Liz Smith: Michael Jackson and Drugs — Who Didn’t Know?! And Can Dr. Conrad Murray Really Be Blamed?

Michael Jackson and his controversial doctor, Conrad Murray

And more from our Gossip Girl: Liz covers Bette Midler’s Hulaween Gala

“THERE WILL be a rain dance Friday night, weather permitting,” said George Carlin.

* * *

YESTERDAY I wrote a little bit about observing the Michael Jackson-Dr. Conrad Murray trial in L.A.

It reminded me of a Vanity Fair story way back in 1995 by that excellent sleuth Maureen Orth. This article dealt with vagaries in Michael’s life — for instance the controversial Diane Sawyer ABC-TV interview with Michael and his momentary bride, Lisa Marie Presley. (This was when there was a $30 million dollar marketing campaign for Jackson’s double album “HIStory.” The talented singer-dancer was still standing accused of having paid a hefty price to stop charges of molestation of a 13-year-old boy. And the statute of limitations said the case could be reopened anytime before 1999, although ABC didn’t get that part quite right.)

This was all pretty heady stuff, and it careened into further unquenchable morbidities, a divorce from the still-silent-on-the-details, still loyal Ms. Presley … another 2005 molestation trial from which Michael emerged “not guilty” but seeming to be guilty of something … and the wonderment and suspicion down the years until Michael tragically died from an overdose in 2009.

Let me just say that “in the business,” everybody pretty much believed after the year 1978 — when Michael performed onscreen in “The Wiz” — that this vastly gifted performer was not only “on” something but majorly confused by reality. One has only to observe him shopping for gaudy expensive baubles in the 2003 Martin Bashir documentary to realize he was living both a dream and a nightmare.

I not only attended the Elizabeth Taylor wedding to Larry Fortensky and watched Michael walk her down the aisle at Neverland, but I had met Michael on his debut movie set. Then, I heard more than enough about him in the years in between. And I learned more, especially while visiting a popular dermatologist (recommended by just about everybody in Hollywood) named Arnie Klein. His office helper was Deborah Rowe, who I also met and later interviewed. She became the surrogate mother for Michael’s children Prince and Paris, but who knows? Today, all I remember is that Michael’s drug-taking, in addition to everything else, was a known fact.

Re-reading the magazine piece that appeared in 1995, written by Ms. Orth, I find this little nugget, which I had totally forgotten: “Liz Smith has reported that Jackson wanted Princess Diana to be with him on the Sawyer interview, to commiserate about the sufferings imposed by tabloid coverage, and that he queried the British Embassy in Washington about being knighted by the Queen for ‘his work with little children.’ According to an observer, he actually was working behind the scenes to see if the Queen would knight him right there on “PrimeTime Live.” This was one demand that was not met.”

This item alone, if it could have been proved, indicates that Michael Jackson often worked from a position of specific delusions of grandeur that obviated everything else.

His drug taking increased along with his tabloid positives and negatives. So, given that drugs became the almighty escape from his delusions, it seems logical that this tortured genius of a performer might well have given himself the dose of Propofol that Dr. Murray was denying him.

The doctor is his own worst enemy on the witness stand, but I’m hoping he gets off. Enough already!

* * *

IT WAS thrilling to see, talk to and get a hug from the one and only Bette Midler on the night of her Hulaween gala, benefiting New York Restoration Project, which happens at the Waldorf each year near Halloween.

Ms. Midler is largely recovered from the back and neck problems besetting her earlier. She looked terrific, all togged out as the “Bavarian Bride of the Dead” in the charity event that raises millions annually.

In her black costume fitted with skulls and lights twinkling on her behind, Bette went on to celebrate with Stevie Wonder in a crowd that totally “dressed” for the evening. There were a clutch of people made up as flies. There were witches, devils, vampires and, shining in the middle, a girl wearing the Pan Am blue uniform. Chairwoman Margo Nederlander was glam as a pregnant Evita Peron, escorted by her “dictator” husband Jimmy.

Bette made her usual quip about starting it all by “picking up garbage” and saying of her own costume: “I must say, even dead I look fabulous.” Comic Judy Gold was much too tall and good-looking to be Chaz Bono but she was a big hit otherwise.

This is a great charity. It’s fun and it makes New York and environs look 2000% better.

37 comments so far.

  1. avatar Belinda Joy says:

    Michael Jackson – Liz, wow, I am so surprised that you think Dr. Murray should escape any punishment for this. 

