Conversation | 10/06/2009 3:30 pm
The wOw Conversation: Is 'The Good Wife' the 'Smart Wife'?
Are Silda, Elizabeth, and Jenny really victims? Sheila Nevins, Judith Martin and Julia Reed discuss. Read on, or click here to listen to the audio of this conversation.
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Editor’s Note: For the audio version of this conversation, and to listen in on bonus material, click here.
JULIA: Hi, welcome to wowOwow radio. I’m Julia Reed and we have today Sheila Nevins and Judith Martin. Our topic is basically men and women and adultery, especially famous men and women in adultery. I bring this up because, this past week, "The Good Wife," a drama starring Julianna Margulies, aired last week and it’s being hailed as the best drama of the fall TV season. Now whether you agree or not, and I do – I’m a TV junkie and I love this show – it is certainly timeless. The opening scene of the TV show is a tableau that we are now all very familiar with – the shell-shocked political wife in a suit and a string of pearls standing dutifully by her husband at the podium, while he announces some failure of judgment, and her life blows up in her face while we all watch on TV. Now, what makes this interesting, I think, is that it explores the biggest unanswered question that most of us have when that scene is played out on television – what is that woman standing there – like the good wife – what in the world is going on in her head, and why is she being used as a prop? Do you all have any thoughts on that? Sheila?
| You don't need a private detective anymore. You've got it in your wallet. |
SHEILA: Are we sure she’s a prop?
JULIA: Well that’s the thing –
SHEILA: Are we sure she didn’t know before? Are we sure she just discovered it that day? Are you sure she didn’t maybe allow it? Are you sure she doesn’t give a damn?
JUDITH: You think he said, "I’m going to make a little announcement, honey, and it’s going to be a surprise"?
SHEILA: No, I don’t think that at all. But I think that in a marriage, a long-range marriage, people know each other so well. I mean, you know when your husband had a bad tennis game, and you can tell by the way he walks in the door. You just know things. You can’t tell me that these women discover, whether it’s Ted Haggard’s wife or, you know, whomever – you can’t tell me that this person discovers it at that moment. They may pose discovery, but the fact is I don’t believe it. I don’t believe that that’s the good wife. I think that it’s the smart wife who’s going to play along. in most of these cases either write a book or do whatever, and has known this all along, and prefers to be with this person, possibly, than to not. Which one has left? If they leave they leave to write a book. I mean, they’re not victims. We think they’re victims because they’re wearing pearls.
JULIA: Well, it’s certainly true that few of them, so far – and especially in recent memory, within the last year there has been a huge cast – have left. I mean, Silda Spitzer stayed. Jenny Sanford is notable mainly because her husband announced that he was sort of like, "This is an affair of the heart."
SHEILA: Right.
JULIA: He wasn’t just, you know, paying a hooker. And she rebounded. She posed on the beach for Vogue.
SHEILA: So how deep was her suffering?
JULIA: Exactly. She seems to be doing pretty damn well. She’s got this big book deal where she’s going to tell us all how to cope in difficult times. But I still have the question. Judith, what do you think? I mean, Silda Spitzer, you know, obviously a few days before she was standing on that podium was told what was going on. But do you really think she thought old Eliot was having sex in his socks in the Mayflower Hotel with gorgeous hookers?
Read more about: Adultery, Bill Clinton, Carl Bernstein, Cougars, Eliot Spitzer, Elizabeth Edwards, Entertainment, FDR, Gov. Mark Sanford, Heartburn, Hilary Clinton, Infidelity, Jenny Sanford, Joan Kennedy, John Edwards, Julianna Margulies, Marriage, Nora Ephron, Politics, Relationships, Roosevelt, Silda Spitzer, Ted Haggard, Teddy Kennedy, Television, The Good Wife, Twitter, YouTube
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I just don’t think you can simply define it as victim or smart or any one simple thing. It may be all of them at once or none of them. Maybe one or more of these women welcomes being a martyr. Maybe one or more of these women are lying. Maybe… on and on…These are people in politics after all.
Like Sheila keeps referring to…. long term marriages all have their own set of rules and "roles" to be played. People make conscious and UNCONSCIOUS decisions about which roles they take on in a marriage. I can see myself in the shoes of one of these women and staying. I cannot see myself in the shoes of others of them and staying. Some would agree with my choices and why and others would not. To each their own people. Sex and Love is fraught with gray areas.
Sometimes they are merely being used as props and sometimes, please forgive me, they are merely standing by their man. Is it really our place to decide which they are doing or to pass judgement either way?
Some knew and are shocked when it hits the headlines while some didn’t know and are shocked when it hits the headlines.
