Conversation | 08/14/2009 12:00 am
The wOw Conversation: The Summer of '69 … and Then Some
From the summer of ‘69 to the winter of ‘98, Mary Wells, Judith Martin and Liz Smith cover nearly three decades of media memories, from Woodstock to Judith Exner to Monica Lewinsky and more
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MARY: Woodstock? It never happened to me. I had opened my own company in ‘66 and it was extremely successful, thank God, and I was working 24 hours a day and Woodstock just sort of floated by me. People talked about it and I kept wondering what was so great. Everything I saw looked so messy, so muddy, so drunken … I couldn’t figure out what everybody thought was so important about it. But I guess it really was if you experienced it.
LIZ: Well, we were ladies who had been upwardly mobile from poor beginnings. And I know that in the 1960s, I was able to go to restaurants and not look at the price on the menu for the first time in my life. And I don’t think I was concerned about all of that youthful revolt going on around me. And I certainly didn’t want to wear those kinds of clothes because they reminded me of the clothes I’d worn during the Depression. We can’t deny that it was part of a whole moment, that it has an enormous effect – you still see people dressing that way on the street.
MARY: And they’re still thinking that way.
JUDITH: Well, Woodstock passed me by also, because we had our gatherings here that were not quite so jolly but were, I would think, a lot more interesting – protest marches, civil rights marches. Our living room was often full of people camping out because they’d come down from elsewhere to participate in this, and I was sent out to cover a lot of these things – or help cover. I was never the main person on them. But for us in Washington, it was a decade of political turmoil, the civil rights movement and the beginning of the feminist revival – not of "blissing out" or whatever the term was at the time.
LIZ: I thought that particular time was really quite newsworthy and I was riveted by all that was going on. There were the Manson murders, which changed the whole atmosphere of Hollywood. It made people afraid who had never been afraid before. And wasn’t that when Teddy Kennedy drove off the bridge, in 1969? That was really sort of the end of the ongoing Kennedy dynasty. I mean, they keep going but that was the end of having another Kennedy president.
MARY: Yes, the end of the dream.
LIZ: And The Apollo moonwalk. You know, there are still people who believe that was faked and there never were any people on the moon.
MARY: And the ten-year anniversary of Bill Clinton’s Grand Jury investigation where he finally admitted he had his relationship with Monica Lewinsky … and there’s Monica Lewinsky – she is now 35 years old – and she has disappeared, and no one knows where she is anymore.
LIZ: She took the brunt for women of all of the men and their wives who "denounced the other woman." She was just a kid, for Pete’s sake. I knew Monica Lewinsky and I felt so sorry for her. I remember being with her at the Vanity Fair party right after all of that and, you know, she was just a curiosity with everybody lining up to be photographed with her. And she finally fled the United States and went to England and worked on a master’s degree in something or other. And I don’t know what has happened to her. But I think that she was really pilloried in that and you have to always remember – she never blew the whistle on Bill Clinton. He should have been so grateful to her. She just made the mistake of telling a friend about it, who taped it and blew the whistle herself.
LIZ: Well, we were ladies who had been upwardly mobile from poor beginnings. And I know that in the 1960s, I was able to go to restaurants and not look at the price on the menu for the first time in my life. And I don’t think I was concerned about all of that youthful revolt going on around me. And I certainly didn’t want to wear those kinds of clothes because they reminded me of the clothes I’d worn during the Depression. We can’t deny that it was part of a whole moment, that it has an enormous effect – you still see people dressing that way on the street.
MARY: And they’re still thinking that way.
JUDITH: Well, Woodstock passed me by also, because we had our gatherings here that were not quite so jolly but were, I would think, a lot more interesting – protest marches, civil rights marches. Our living room was often full of people camping out because they’d come down from elsewhere to participate in this, and I was sent out to cover a lot of these things – or help cover. I was never the main person on them. But for us in Washington, it was a decade of political turmoil, the civil rights movement and the beginning of the feminist revival – not of "blissing out" or whatever the term was at the time.
LIZ: I thought that particular time was really quite newsworthy and I was riveted by all that was going on. There were the Manson murders, which changed the whole atmosphere of Hollywood. It made people afraid who had never been afraid before. And wasn’t that when Teddy Kennedy drove off the bridge, in 1969? That was really sort of the end of the ongoing Kennedy dynasty. I mean, they keep going but that was the end of having another Kennedy president.
