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Many times I have stated I am not a supporter. I have never hated her and have only used the voice of reason on the Hillary posts and not condemned her.
But numbers don’t lie. When you add up the remaining delegates left, she can’t win. The superdelegates have become discouraged and especially after the recent “attack Obama” email campaign which was organized on one of the Hillary sites. Many of the superdelegates who received these emails, which contained threats to vote for McCain, were appalled. Some of the emails also indicated Obama had used the “Race card” against Hillary. The superdelegates knew the use of race card issue was Hillary against Obama.
I have stated before, I feel she could bow out gracefully. She could use a humanitarian reason. She could vow to use the monies she otherwise would have spent, on feeding the hungry in America.
I certainly hate to see anyone not reach their goal, but when the goal is insurmountable, logic should win over stubborness.
The DNC must give Hillary the delegates she actually won. Florida and Michigan voters are Americans too. 2.5 million people are having their votes discounted by their own party! It’s despicable. Especially since it was the Republican state leaders of Florida who deliberately set the election early knowing the delegates would fall her way and would not be counted.
Stinks like a back room dirty trick. They’ll do anything they can to keep Bill Clinton out of the White House. It’s not just Hillary they hate. Although it has been said that some of this backlash is payback for Hillary working on the Nixon impeachment.
Hillary did not in the delegates in Florida and Michigan. The DNC Rules Committee took the states out of play for starting their primaries before Feb 5th. Neither candidate campaigned in the states. The Rules Committee is considering reinstating the states, even so given all of their votes, popular and otherwise, HRC would still be 100 votes behind. Rules are rules and prevent a free for all. It was up to the states to abide by them, they didn’t. Simple as that.
And, HRC signed a PLEDGEAGREEMENT w/no problem whatsoever — as did ALL fellow candidates. Not a peep — at the time.
Don’t sign what you don’t AGREE with.
Shame on the DNC for saying votes won’t count based on a schedule. It’s an insult to very name - Democratic Party.
Come to think of it, wasn’t a scheduling issue the exact same reason why Bush II was handed the presidency? Time had “run out” for the votes to be recounted according to the “rules” and the schedule. Boy oh boy, those Floridians. That Republican leadership there - led by good ole Governor Bush - they sure do a good job for their party.
It’s funny how schedules have managed to supersede the Constitution, isn’t it? Guess it’s because lawyers are running things now, not the people.
My alias, “Shame on the DNC for saying votes won’t count based on a schedule. It’s an insult to very name - Democratic Party.” There are rules…otherwise it would be a free for all. There was an agreement between all parties, and now it is under review by the DNC. HRC didn’t mind when she was manipulating things with the Texas vote. So why not stop acting as if she is some neophyte victim and let the process play out? I’m quite sure HRC’s very adept team of LAWYERS {and she IS one herself as is BILL as is OBAMA…so am not quite sure the intent of your lawyer comment} is handling it full throttle.
And what about the voters in Florida and Michigan who had every reason to believe that their vote would NOT count, and then refrained from casting a ballot? Where is THEIR preference recorded, and how is it ever reclaimed if someone is allowed to change the rules after the polls closed? The results from the two states at issue are invalid and there is no possibility they reflect the will of ALL voters. To include inaccurate results at face value would be undemocratic.
“Don’t sign what you don’t AGREE with,” is a rule of law. I would add: don’t whine and disrupt the process when the rules no longer suit you.
I am glad you reminded the group the legal ramifications of signing — countrywoman. I keep hoping if we post REALITY then HRC and her non-funding (of her continued Campaign) supporters will HONORTHERULES/rules of engagement and stop changing the metrics on a daily basis in a very un-American, un-Democratic way.
Hope springs eternal…
HRC and Bill Clinton keep changing the metrics to suit themselves and will continue to do so - leveraging race or “empty suit” language against the Democratic Nominee until (or even after) the Convention.
The Democratic Party will have to decide if they will permit this to continue and show some leadership. The “Super-Delegates” should be abolished after this Election cycle. The entire Democratic Party will require an overhaul as well, if Barack Obama survives the Clintons/McCain. Barack Obama represents CHANGE and moving into the future - and the changes needed for the Federal Government to actually begin working FOR the American people.