    There are so many opinions I have that run counter to the rest of the world. I also know that I am not an island, so there are indeed others that may share my divergent opinions. But on this subject, I can honestly say I know I am REALLY in the minority. Most of the world loves either Michael or his talent or both. I however have struggled for years with appreciating his talent because of my belief that he was a pedophile. I choose to believe the boys that accused him of molestation. I’ve said it many times, if any one of us had a grown man in our neighborhood that liked to dress in sparkly military outfits or his pajamas in public, wore a ton of makeup (not associated with his job) erected a small amusement park in his backyard, his home was always filled with children - mostly little boys, boys who almost 100% were disabled in some way or from poor families, who not only had little boys sleeping over his home on a regular basis but sleeping IN HIS BED, in a bedroom that had a motion sensor alarm on it if anyone approached it……most of us would be alarmed.

    But because this same man can sing, dance and act he get’s a pass. He’s far to talented to abuse a little boy. “And look at his own childhood, he never really had one so he’s a big kid himself.”      Would you say the same if it was Charlie Matthews down the street who acts like a big kid? Charlie Matthews who likes to have little boys spend the night in his bed? Charlie Matthews who has been known to PAY the parents of little boys to allow their sons to sleep over? Of course you wouldn’t, yet we did this with Michael Jackson.

    Now we have Cirque performing a tribute to Michael Jackson. His music is still flying off the shelves (so to speak) and I for one am concerned by that. Because we didn’t actually see him having sex with a little boy we focus on his talent….and by doing so that it supposedly absolves him from guilt? I don’t think so.

    Dr. Murray contributed to Michael Jackson’s death by way of providing the drug….period. One of my friends said this is no different than a drug dealer who sells someone drugs and they die from it. The person taking the drug had a choice and they chose wrong. I disagree. A physician has a heightened degree of responsibility and they each take an oath when becoming a doctor. He knew (or should have known) the inherent cautions associated with the drug he administered to Michael Jackson. Just like any serious drug he (being a highly paid professional – boutique physician) should have used extra care with that drug. So even if….giving him the benefit of the doubt Michael administered it himself, it was Dr. Murray that put the medication in his home and made it available to him.

    A medication that he knew should only be administered under controlled conditions. So he is guilty any way you slice it. Michael may have been a druggie for decades, it sure seems that way. But let us not forgive nor ignore the fact he received all of the medication he has abused over the years by supposed medical doctors that are suppose to operate with a level of professionalism that a street corner drug dealer is not held to. Michael in my opinion was a pedophile and for that he disgusts me. He had an affect on the minds and psyches of countless boys who no doubt to this day are now torn and conflicted within. However, he didn’t need to die for his sins. And he certainly didn’t need to die in the manner he did. Someone should finally be held to task for their actions and Dr.Murray, given his extreme neglect of duties, should pay.

    I respect and adore you Liz, but on this one subject we are miles apart in how we think.           

    • avatar TheTexasMom says:

      Belinda, totally off topic here but growing up in Central L.A. there was a man, who built a playground oasis in his back yeard, had a monkey he carried around and passed out candy to the neighborhood children.  No, he did not wear make-up nor did he dress in shiny military clothing.   As odd as he was I never thought too much about it until I was an adult.   I’ve asked my cousins both male and female if he ever tired anything odd (I was an only child until I was 15) and they all said no. Maybe we were the lucky ones or maybe he was just an odd ducklling.

      With that being said, some days I think MJ was guilty  and some days I think not.   Only he, his acussers and God knows for sure.   Just as Conrad Murray knows what he did or didn’t do.   The doctor needs an intervention of his own.   Paying child support to 6 different women?  Seriously?

  2. avatar Barbara says:

    Belinda, I agree with you on Michael Jackson. Agree on his appearance of guilt around the child molestation issue, the willingness of everyone to look the other way because of his talent, and on the guilt of Dr. Murray. Did Dr. Murray supply a drug that was only to be used in a hospital setting? Yes. Guilty. Doesn’t matter if he gave the fatal dose, if Michael Jackson was on other drugs as well, or Michael Jackson somehow gave it to himself, Murray provided it and it caused his death. I honestly can’t see another truthful outcome for this trial but juries never cease to surprise me.

  3. avatar Lila says:

    Doctors unfortunately are too often bent to the wills of either their patients or of Big Pharma, or both. Just look at Octomom…. she asked for procedures, she had the money somehow, so the doctor did what she wanted – no common sense required. Or Heidi Montag… she wanted the surgery, the doctor wanted the money; why let good medicine get in the way of such a great match? Now she is the poster child for patient-with-money getting a lot of dangerous and unnecessary things done and then claiming she did not realize that there would be a lot of regrettable after-effects. Then there are scads of ordinary patients who “ask their doctor” about drugs advertised on TV, or doctors who “suggest” them even though their patients may not want them or their side effects.

