” Bill Kristol (New York Times columnist), panelist on Fox News Sunday, Feb. 3, 2008 “Look, the only people for Hillary Clinton are the Democratic establishment and white women … . White women are a problem, that’s, you know — we all live with that.” After other panelists stated their disagreement, Kristol responded: “I know, I shouldn’t have said that.” Maureen Dowd, The New York Times, Jan. 30, 2008 “Like Scarlett O’Hara after a public humiliation, Hillary showed up at the gathering wearing a defiant shade of red.” Mike Barnicle, guest on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, Jan. 23, 2008 “[W]hen she reacts the way she reacts to Obama with just the look, the look toward him, looking like everyone’s first wife standing outside a probate court, OK?” Maureen Dowd, The New York Times, Jan. 23, 2008 “It’s odd that the first woman with a shot at becoming president is so openly dependent on her husband to drag her over the finish line.” Tucker Carlson, MSNBC’s Tucker, Jan. 22, 2008 “It takes a lot of guts for a rich, privileged white lady who is one of the most powerful people in the world to claim that she is a victim of gender discrimination… . She hasn’t driven her own car in almost 20 years and she’s a victim of discrimination? I mean can’t we both agree that’s just BS?” Gail Collins, The New York Times, Jan. 10, 2008. “The women whose heart went out to Hillary knew that it wasn’t rational… . they gave her a sympathy vote.” Chris Matthews, guesting on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, Jan. 9, 2008 “Let’s not forget — and I’ll be brutal — the reason she’s a U.S. senator, the reason she’s a candidate for president, the reason she may be a front-runner is her husband messed around. That’s how she got to be senator from New York.” I really don’t want the media picking my President.
By Nancy Allen on 04/09/2008 9:22 pm