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Gay Marriage | 04/08/2009 8:10 am

Vermont's Gay Marriage Decision Reignites Right

By The Staff at wowOwow.com
© Getty Images

Gay rights advocates celebrated across the nation yesterday, when the Vermont legislature overrode the Governor’s veto and legalized same-sex marriage.

Those celebrations, however, may be curtailed by news that the lawmakers’ decision — and a Supreme Court ruling in Iowa — have only reinvigorated opponents of gay nuptials. The National Organization for Marriage, which believes marriage should remain between a man and a woman, vowed yesterday to take a tougher stand in other states.

The group’s executive director, Brian Brown, told the New York Times that he and his allies planned to start airing commercials across the country that stress the importance of maintaining traditional definitions of marriage.

Yesterday’s measure in Vermont coincided with an equally important decision in Washington DC. The district’s council voted to recognize gay marriages performed elsewhere. Currently four states — Connecticut, Massachusetts, Iowa and Vermont — allow same-sex couples to tie the knot. The council’s vote will require Congressional approval, which means the relatively localized debates will take on a whole new life across the nation.

Some say the Culture Wars are over, but we have a feeling they’re about to flair once again.

20 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

S G
Just as in the times of the Spanish inquisition the religious right types want to mandate their beliefs. Folks Love is Love, commitment is commitment. Equal rights , for the people, those words should mean everyone. What consenting adults feel for each other should be celebrated. You loud minority may be that loud. We the people the majority have had enough of your lunacy.
By S G on 04/08/2009 8:49 am
caj p
I personally don’t believe in "marriage" for gay folks I do think that should be between a man and a woman, I do believe in civil unions for them with all the same rights as married couples.  I guess you can’t help who you fall in love with but we were made a different sex for a reason and basically to have children.  I suppose each state will have to decide what they think is right for them and change the laws accordingly.
By caj p on 04/08/2009 9:29 am
Rudi G.

But isn’t it just semantics? Marriage is a civil contracts. What’s the diff? Plus, with civil unions, couples still have to pay extra legal fees to get the same rights that straight couples get for the cost of the license. One estimate put that figure at $600 per couple. How is that fair?

We tried separate but equal once in this country, and it didn’t work. Marriage is a civil institution and there is no logical reason to deny it to gay people. If we’re going to base our laws on religious teachings, then slavery must be legalized, divorce must be outlawed, ditto working on Sunday, eating shrimp, lobster and ham, women wearing pants, burning incense and reading horoscope. And btw, the Bible lists the punishment for some of these "crimes" to be death by stoning.

By Rudi G. on 04/08/2009 9:49 am
Kathleen Oliver
If I understand you correctly, marriage is a contract between individuals, and there is scarcely any logical or rational basis for singling out minority groups which are not sufficiently like ourselves and denying them the right to make contracts.  If, in fact, it is truly legitimate for the government or the mob to make such interventions, then the very notion of “liberty” is an utter sham and pretense; the notion that we are endowed with unalienable rights is nothing more than a popular fiction.
[ http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters.html ]
… And, of course, such interventions demonstrate that the “separation of church and state” is essentially a sham as well.
Even in America, “liberty” remains pretty much what it always has been: the exclusive domain of those who can marshal enough muscle to defend it at any given time.

  Most of us are capable of fiercely defending what we deem to be our own rights; I submit that it is the passion with which we defend the rights of people who are not like us which defines what kind of citizens we are.

I’ve noticed that the NT has severe strictures of its own.
[ http://www.wowowow.com/cl/159017 ]
Your post highlights the fact that people seem to be extremely picky [or should we say, “self-serving”?] about which of the biblical injunctions they want given the force of law in modern society and which they do not.  (It is a matter of great sorrow for me personally that the OT’s “thou shalt not kill” and the NT’s Golden Rule never seem to have gotten much traction … not even among church people.)

By Kathleen Oliver on 04/08/2009 12:22 pm
Rudi G.
The Founding Fathers could have saved time and trouble by not writing a Constitution but rather simply voting to adopt the Bible as the basis of United States law. Sounds far-fetched, but I’m only exaggerating a little when I say that that is essentially what many governments in the Middle East have done with the Koran, including our strong ally, Saudi Arabia. Sharia law hews very close to the Koran and, as we have seen with the stoning of gays and rape victims, its punishments can be quite dire.
By Rudi G. on 04/08/2009 1:05 pm
Rudi G.
The right can’t blame this one on activist judges. Should also point out that the California legislature passed gay marriage — twice — but our liberal Republican governor vetoed it both times.
By Rudi G. on 04/08/2009 9:43 am
caj p
I hear what you saying but as I said before we were made two different sexes for a reason wouldn’t you agree?  Now if two of the same sex fall in love I have no problem with that as you fall in love with who you fall in love with..man or woman.  I just don’t agree with those two same sex partners getting married that’s all.
By caj p on 04/08/2009 10:08 am
Rudi G.
But then to be fair, straight middle-aged couples should not be allowed to marry, nor should couples who are infertile. Right?
By Rudi G. on 04/08/2009 11:15 am
caj p
I really don’t get your point here!!
By caj p on 04/08/2009 12:36 pm
Rudi G.