    Against this backdrop of on-demand, for-profit… um… medicine is really not the right word here… is it any wonder that we also have cases like Michael Jackson’s? He is just one extreme example out of many, many patients demanding, and abusing, prescriptions they probably do not need.

  4. avatar Baby Snooks says:

    I actually feel sorry for Michael Jackson – he was doomed from the moment his father heard the cash register ringing which is the problem for most if not all the “child stars” in the entertainment industry.  They become ATMs. For the friends as well as the family. The friends, family, and other assorted strangers.

    I will forever be appalled by Deepak Chopra stating on Larry King that he had confronted Michael Jackson about the drug abuse and refused to prescribe for him the way his other doctors did. And yet Deepak Chopra did not contact the family to attempt an intervention or report the other doctors to the authorities which might have forced the issue if the family refused to do so which might have saved his life. Beware the gods and gurus. Particularly Deepak Chopra. 

    The question of Elizabeth Taylor is a question no one really has an answer to although her “tete-tete” with Arnie Klein on Twittter, before someone grabbed the laptop, pretty much indicates she blinded herself to reality as much as Michael Jackson did and was as much a victim of the friends, family and other assorted strangers as he was.  Beware the gods and gurus. And the entourages.

    One thing not brought up in the trial is the possibility that someone other than Conrad Murray or Michael Jackson himself administered that deadly “extra” Propofol. In which case someone got away with murder. And left Conrad Murray as the fall guy. Knowing perhaps that he would be.  Michael Jackson had been using Propofol before Conrad Murray arrived on the scene. And had been using it for some time with no problems under the care of Conrad Murray. So it obviously was not, with “normal use,” as dangerous for Michael Jackson as everyone beleves it was. And it does seem as if Conrad Murray was attempting to wean him off the Propofol along with everything else. His real negligence was not calling 911 immediately and not informing the paramedics that he had been administering Propofol in addition to Lorazepam. It probably would not have made any difference. But the point is he did not do so. Which will forever leave doubt as to his not having done so. But probably not in the minds of the jury and that act alone constitutes “negligent homicide” by the “act of omission” by Conrad Murray.  And he is guilty of that.

    As for the Jacksons themselves and their using Conrad Murray as their fall guy, and none of them really cared for Michael despite their public proclamations that they did, I will take Conrad Murray’s charitable acts in Houston’s Acres Homes community over any of the supposed charitable acts by that family including the supposed charitable acts by Michael Jackson. 

    That said, I hope the jury finds him guilty. Because he is guilty of the act of omission in his care of Michael Jackson. But I hope the jury then asks why all the other doctors who are guilty of acts of commission, in their continued provision of addictive drugs to a known addict, have not been similarly charged.  I already know the answer. Just as we have banks too big to fail we have doctors who are too important to indict. 

  5. avatar JCF4612 says:

    Yes, Michael Jackson was delusional and an addict. But after behaving so irresponsibly with dispensing Propofol in a non-hospital setting, Conrad Murray needs to be convicted, jailed and permanently stripped of his license to practice medicine in any state. He’s a danger to all who might be able to pony up his exorbitant “drugs for pay” fees. And he needs to serve as an example to the boatload of other physicians out there like him.     

    • avatar rick gould says:

      I totally agree.
      While we are all ultimately responsible for our own lives, Murray went beyond the pale (no pun intended) with Jackson.
      It’s one thing to be aware that your patient is doctor shopping and to go along with it. But it’s another to provide the patient with something that is meant to be used in a hospital for surgery.
      Murray basically sold his soul for $150K a month. It also cost a patient his life.

      • avatar Baby Snooks says:

        If you look closely at the testimony and the evidence, the “records” in particular, Conrad Murray was obviously attempting to “wean” Michael Jackson off of everything. Which is more than any other doctor would have done. Which was more than any other doctor had done. Particularly the doctors who kept prescribing to a known addict. They should be on trial. Not Conrad Murray.  Michael Jackson found Conrad Murray through one of his bodyguards who were in fact supplied by Jermaine Jackson. So Jermaine Jackson knows more than he’s telling. As do others.  Conrad Murray probably knows more also than he’s telling. And probably is afraid to.  A nasty family the Jacksons.  Capable of almost anything.  And they should be careful when they start talking about how Michael was worth more dead than he was alive. He was worth more dead to them as well.  LAPD may have decided nbot to pursue some “odd things” but others took note anyway. Like Janet Jackson pulling up with a U-Haul hours after Michael died and removing garbage sacks from the house. So she was the maid and it was trash day?  Someone most likely did adminster a fatal dose of Propofol. But it wasn’t Conrad Murray. Might have been Michael Jackson himself. Or might not have been.  Conrad Murray was the only one who didn’t have a motive. Everyone else did.

