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Politics | 04/30/2009 9:15 am

Is Condoleezza Rice Like Nixon? Says Presidential Authorization Overrides Torture Rules (Video)

Former secretary of state says presidential authorization nulls convention against torture.
By The Staff at wowOwow.com
© AP

Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice echoed Richard Nixon this week when she told a Stanford student that presidential authorization essentially transcends existing laws.

Asked whether waterboarding is torture, Rice replied, "The United States was told, we were told, nothing that violates our obligations under the Convention Against Torture, and so by definition, if it was authorized by the president, it did not violate our obligations under the Convention Against Torture."

Many readers will recall that Nixon had a similar response when asked about Watergate, and told the reporter David Frost, "When the president does it, that means it is not illegal."

Rice also insisted that she did not authorize waterboarding: "I didn’t authorize anything. I conveyed the authorization of the administration to the agency, that they had policy authorization, subject to the Justice Department’s clearance. That’s what I did." A 2002 report, however, says Rice asked the CIA to pursue the interrogation method, which has been described as torture.

Watch, via The Huffington Post:

200 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

DeBúrca obj

In the face of much more dire times than these, the Father of Our Country had this to say about torture:"Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner] … I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause … . for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country." (George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775.)

By DeBúrca obj on 04/30/2009 11:29 am
deber B

That was quite lovely, Deburca.   My, my, how the world has changed since 1775!

Wonder how ole George Washington would’ve reacted to 9/11?  

By deber B on 04/30/2009 11:53 am
DeBúrca obj
George Washington was dealing with far worse than we are today. I am sure he wouldn’t have stooped to the same reprehensible practices, torture, that were performed on Americans at that time by the British. He believed in what he wanted this country to stand for, and that doesn’t change.
By DeBúrca obj on 04/30/2009 12:20 pm
deber B
Well, I can’t fault you for expressing your noble opinion.  
By deber B on 04/30/2009 12:36 pm
Kelly In Texas

Deber once again…with the facts!

By Kelly In Texas on 04/30/2009 9:27 pm
deber B
Torture? No. Except …

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, May 1, 2009

Torture is an impermissible evil. Except under two circumstances. The first is the ticking time bomb. An innocent’s life is at stake. The bad guy you have captured possesses information that could save this life. He refuses to divulge. In such a case, the choice is easy. Even John McCain, the most admirable and estimable torture opponent, says openly that in such circumstances, "You do what you have to do." And then take the responsibility.

Some people, however, believe you never torture. Ever. They are akin to conscientious objectors who will never fight in any war under any circumstances, and for whom we correctly show respect by exempting them from war duty. But we would never make one of them Centcom commander. Private principles are fine, but you don’t entrust such a person with the military decisions upon which hinges the safety of the nation. It is similarly imprudent to have a person who would abjure torture in all circumstances making national security decisions upon which depends the protection of 300 million countrymen.

The second exception to the no-torture rule is the extraction of information from a high-value enemy in possession of high-value information likely to save lives. This case lacks the black-and-white clarity of the ticking time bomb scenario. We know less about the length of the fuse or the nature of the next attack. But we do know the danger is great. (One of the "torture memos" noted that the CIA had warned that terrorist "chatter" had reached pre-9/11 levels.) We know we must act but have no idea where or how — and we can’t know that until we have information. Catch-22.

Under those circumstances, you do what you have to do. And that includes waterboarding. (To call some of the other "enhanced interrogation" techniques — face slap, sleep interruption, a caterpillar in a small space — torture is to empty the word of any meaning.)

Did it work? The current evidence is fairly compelling. George Tenet said that the "enhanced interrogation" program alone yielded more information than everything gotten from "the FBI, the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency put together."

Michael Hayden, CIA director after waterboarding had been discontinued, writes (with former attorney general Michael Mukasey) that "as late as 2006 … fully half of the government’s knowledge about the structure and activities of al-Qaeda came from those interrogations." Even Dennis Blair, Obama’s director of national intelligence, concurs that these interrogations yielded "high value information." So much for the lazy, mindless assertion that torture never works.

Could we not, as the president repeatedly asserted in his Wednesday news conference, have obtained the information by less morally poisonous means? Perhaps if we’d spoken softly and sincerely to Khalid Sheik Mohammed, we could equally have obtained "high-value information."

There are two problems with the "good cop" technique. KSM, the mastermind of 9/11 who knew more about more plots than anyone else, did not seem very inclined to respond to polite inquiries about future plans. The man who boasted of personally beheading Daniel Pearl with a butcher knife answered questions about plots with "soon you will know" — meaning, when you count the bodies in the morgue and find horribly disfigured burn victims in hospitals, you will know then what we are planning now.