The way the Clintons have Campaigned during the Nomination process, fused with Republicans and leveraging the Nominee’s ethnicity against him — demonstrates the validity of Barack Obama’s premise and why young people whose future is at stake — have carried him thus far.
It’s their future and they have much at stake.
The DNC told MI&FL before they moved the elections what the consequences would be. MI&FL turned around, waved their middle fingers, and said “You don’t tell me what to do, I do what I want!” - and now they’re upset. Yeah, it sucks that I don’t have a say - but that’s not the DNC’s fault, it’s my state’s elected officials’ fault.
PS, the RNC also punished MI&FL, but I guess nobody cares about that.
Right, let’s all please remember that it was the Republicans who changed the date of the election, which therefore invalidated the votes in Florida and Michigan. HELLO!!!!
Why wouldn’t the DNC say, you know what? No more vote shenanigans you Republicans. You may have screwed with the results of 2 general elections (1st in Florida - then in Ohio) but we’re not letting you screw with our primaries too. No, we are going to count all the votes and assign the delegates.
But instead, Mr. Dean and his cronies just follow dumbly along. You’d think Dean would know better after what happened to his candidacy. (Ask Ted Kennedy about his involvement in bringing down that candidate and installing the big loser, Kerry.)
Oh dear… Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, Baker, DeLay et al have turned me into a conspiracy theorist.
Dean,Donna Brazile,Kerry,Kennedy and other party insiders have been trying to take the Clintons down. They see Obama as a great opportunity. Party is split and unquestionably MSM and party insiders have played a part in sabotage. Clinton’s campaign was flawed but she grew as a candidate. Donna B abd Dean have made a big thing about the RULZ re:Fla/Mi as it allows Obama more leverage in securing nomination. This group has covered up a very hazy,uncomfortable,and incomplete backstory and bio regarding Obama. Hatred and screed against Hillary has become respectable in what is an obvious seriously sexist society. The MSM has been outrageously and shamelessly sexist, and the debates, and snipes from Obamatons have been particularly foul. Anger and rage against Clinton have been fuel for the Obama bloggers, along with filthy language and slander. The pressure for Hillary to quit is psychological warfare. She should go to the last primary as her supporters must be considered as well as heer backers. VP will never happen. Obama wants to curtail Clinton Power. I believe she still has a future in politics.
To answer the question. Yes. PACKITIN. In the ULTIMATE test of courage, foresight, and intelligence. On the most important matter of our time she voted FOR an illegal, immoral, un-Constitutional invasion and mess that we are in, when it was evident then that it would be an ultimate tragedy. As Senator Chuck Hagel has said it is one of the 5 worst blunders in history.
Here are the heroes who didn’t vote for it, and what did they predicted then:
Daniel Akaka (D-HI)
Jeff Bingaman (D-NM)
Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Lincoln Chafee (R-RI)
Kent Conrad (D-ND)
Jon Corzine (D-NJ)
Mark Dayton (D-MN)
Richard Durbin (D-IL)
Russell Feingold (D-WI)
Robert Graham (D-FL)
Daniel Inouye (D-HI)
James Jeffords (I-VT)
Edward Kennedy (D-MA)
Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)
Patty Murray (D-WA)
Jack Reed (D-RI)
Paul Sarbanes (D-MD)
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
Paul Wellstone (D-MN)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)
HRC heard these floor statements in Congress and many more and placed political expediency above moral courage and doing the right thing and proved once more she has no moral center.
Daniel Akaka (D-HI) “Great uncertainty surrounds the President’s post-war strategy. Remember the day the war ends, Iraq becomes our responsibility, our problem. The United States lacks strategic planning for a post-conflict situation. Retired General George Joulwan recently said that the U.S. needs ‘to organize for the peace’ and design now a strategy with ‘clear goals, milestones, objectives.’ Our objectives in Iraq have not yet been made clear: is it our goal to occupy Baghdad and if so, for how long? A rush to battle without a strategy to win the peace is folly. Only after we exhaust all of our alternative means should we engage in the use of force, and before then, the President must ensure we have a strategy and plans in place for winning the war and building the peace.”