      • avatar jsjm51 says:

        Baby Snooks – you are listening to his statement about “weaning” Michael.  If that were the truth — why did Murray purchase 4 gallons of the stuff.  There was no weaning going on — Murray was covering himself. 

      • avatar Baby Snooks says:

        Conrad Murray “stockpiled” it to ensure he had enough on hand in London whre he wouldn’t have been able to order it and the only way Michael Jackson would have been able to do 31 concerts was if he was able to sleep and the only way he could sleep was with Propofol. He was addicted to it as well. But was addicted to it before he met Conrad Murray. Two doctors in Germany “introduced” him to it. In 2007.  Who was supplying it to him between 2007 and 2009 hasn’t been brought up during the trial for some reason. Which makes some wonder why it hasn’t been.

        Even if he had been hospitalized Michael Jackson cold not have gone “cold turkey” and it would have bankrupted AEG and also Michael Jackson. So even if Conrad Murray had suggested it, they would have refused. Both AEG and Michael Jackson. There were lots of things not brought up. Lots of things the judge said could not be brought up. 

        You can believe what you want.  I choose to believe otherwise. The only thing Conrad Murray is guilty of is not calling 911 immediately and not informing the paramedics that Michael Jackson had been given Lorazepam and Propofol although I suppose he is also guilty of assuming that because Michael Jackson had been using Propofol for two years without any problems that there would be no problems. And suddenly there was a problem. Maybe he just “freaked out” as people do in these types of situations. That does not ecuse his not calling 911 or informing the paramedics that Michael Jackson had been givenn Lorazepam and Propofol. It wasn’t illegal. Just foolish.

      • avatar jsjm51 says:

        Baby S, it’s not a question of believing what I want to believe just because but you are missing the big picture.  It doesn’t matter who was putting Michael Jackson under at any other time, Conrad Murray was the one doing it and Michael died on his watch.  It doesn’t matter whether he was addicted to it or not either.  If there is a heroin addict who asks you to shoot him or her up and you agree and that person dies — yes he/she asked for it but you did it and that person died from you doing it.  It wouldn’t matter how many times he/she had done it in the past — the bottom line is you were the one that administered the fatal dose.  Do you think the family of that person is just going to say that it was ok because they had done it many times in the past so he/she deserved it.  Absolutely not!  Another question, you are having a procedure that involves you being put under with propofol.  You are out — how would you feel to find out that the entire staff walked out of the room and left you under sedation while they went to lunch for an hour and then came back to check on you.  It so outrageous that there are no words.  And as far as Murray freaking out — I’m sure that came into play very quickly.  Can you imagine being the one that was going to be tied with the death of Michael Jackson?  However, he looked out for himself.  I don’t care if Michael was DOA when Murray came in the room.  He should have done the right thing and called 911 first and foremost and then worried about the rest of it later.  He further should have told all medical staff what he had administered.  At least then he would walk away with credibility.  He is a medical doctor for heaven’s sake — not some lay person and he knew what his responsibility was. 

  6. avatar TinaMarie59 says:

    Liz Smith, you are an ignorant person. Just a lousy gossip hag. In typical yellow journalistic fashion, you choose to not look at FACTS–your career was built on nothing but rumors and gossip. I hope Murray IS found guilty; I doubt he’ll get jail time, but hopefully at the very least that greedy, hack of a doctor loses his license.And byt the way, educate your little mind on Michael Jackson and the FALSE allegations made by 2 very intelligent, lying
    not-so-little boys  who went along with their scam artists families, with promises of the riches to be had. One hit the jackpot (not by Michael’s choosing), and one ended up with nothing, thankfully.  

  7. avatar jsjm51 says:

    Oh my gosh – Liz Smith I have to agree with TinaMarie59.  How many of you people that have commented on here have actually done any amount of research?  And I mean not the ridiculous Maureen Orth article.  Not one of the things that idiotic woman said in any of her articles on Michael Jackson had any truth to it nor could any of it be verified.  One of the children she wrote about even came out with his father and both of them stated emphatically that everything Maureen Orth vomited out in her article was a lie.  Vanity Fair chose to stand by its story any way.  Why?  Because it was negative about Michael Jackson.  I have watched you Liz on other things and you are an outdated, opinionated, arrogant hag.  I’m sorry to be so negative, but I am sick and tired of people being allowed under the First Amendment to write anything they want about Michael Jackson.  I am not a die hard Michael Jackson fan; however, after his death I began heavily researching anything I could get my hands on about him and came to the conclusion that Michael Jackson was a mark for greedy people.  Did he make good choices such as after 1993 allowing grifter families to come and stay at his ranch and further allowing them anywhere near his main house and especially his bedroom?  NO!  Sadly, the one person he always had with him was Frank Cascio during the Arvizo spectacle and your dear friend Tom Sneddon made sure Cascio was unable to testify by naming him as a co-conspirator to the ridiculous conspiracy charge.  Michael was found not guilty on all counts.  Why?  Because no one believed anything the family said. 