MARY: Yes, the end of the dream.
LIZ: And The Apollo moonwalk. You know, there are still people who believe that was faked and there never were any people on the moon.
MARY: And the ten-year anniversary of Bill Clinton’s Grand Jury investigation where he finally admitted he had his relationship with Monica Lewinsky … and there’s Monica Lewinsky – she is now 35 years old – and she has disappeared, and no one knows where she is anymore.
LIZ: She took the brunt for women of all of the men and their wives who "denounced the other woman." She was just a kid, for Pete’s sake. I knew Monica Lewinsky and I felt so sorry for her. I remember being with her at the Vanity Fair party right after all of that and, you know, she was just a curiosity with everybody lining up to be photographed with her. And she finally fled the United States and went to England and worked on a master’s degree in something or other. And I don’t know what has happened to her. But I think that she was really pilloried in that and you have to always remember – she never blew the whistle on Bill Clinton. He should have been so grateful to her. She just made the mistake of telling a friend about it, who taped it and blew the whistle herself.
Read more about: 1969, Anniversary, Bill Clinton, Culture, Entertainment, Judith Exner, Lifestyle, Monica Lewinsky, Woodstock
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The so called "Hidden Dragon" in this country, I would argue, is fear. It manifests itself in certain prejudices, in religion, in self esteem, in fear of government take-over, and especially now in job loss. Violence can certainly stem from this fear. As for sex: Remember the line in "Moonstruck" when the question was asked, "Why do men chase other women"? Answer: Because they fear death. I always laughed at that line, but perhaps there is some truth to it. Fear , like prejudice is generated many times by ignorance; we fear what we don’t know. The way to slay this dragon is through education––on all levels.
Fallen women, and I include myself, are able to rise up, dust off, and begin again. Forgiveness happens.
I so do agree with you.I love many lines in that terrific movie, and try to quote verbatim from it, but my memory is wilting. As for the subject of fear, what is alarming is that the ugly outbursts and damaging opinions are never followed or introduced by an admission that the speaker is fearful. There is no irony in our politics. The fears multiply, the rhetoric increases, and there is an explosive confrontation—which could have remained a civil discourse; we have our differences with others, which is human, but the "other" becomes the "dangerous stranger," truly alarming to me.
For example, as a much older woman, I’m often witness and listener to the tirade on the advent of wrinkles, disabilities, loneliness (ageism is prevalent), and other consequences of aging which make us seniors so "dangerous" and awful, so I ask:"What is the alternative?" But, I realize their cruelties are signs of young’uns’ fear of death, eh?
We seniors––and I hate that term––how about mature citizens––tend to agree on many things, it seems. Thanks for your reply. I tend to ignore all the hoopla about the demise of older people. Back to "Moonstruck", an absolutely perfect film: I write everything down––here’s some quotes:
"Old man, you give those dogs one more piece of my food, I’m going to kick you till you’re dead."
"Do you love him, Loretta?"
"I love him, awful, Ma."
"Oh, that’s too bad!"
"Bella Luna!"––the dogs howling at the moon.
"I LOVE you, Loretta!"
"Well, SNAP out of it!"
"Snap out of it" is my favorite term of all times, but often I misquote and substitute another verb, because I’ve forgotten the correct one.
I, too, choke a little on "we seniors," but I haven’t found a suitable term. Though I’ve never been nervous or self-conscious about my age, perhaps living in a large metropolis, where I often encounter younger people alerts me to the perils of being older; however, ageism is rampant in many circumstances, sometimes non-verbal, sometimes downright rude, and often, so blatant that it takes my breath away; for instance, being made invisible in stores, waiting rooms, on buses, trains, you know the drill. And, frankly, younger women are worse than young men. Fending for myself because I have no partner is sometimes daunting, for there is no one to share the effects of insensitive treatment.