Sorry, I assumed that what you meant was that marriage should be reserved for dual sex couples because they can procreate.

If not, then what difference does it make to you personally if two people you don’t know who happen to be of the same geneder want the happiness and security of marriage? I mean no disrespect but why do you care?

By Rudi G. on 04/08/2009 12:50 pm
caj p
Like I said this is my own opinion on this subject, it doesn’t matter to me personally if two same sex folks get married but I just don’t agree with it that’s all.  I sure as heck wouldn’t create a hullabaloo if ever it came to be a nation wide consensus I would go with the flow but that doesn’t stop me from feeling that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
By caj p on 04/08/2009 1:14 pm
deber B
caj p, you aren’t alone in your thinking.   You don’t need to apologize to anyone for the way you believe.    Gay couples make up a very small percentage of our population.   There are millions of people who feel the way you do.   There’s a smaller percentage who feel that same sex marriage falls into the "equal rights" category.
By deber B on 04/08/2009 1:48 pm
Rudi G.
Wow, thanks for that brilliant analysis.
By Rudi G. on 04/08/2009 3:30 pm
Kathleen Oliver
I am distressed about events in Vermont, for the following reason.  In California, it is possible to put issues related to equal treatment under the law up for a simple majority vote of the mob, where as in Vermont, it proved to be the case that the legislature could not protect equal treatment under the law without a two-thirds vote of both houses.  (The vote was 23-5 to override in the state Senate and 100-49 to override in the House.)

With this in mind, remember what the Supreme Court of Iowa said in its recent ruling.
[ http://www.wowowow.com/cl/259515 ]
In concluding that the marriage statute under review was constitutionally infirm, the court stated:
We have a constitutional duty to ensure equal protection of the law.  Faithfulness to that duty requires us to hold Iowa’s marriage statute, Iowa Code section 595.2, violates the Iowa Constitution.  To decide otherwise would be an abdication of our constitutional duty.  If gay and lesbian people must submit to different treatment without an exceedingly persuasive justification, they are deprived of the benefits of the principle of equal protection upon which the rule of law is founded. Iowa Code section 595.2 denies gay and lesbian people the equal protection of the law promised by the Iowa Constitution.

What an absurd and horrifying situation: it is easy to target minority groups and strip them of protections enjoyed by others and difficult to protect fundamental principles “upon which the rule of law is founded”.
As suggested over here [ http://www.wowowow.com/cl/260190 ], if we would only consider what fundamental principles we support before considering banning this and banning that, political discourse and decision-making in this country would be simplified enormously.
The big question now is whether the California Supreme court will agree that minority groups should indeed be easy prey or whether they will agree instead with Iowa’s Supreme Court.  Even though none of these decisions will directly affect my marriage, I don’t believe anyone’s rights are genuinely safe unless everyone is afforded equal treatment under the law.

Thankfully, we are inching towards the day when I can once again say with some conviction, “This is a free country.”

By Kathleen Oliver on 04/08/2009 10:51 am
Rudi G.

Now even "Pastor Rick" Warren has backtracked on gay marriage, telling Larry King this week, "I am not an anti-gay marriage activist."

But as conservative gay columnist Andrew Sullivan points out, Warren may have broken one of the Ten Commandments when he said: 

During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never—never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop 8 was going.

For one thing, Prop 8 was launched in early 2008 and was over in November, not "two years." For another, here’s what Warren said in October:

By the way, the election’s coming up in a couple weeks and I hope you’re praying about your vote. One of the propositions, of course, that I want to mention is Proposition 8 which is the proposition that had to be instituted because the court threw out the will of the people. And a court of four guys actually, voted to change a defintion of marriage that has been going for 5,000 years.

Now, let me just say this really clearly "We support Proposition 8." And if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate but on moral issues I come out very clear.

This is one thing, friends, that all politicians tend to agree on. Both Barack Obama and John McCain, I flat out asked both of them "What is your definition of marriage?" They both said the same thing. It is the traditional, historic, universal definition of marriage: one man and one woman, for life. And every culture for 5,000 years, and every religion for 5,000 years has said the definition of marriage is between one man and a woman.

Now, here’s an interesting thing. Just, there are about 2 percent of Americans who are homosexual or gay/lesbian people. We should not let 2 percent of the population to change the definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years.

This is not just a Christian issue. It’s a humanitarian and human issue that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love and procreation. So I urge you to support Proposition 8 and pass that word on.

So Pastor Rick lied

Couple of things: 5,000 years ago, the standard practice of marriage was polygamy. In fact, Abraham, the father of Judaism, Christianity and Islam was a polygamist, as were other many other major Old Testament figures.

Secondly, Alfred Kinsey, the pioneering sex researcher, said his studies show that around 10 percent, not 2 percent, of the population is gay. In any case, if gay people are only 2 percent, then why all the fuss? If gays are so insignificant why does it matter so much?

Finally, Obama opposed Prop 8, and said so publicly.

You’ll also find a video of  Warren making this statement here on YouTube.

By Rudi G. on 04/08/2009 12:00 pm