    It has nothing to do with Michael’s talent.  No one gets a pass for child molestation.  But why is it never considered that maybe, just maybe he was innocent and was put through the wringer by jealous, greedy individuals who wanted nothing more than to see him fall.  He was the most famous person on the plant and according to his one-time publicist Howard Bloom — he was the best person in the entertainment industry.  Bloom had worked with the elite in Hollywood and said not a one of them held a candle to Michael Jackson as a person (not just an entertainer).  Bloom went on to say that after Thriller the dark forces began circling and that was when the negative reporting started.  It snowballed because no one in the media wanted to not be reporting whatever else was being reported on Michael Jackson for fear of being scooped.  Partial truths and flat out lies were printed as fact (as illustrated by Maureen Orth). 

    Regarding his many plastic surgeries — no Michael Jackson did not need to have one surgery.  He was an extremely handsome man; however, he didn’t feel handsome and when you couple that with loss of hair, loss of pigment, lupus and his battles with something akin to pleurisy — who are any of us to judge anything?

    Get a life Liz!

    • avatar Baby Snooks says:

      A verdict of not guilty doesn’t always mean a verdict of innocent. Some just like to believe it does. Easy to cause doubt when you are allowed to try the victim.  Which all too often you are allowed to in our justice system which is indeed blind at times. Blind to the machinations and manipulations of criminal defense attorneys who are looking at million dollar fees.

      Some have paid blackmail to keep false allegations from being made public. No one pays blackmail once the allegations have been made public.  Mainly because it gives the perception that you are guilty but also because it invites someone else to do the same thing. Which may have been what happened to Michael Jackson the second time. But not the first time. In any case, few doubt he had a “little problem” which should have been addressed the first time.  Along with his addiction problem. But, well, mustn’t disrupt the flow at the ATM.

      Some of us are fed up with the lies of the friends, family and other assorted strangers and find Liz Smith’s candor a refreshiing change from the “canned crap” the Jackson family is putting out there everywhere they can.  The family obviously knows nothing about addiction. Or about pedophilia.  But they do know about protecting their product.

      • avatar jsjm51 says:

        No Baby Snooks, I guess there is truth to your statement.  Not all people who are charged with crimes and found innocent actually are innocent; however, how do you discount that the mother of that family sought an attorney first before making any allegations?  How do you discount the fact that they had scammed not only other entertainers, but JC Penney in order to get money?  How do you further discount the fact that the entire time the son was in the hospital for treatment that was completely covered by his father’s insurance – the mother was soliciting money through various organizations claiming they needed help paying medical bills and then used the money for plastic surgery.  (Everything I have just said is in the court transcripts — not rumor, not innuendo as Belinda likes to quote).  You explain all of that away and then tell me that Michael Jackson actually waited until after the ridiculous documentary aired to begin to molest that kid.  You then further explain to me how after finding out that the timeline the boy gave for molestation was during a time that Michael Jackson wasn’t even at Neverland so they pack of liars had to change the dates for the indictment.  So please don’t even go there. 

        If out of the thousands of children around Michael Jackson during his lifetime – any one of them came out and made accusations that weren’t looking for money I might have a different view of things — but when it comes to money people will do anything just like the Chandlers, the Arvizos and the Francia kid.  All 3 sought money. 

        You will then have to go back further and explain why the Chandlers sought money over justice.  Explain Evan Chandler’s taped phone conversation where he is telling his ex-wife’s husband that he is angry because his ex-family now wants to spend more time with MJ than with him and how Michael had quit calling him and that angered him so he was going to “put his plan into action” with the meanest attorney he could find to take Michael Jackson down.  If you truly think that was a father who felt that his son has been molested — you’re delusional. 
        Now as far as Michael’s issue with medications – there is more credible evidence about that than anything else.  But for Liz Smith to write a post that clearly is meant to be derrogatory is disappointing — but you find it refreshing.  Good for you!

    • avatar Belinda Joy says:

      JSJM51, No, actually it is you that needs to get your facts right. 

      Michael has paid out countless parents to allow their sons to sleep over his home, in his bed, in a security ladened bedroom that had alarms on the door. The only room in his house may I add that had such alarms on it. This was covered in interviews that he himself gave, on video for all the world to see. He has admitted that countless boys have spent the night, in his bed and made the comment “It is the most natural thing in the world to share your bed with a child” Problem is, he wasn’t referring to any of ”his” children at the time.