Actually, my children are giving me an 80th birthday party next Sunday, and most of the guests I’ve selected are younger and much younger who have remained friends and in contact for years; my generation, on the whole, is either too tired, or does not mix well with new acquaintances and remain insular whenever they are introduced to "outsiders" beyond their comfort zone. Many of my former colleagues and current friends are close to my children’s ages. Or the most important issue is that I have been a very independent older single for more than 20 years after a long marriage while they are still couples, so socially I am a persona non grata. I call them "the twosie club." For this party, I selected carefully, removing those who never invite me, but dash to my home whenever I extend invitations (I’m a good cook & like to entertain). Well, good bye to all that, I say.
Shirley, how much wisdom in your words. You are just a young active person, which one can be at any age, instead of someone who is stuck in the numbers game. If you don’t use it, you lose it; so clearly you have used it and retain it. When I am feeling at all daunted I think of all kinds of role models, including my aunt who leanred a new language at the age of 87; my uncle who was up on the roof doing repairs at the age of 85 with his friend, 93; the Italian Jewish scientist who is 100 and a lifetime member of the parliament who recently said that she thinks better now than when she was 20; and a man I just read about who was…108…and a language teacher and linguist and was working on his umpteenth book when he passed away. Imagine that. One hundred and eight and writing a language book.
Loretta Young got married for the second time when she was 80 so you just might want to consider giving someone the chance. Whatever you do, whether one or two, you have my back.
Phyllis, you hit on one of my alltime favorite movies. Incredibly insightfully written. So the rest of that quote, which really sums it up, is:
"Oh, that’s too bad, when you love them they drive you crazy, because they know they can."
That certainly sums up love.
Here’s to the wolf in all of us!!!
For me, the mid sixties were both wonderful and worrisome times. I was in high school and loving every minute of that experience. I have brothers. At that time, one was graduating from the university, and we were all so worried he would be drafted and sent to Vietnam. We watched the news clips nightly and heard the reports. The war was escalating at that time.
There were so many events happening in succession. The race riots. Kennedy’s assassinastion. The three civil rights workers went missing. Cassius Ckay was floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee. People were building bomb shelters. The music has stood the test of time. Jefferson Airplane, Jimmy Hendricks, Janis Joplin and Big Brother and the Holding Company. Madras shirts and bell bottoms and peace signs and lava lamps.
What an era!
It has been said that "there are no second acts" in life; to which some wise person responded that, in American life, there are nothing BUT second acts! We do have a short memory and a seemingly bottomless capacity to (a) forgive, (b) forget and (c) root for the underdog. In Ms. Lewinsky’s case, she conducted herself since That Episode with a lot of dignity and reserve. As far as I know, she has not been snapped by paparazzi staggering out of a club at 4:00am; she has not written a lurid tell-all to extend her fifteen minutes of fame; she has not managed to betray HER friends by taping their supposedly private conversations and running the tapes over to their political enemies. She made a life for herself, and good for her.
In terms of Woodstock, I never made it to the festivities either, since I was having a kidney removed after years of problems that couldn’t be resolved in any other manner. I watched the news coverage on the TV in my room post-surgery, and even through the Demerol haze, I said to myself, I said, "Self, sitting in the rain and mud for three days even to hear this great music would not be for you." But when two of my friends dropped by the hospital to visit me as they drove back to New York City post-Woodstock, I was ready to feel jealous that they had been there and I had not. (Although the nursing staff was less than thrilled when two mud-caked and exhausted people invaded the polished halls of the post-surgical unit!) Those were the days, my friends / We thought they’d never end.
Woodstock…….I had planned to go with my friends, BUT my father had committed me to attend a dinner given by the General running Fort Meyer so I could be the date of a West Point First Classman who was visiting the post. (My mother had visions of me falling in love with the First Classman and marrying into the Army.)
I was furious because the last thing I wanted to do was get dressed up in formal attire and spend an evening with the Army. My father and I had a huge disagreement and he won. I went to the dinner, sat next to the West First Classman at a lovely meal in the General’s Quarters, followed by dancing at the Officer’s Club.
A dream evening, however, the first words we both said to each other when we were introduced were: (he said) I’m engaged to a wonderful girl in Iowa and I only have eyes for her. (I said) I don’t want to be here, I want to be at Woodstock.
The West Point First Classman didn’t know what I was talking about. We made a truce for the evening, performed our roles and shook hands at the end of the evening. He went back to the barracks to write a long love letter to his fiancee and I went home wishing I had stolen away in my friend’s car to Woodstock. I knew, even at that time, that I was missing a great party.