Some just simply don’t care either way and are content in what we perceive to be discontent and could care less what we perceive.
Some of course do care and make sure it hits the headlines. And then play victim. And then, of course, take him to the proverbial cleaners.
Good wife or smart wife. The former, perhaps, stands by her man. The latter, perhaps, makes sure it hits the headlines. If she stays with him, it might make him think twice the next time. If she leaves him, it might make him think twice the next time when he remembers what it cost him the first time. Bottom line is, as the line from the song puts it, when love goes wrong, nothing goes right. Ever again. And in that sense, perhaps, the good wife who stays isn’t really the smart wife.
Actually Mary, they are our business. Elizabeth Edwards conspired with her husband and his aides because she wanted him to be president and she wanted to be first lady. She knew if word of John’s infidelity to his cancer stricken wife leaked out his chances were doomed, so she conspired to lie to the American people. We do not need such dishonesty in our leaders.
Spitzer appointed himself as a moral crusader in NY in who he chose to prosecute. Sometimes with a zealous personal agenda. We don’t need someone dictating morals whose own actions are immoral. Wd do not need "Do as I say, not as I do" people as our leaders.
Hillary did not need to stay married to Bill in order to fulfill her own political aspirations. The respect she would have garnered and support she would have had to divorce the president of the United States would have been stunning. I don’t think we need a woman who would put up with an serial adulterer as president.
If political leaders will lie and cheat on their spouses they will lie and cheat the American people too. You’d better believe these situtations are every bit our business.
Laurel, It sounds as if you are saying that it’s fine for people to have two sets of morals as well as character for public life versus character for private life. Sorry, I don’t buy that line of thinking. I believe you are who you are. If you lie, you’re a liar. Period. If you cheat. You are a cheater. Period. If you have a set of standards for A, and another set of standards for B you are a hypocrite. People who lie and cheat have lousy judgement.
Unfortunately, people who lie, cheat and have lousy judgement are abundant in our local, state and federal government. Maybe you don’t think character counts. I do.
Leigh What I am saying since you obviously don’t get it, is that a person’s private life is just that their private life. I don’t want to know who is cheating on who as long as it is not me that they are cheating on. Many people have cheated on their spouses and still did great things at their job. FDR is rumored to have cheated on Eleanor but he was still one of the greatest presidents we have had. He also lied to the entire country about having Polio and he was elected three times. He didn’t have lousy judgement either when it came to leading us through WWII and uniting everyone in the war effort. I even think that the late great Ronald Reagan even cheated on his first wife Jane Wyman with Nancy and he is now the reference that republicans use over and over again in their religious crusades.
I have lied on occasion in order to protect or defend those I love but I still have good judgement. Life is not Black and White. Life is usually a some shade of grey. Get off your highhorse and realize that everyone makes mistakes, big and small. What matters is the learning that happens from that mistake.
I don’t have two sets of standards. I just feel that someone else’s personal relationships and the problems they face in those relationships are none of my business. I don’t feel the need to judge anyone as that is not my job. Judgement belongs to whatever higher power they believe in.
Laurel, In this day and age there isn’t much private life for someone in the public eye, is there? I stand by my point that character is character. I don’t view cheating as making a mistake. Cheating is a conscious choice. I don’t believe that conspiring to decieve the American people (Elizabeth and John Edwards) can be called a mistake. I don’t believe that repeatedly choosing to pay call girls is a mistake. It is a laspe in judgement, a betrayal, and violation of vows.
See I do feel the need to evaluate our political leaders (judging). I want to know that they keep their word and can be trusted. And how they conduct themselves in their private lives is insight to their character.
So such things are not important to you. Fair enough. They are to me, and others.
Well Leigh I guess that is the problem with today’s society. We as a whole seem to have this need to know everything about everyone that is in the public eye. Put a webcam in your house Leigh so we can see just how perfect you are. We are all human and as humans we do stupid things, but that doesn’t mean that we have the right to know about it. How much do you like Ensign huh since he just got caught with his pants down? Elizabeth and John didn’t deceive anyone!!! They chose to keep their private life private. We have the right to know what our politicians are doing between the hrs of 9am-5pm or whatever their normal workday is, but after hours it is their time. Stop being a nosy Nancy and worry about your own life.
Laurel there’s no need be snide. You seem to think I said we have the right to know…please don’t twist my words. My point is character is character. You think differently. So be it. And yes, the Edwards did conspire because they knew that if Mr. All American Boy was exposed as a cheater his presidential chances were toast. You don’t seem to grasp the link. We clearly define character differently.