      It was a convenient rouse he used in terms of justifying the monies he was constantly giving to the parents of boys that slept over because most were poor or barely getting by. It was labeled as a contribution. Not a payoff, but a contribution. Again, how convenient.

      Personally, depending on the author, I am always skeptical when reading a “slice and dice” article on a celebrity or notable. I always look first at whether they have a reason to be biased. Then I look at if what they are writing can be backed up by hard evidence, video or audio of the event(s) being alledged. In this instance when it comes to Michael’s behavior with boys, it is WELL documented and substaniated from his own mouth. He was a pedophile IMO. He did things with young boys in his home that he should not have done IMO. He was a twisted and deeply confused man….not boy…..but man. And he deserved to be treated as a predator just as much as any other man that preys on young boys.

      Again, I would caution you or anyone that respects and admires Michael Jackson as much as you do to not allow your love of his talents to over shadow the fact he was human with human problems and demons. He wasn’t attacked in the media just because he was the star he was. He was attacked in the media because he did things, said things, acted in a way that called for those negative comments to be made.   

                 

      • avatar jsjm51 says:

        Oh my gosh Belinda – you haven’t researched a thing — you have just bought into the trash that the media has thrown out there.  That is what is so disheartening!  You are not repeating the truth.  Where on earth have you ever seen in writing and not just something you’ve heard that he has paid out countless parents to allow their sons to sleep over his home, in his bed, in a security ladened bedroom that had alarms on the door? 

        It will do no good to try to actually get you to not be lazy enough to do some research on the subject if that’s you take on it.  You are taking his statement that he saw nothing wrong with sharing his bed and running with it as if he actually said that he paid parents to sleep with their children.  That’s disgusting in itself that you would actually not only think it, but repeat it.  He also said that there was never anything sexual ever! 

        If you don’t care for him based solely on his one statement that he saw nothing wrong with sleeping in the same vicinity as children because he grew up in that way (his words, not mine) and as a child was frequently sleeping in the same room as adults other than his parents (also his words, not mine) than own that and say that’s why you think the way you do.  Don’t make stuff up and pass it off as fact. 

      • avatar jsjm51 says:

        And when I say “in writing,” I mean something legitimate such as court documents that he signed off on, not tabloid or gossip garbage.  You and I both know you can’t!

  8. avatar Jerry says:

    Murray deserves 20 years minimum for killing the greatest entertainer that ever lived. He’ll be convicted, and I’m sure old man Joe Jackson will be on his tail for the rest of his life.

    • avatar Baby Snooks says:

      The reality is that old man Joe Jackson carries some responsibility as well. As reflected by Michael Jackson’s will. He knew his mother would take care of everyone including the old man. Michael for some reason chose not to. Quite revealing in itself. No doubt the children will take care of everyone after Katherine dies. But Michael didn’t.  At the moment everyone wonders who is taking care of everyone parading themselves on national television to portray Michael Jackson as a victim of Conrad Murray instead of a victim of them. The friends, family, and other assorted strangers.  

  9. avatar Mr. Wow says:

    If there was real justice here on earth, Mr. Jackson’s no-account parents, Joe and Katharine would be sitting next to Dr. Murray, up on charges.  And his talentless brothers, too. 

    I still don’t know what to think of him as a child molestor, but he certainly was an enabled drug addict.  His family and every “friend” was responsible.  Including Miss Taylor. 

    • avatar Baby Snooks says:

      First defense is a good offense. And the parents unfortunately provided a good offense. Attacking the victim, and his parents, worked well. Money talks. And buys good attorneys. Just ask OJ.  A lot of victims rights advocates, most of them former prosecutors, have a sfavorite saying. When money talks,  justice walks. I have never doubted for one minute that he molested the boys. Let a psychiatrist explain his “puberty” problem. Which then became a problem of pedophilia. He liked it.  The power and the control. Very sick. He needed help. Instead he was enabled. By the friends, family, and other assorted strangers. And the attorneys. But most attorneys don’t care about justice. They care about multi-million dollar fees they get for getting the guilty off the hook.

      A lot of people cut Elizabeth Taylor off when she announced “I was in bed with Michael and the boys.” It was, as they say, too much finally. She had issues of her own. And blinded herself to a lot of things. I don’t think she knew he was an addict. I truly believe she would have forced that issue had she known.  As for what she blinded herself to, the blinders came off with Arnie Klein finally. Who knows where she would have gone had they not grabbed the laptop. But she had her own friends, family, and other assorted strangers.  Just the same I think she found some peace at the end. Even with what she blinded herself to.