The other problem is one of timing. The good cop routine can take weeks or months or years. We didn’t have that luxury in the aftermath of 9/11 when waterboarding, for example, was in use. We’d been caught totally blind. We knew there were more plots out there, and we knew almost nothing about them. We needed to find out fast. We found out a lot.

"We have people walking around in this country that are alive today because this process happened," asserts Blair’s predecessor, Mike McConnell. Of course, the morality of torture hinges on whether at the time the information was important enough, the danger great enough and our blindness about the enemy’s plans severe enough to justify an exception to the moral injunction against torture.

Judging by Nancy Pelosi and other members of Congress who were informed at the time, the answer seems to be yes. In December 2007, after a report in The Post that she had knowledge of these procedures and did not object, she admitted that she’d been "briefed on interrogation techniques the administration was considering using in the future."

Today Pelosi protests "we were not — I repeat — were not told that waterboarding or any other of these other enhanced interrogation methods were used." She imagines that this distinction between past and present, Clintonian in its parsing, is exonerating.

On the contrary. It is self-indicting. If you are told about torture that has already occurred, you might justify silence on the grounds that what’s done is done and you are simply being used in a post-facto exercise to cover the CIA’s rear end. The time to protest torture, if you really are as outraged as you now pretend to be, is when the CIA tells you what it is planning to do "in the future."

But Pelosi did nothing. No protest. No move to cut off funding. No letter to the president or the CIA chief or anyone else saying "Don’t do it."

On the contrary, notes Porter Goss, then chairman of the House intelligence committee: The members briefed on these techniques did not just refrain from objecting, "on a bipartisan basis, we asked if the CIA needed more support from Congress to carry out its mission against al-Qaeda."

More support, mind you. Which makes the current spectacle of self-righteous condemnation not just cowardly but hollow. It is one thing to have disagreed at the time and said so. It is utterly contemptible, however, to have been silent then and to rise now "on a bright, sunny, safe day in April 2009" (the words are Blair’s) to excoriate those who kept us safe these harrowing last eight years.

letters@charleskrauthammer.com

By deber B on 05/01/2009 11:53 am
Kelly In Texas

Thank you so much Deber…Charles Krauthhammer always seems to be the voice of reason in many situations.

This is the best written and most adroit comment pertaining to the "torture" issue to date. Thank you again.

By Kelly In Texas on 05/01/2009 12:26 pm
deber B
My pleasure.   I believe he is a brillant man and writer.
By deber B on 05/01/2009 12:37 pm
Kelly In Texas

Yes, that he is. I rarely find myself in opposition to what he has to say. I like his soft spoken manner.

By Kelly In Texas on 05/01/2009 1:05 pm
Jennifer Dooley
And Hello There Miss Diana. And It is amazing that so many people take anything from the Goverment as Truth. "Wag The Dog!"  They would never event incidents to stop, would they? Peace and LOve to you, my friend with Heart….
By Jennifer Dooley on 05/02/2009 1:20 pm
Roger from Ohio

That was proven to be incorrect Mary

The "plot that was discovered" was found out and made public before we captured Sheikh Mohammed. So if he gave up that information… he gave it up after it was already made public.

It just didnt happen…. but even if it did… it would still be wrong. 

By Roger from Ohio on 04/30/2009 6:47 pm
Slinky Binx
Looks like Ms. Rice is joining the "CYA Tour."   Everyone is officially starting to sweat.  It’s about time.
By Slinky Binx on 04/30/2009 9:38 am
Maggie W
Richard Nixon was a pathetic, wimpy little man with below par intelligence.  Condi Rice does not fit that profile.  But if her hand was helping stir the torture pot,  let her sink with the others who chose to dismiss domestic and international law.   She can put any legalese spin on it she wants, but the President is not exempt from the law of the land.     
By Maggie W on 04/30/2009 9:53 am
DeBúrca obj
I’m with you on that Maggie. Personally, I don’t really care to see prosecutions, but I do want investigations so that their behavior is historically on record, their reputations tainted and, most importantly, so that our country can go back to being a Nation of Laws and a nation of values that set us apart from terrorists.
By DeBúrca obj on 04/30/2009 11:48 am
C Hardy

Obama’s resonse to this question last night left me a little upset…"we dont know if not using waterboarding would have given us the same results"…well the only way we got those results was to use waterboarding…I am sure they didnt pull anyone in a room and just start waterboarding them, they were being held and questioned and werent getting any answers so they used waterboarding. 

Now I am not saying its right or wrong but for me, like many others and unlike many others, if the end result saves American lives, possibly mine or someone I love, then Im sorry, waterboard on.  And I can guarantee if anyone on here had family being held and the only way we could get info from the terrorist was waterboarding, then they would turn the other cheek and let it be done without screaming torture, torture, torture.  If someon took the Obama girls you can bet Obama would say "use any means necessary to get them back, and any means, means just that, ANY means!

By C Hardy on 04/30/2009 10:24 am