      • avatar Baby Snooks says:

        And Katherine Jackson. Another who blinded herself. But part of it is her faith.  She deferred to her husband.  Elizabeth Taylor and I had a mutual friend who also was friends with Katherine Jackson years ago when their kids were teenagers and Katherine Jackson tried to keep them just teenagers. As if as they say.  I never heard a bad word about Katherine Jackson. but she finally just stopped talking about the Jacksons altogether. Her faith.  If you can’;t think of something nice to say, don’t say anything. No one is ever 100% in their faith. But are in some things. And Katherine Jackson, unfortunately, was 100% about Joe Jackson. It was as it was as they say. So she just blinded herself. As I suppose we all do from time to time in our lives.

        I am an outdated, opinionated, arrogant hag like Liz Smith I suppose.  But we still have hearts believe it or not. And accept the things in life that are, well, just are what they are. Michael Jackson was what he was. And he was a mess. I feel sorry for him. I suspect Liz Smith does as well. But, well, in the end, he was a 50 year old man who enabled himself far more than anyone else. As it should with all addicts, the death certificate should have read “suicide.”   I feel sorry for Lindsay Lohan. But eventually if she doesn’t stop enabling herself she will also become a “suicide.”  They all do.

      • avatar TheTexasMom says:

        Baby, you never cease to amaze me.   You were buddies with Katherine Jackson while thinking she is one Bible verse short of being blinded by Joe Jackson, pittied Michael and thinks Janet is one wardrobe malfunction away from a slut.

        But the topper line is that you called Liz Smith an arrogant hag.  Good god woman, whose balls are you carryig in your purse?

      • avatar jsjm51 says:

        Texas Mom - B.S. was quoting me in regard to my comment about Liz Smith being an outdated, opinionated arrogant hag.  I just didn’t feel it was right for B.S. to take the blame for something I said in an earlier post.

      • avatar TheTexasMom says:

        Dang it!   My apology is below!

      • avatar LandofLove says:

        Is it really necessary to call anyone here “an outdated, opinionated, arrogant hag”? You’re entitled to your opinion, of course; but the minute the name calling starts, you turn people off and they dismiss your comments as petty and silly.

      • avatar jsjm51 says:

        Landoflove – it may not be necessary to use the labels; however I find it extremely interesting that you would choose to admonish me for use of those terms, but have no problem whatsoever for bloggers who label Michael Jackson a pedophile (which is a far more sinister label) based on personal perception or in another post labeling Janet Jackson as trashy and vulgar.  So, I’m guessing it’s only the labels being used on those whose opinions you agree with that you find offensive and are now labeling me as petty and silly.  Labels come in many forms. 
        I am just so very disappointed that people who have access to a mass audience such as Liz Smith would choose to include in her piece where she’s basically stating that everyone should have known Michael Jackson was on drugs, but then goes further to quote Maureen Orth, who like Smith, is able to garner a large audience and basically print things that were based on rumor rather than truth.  Ms. Smith went to to label Michael as delusional among other things. 
        As I stated previously this is not coming from someone who is a die hard Michael Jackson fan and thinks he was perfect.  This comes from really looking at everything I could after his death and basically seeing the shameful way in which those in the media chose to bully him for the last 2 decades.  When I read comments from someone such as Belinda wherein she actually made statements as though they were facts, yet they were not — I’m offended and just like you can make the response that I feel is appropriate.

    • avatar rick gould says:

      To Miss Taylor’s credit, she got him to go to rehab in the early/mid-90s, escorted him to rehab, basically… as all his celebrity friends deserted him after he was first accused of child molestation.

      And the whole idea of using propofol as a sleeping aid is insane, no matter who actually administered it. The thought just chills me to the bone.

      I also realize there’s a lot of grey area here, which is why I have refrained from the more inflammatory comments. But I believe two things are true. Nobody could have saved Michael, he seemed destined to end up like Judy, Marilyn and Elvis. Second, despite the varied opinions expressed here, I still believe that the Doctor does not deserve Dr. behind his name. He betrayed his oath for big bucks. And now he’s going to be remembered as the doctor who gave Michael anesthesia as a sleeping aid. Sad.

  10. avatar jsjm51 says:

    Well B.S. there is not much that anyone can say if your mind is made up based on circumstantial evidence.  I say circumstantial because as I stated in previous posts you have 2 families who came after him for money.  You have the settlement documents that the Chandlers signed along with Michael Jackson wherein it clearly states there is no sexual wrongdoing on his part, which was paid by his insurance company — not him. Both Evan and June signed off on it.  You have 3 grand juries that couldn’t find enough evidence to bring charges back in 1993.  You have the maid who after being accused of stealing, goes on Hard Copy and takes $20K and then with Sneddon’s help extorts another $2 million from Jackson.  No criminal charges brought then either even with Sneddon’s help.  So you can summize because of his “puberty” problem or whatever that he is a pedophile — problem is there is no concrete evidence that supports it.  So you are entitled to think whatever you choose to think.  It’s amazing that you speak as though you have first hand knowledge of things in his life and I have no idea if you do or you don’t.  But I do know that people are superficial in all walks of life and people that he considered friends turned their backs on him just because.  Tom Mesereau stated that a majority of the ones that were mourning at his funeral were the very same ones that didn’t want to have anything to do with him during his trial. 

    You say that what Conrad Murray did was not illegal, but just foolish.  I think it’s criminal to leave someone attached to an IV and leave the room knowing the dangers of anesthesia.  Well, what Michael Jackson did by allowing children anywhere near his home, especially after 1993 was very foolish, but not criminal.  It’s sad that people are so willing to judge him without never having known or spoken to him.  It’s sad that all of these families, and children that he spent time with have stated his behavior with and around their children was impeccable.  It’s even more sad that the mere accusation can completely tear someone’s life apart and absolutely heartbreaking that no matter what people are posting that he was a pedophile on blogs with no true knowledge.  

    It is also abundantly clear that you have an agenda regarding the Jackson family for some reason. 

    My entire reason for posting on this originally is the fact that your dear friend, Liz Smith, was quoting Maureen Orth in her article and Maureen Orth did not tell the truth in her article.  Since you have the inside track in Hollywood, maybe you know Stephen Spielburg.  Ask him if he believes Michael Jackson sacrificed cows in order to put a voodoo curse on him?  See what he says and then come back and tell me that anyone should be quoting Maureen Orth. 

    The rest of the posts always tend to go toward the same old tired nonsense that have no basis of fact, but rather a belief for one reason or another.  Just as you say, you have no doubt that he was a pedophile — yet you have no substantiated proof either.  As far as Elizabeth Taylor — I highly doubt she cared if anyone wanted nothing to do with her after saying she was in bed with Michael too.  Further, I highly doubt anyone really took it to the level of having nothing to do with her because of it either.     
      

        

  11. avatar TheTexasMom says:

    Oops, my bad!   My apologies Baby!!!

    • avatar Baby Snooks says:

      I know it’s fun to take pot shots at Baby Snooks. But it would help if the pot shotters would read the comments, all of them including the ones I am responding to, before firing. I’ve had a nice life. Have known a lot of “famous” people. Most, honestly, total jerks. But some total jewels. That seems to bother people. That I know people. Sorry. The way it was. And is. And to clarify your other pot shot I did not say I knew Katherine Jackson. I said I knew someone who did. Who never said anything bad about her. She was also friends with Elizabeth Taylor. And never really said anything bad about her either. She just stopped talking about her. Believing that “if you can’t think of something  nice to say, don’t say anything.”
      As for Janet Jackson I don’t recall implying she was a slut. I do recall making mention of the fact that I found her wearing what appeared to be a kung fu weapon attached to her breast and then having a “wardrboe malfunction” to “flash it” a little, well, disconcerting.  Despite her faith, Katherine Jackson obviously has not had it easy with regard to the children. 

      • avatar TheTexasMom says:

        I guess my sarcasm missed the mark because I found your post above quite funny.

        However you did call out Janet in a comment posted on October 13, 2033 around 9:59am and I quote:
        I agree with Peter Rogers. The ad is terrible, cheap and trashy. But then Janet Jackson, well, is terrible, cheap and trashy.
         

      • avatar Baby Snooks says:

        You’re from Texas and you don’t know that a woman can be terrible, cheap and trashy and still have a reputation intact as they say?  Maybe you’re a transplant. Some of the biggest fist fights in parking lots at bars in Texas are the result of a man who’s not from Texas thinking a woman looking terrible, cheap and trashy automatically will say yes. And finds the women in Texas often use their fists to say not if they left their pistol in the other purse at home.  Terrible, cheap and trashy does not equal slut. Not in Texas anyway.

        I don’t know if Janet Jackson is a slut. I also really don’t care. I don’t allow terrible, cheap and trashy at the dinner table. Or kung fu weapons. Regardless of where they’re hidden.

      • avatar Baby Snooks says:

        Men in Texas learn early not to bother with the “want to feel the pistol in my pocket?” line because women in Texas loko them dead in the eye and ask if they want to feel the pistol in their purse.

      • avatar TheTexasMom says:

        A transplant?!??  I’m crushed, even if it is true.   Not my fault my Texas born and breed parents decided to have me in Californa and not come back until I was 10!!  The last 46 years have been geat!