Kent Conrad (D-ND)
“Before we ask young men and women to put themselves in harm’s way, I must be convinced that we have exhausted every other possibility, pursued every other avenue. For me, and I believe for the people I represent, war must be the last resort. Saddam has not directly threatened his neighbors since the Gulf War. And a recent threat assessment from the Central Intelligence Agency concludes that Iraq is not likely to initiate a chemical or biological attack on the United States.
“Yet the President is contemplating a pre-emptive invasion of Iraq with the goal of ousting Saddam Hussein and installing a new regime. Never before in the history of this nation has the Congress voted to authorize a preemptive attack on a country that has not first attacked us or our allies. In my judgment, an invasion of Iraq at this time would make the United States less secure rather than more secure. It would make a dangerous world even more dangerous.”
Mark Dayton (D-MN) “There appears to be no imminent threat to the United States from Iraq. If there were, the Bush Administration could not have decided last summer to delay this unveiling until September because, in the words of White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, Jr., ‘from a marketing point of view, you don’t bring out new products in August. Because Iraq’s threat is not immediate, and because U.N. diplomatic efforts are just under way, I believe it is unwise and unnecessary for Congress to vote now on a future use of military force. So why is Congress rushing to judgment at this time? It is for political advantage in the upcoming election, rather than diplomatic or military necessity.”
Richard Durbin (D-IL) “Historically, we have said it is not enough to say you have a weapon that can hurt us. Think of 50 years of cold war when the Soviet Union had weapons poised and pointed at us. It is not enough that you just have weapons. We will watch to see if you make any effort toward hurting anyone in the United States, any of our citizens or our territory.
“It was a bright-line difference in our foreign policy which we drew and an important difference in our foreign policy. It distinguished us from aggressor nations. It said that we are a defensive nation. We do not strike out at you simply because you have a weapon if you are not menacing or threatening to us. Has September 11, 2001, changed that so dramatically?”
Russell Feingold (D-WI)
“Both in terms of the justifications for an invasion and in terms of the mission and the plan for the invasion, Mr. President, the Administration’s arguments just don’t add up. They don’t add up to a coherent basis for a new major war in the middle of our current challenging fight against the terrorism of al Qaeda and related organizations. Therefore, I cannot support the resolution for the use of force before us. “I am increasingly troubled by the seemingly shifting justifications for an invasion at this time. My colleagues, I’m not suggesting there has to be only one justification for such a dramatic action. But when the Administration moves back and forth from one argument to another, I think it undercuts the credibility of the case and the belief in its urgency. I believe that this practice of shifting justifications has much to do with the troubling phenomenon of many Americans questioning the Administration’s motives in insisting on action at this particular time.”
James Jeffords (I-VT) “I am very disturbed by President Bush’s determination that the threat from Iraq is so severe and so immediate that we must rush to a military solution. I do not see it that way. I have been briefed several times by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, CIA Director Tenet and other top Administration officials. I have discussed this issue with the President. I have heard nothing that convinces me that an immediate preemptive military strike is necessary or that it would further our interests in the long term. We must ensure that any action we take against Iraq does not come at the expense of the health and strength of our nation, or the stability of the international order upon which our economic security depends. Just think of what progress we could make on non-proliferation if we were to put one fraction of the cost of a war against Saddam Hussein into efforts to prevent the emergence of the next nuclear, chemical or biological threat. Strong efforts at strengthening international non-proliferation regimes would truly enhance our nation’s future security.”
Edward Kennedy (D-MA)
“It is wrong for Congress to declare war against Iraq now before we have exhausted the alternatives. And it is wrong to divert our attention now from the greater and more immediate threat of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda terrorism. We cannot go it alone on Iraq and expect our allies to support us. We cannot go it alone and expect the world to stand with us in the urgent and ongoing war against terrorism and Al Qaeda.”
Patrick Leahy (D-VT) “This resolution, like others before it, does not declare anything. It tells the President: Why don’t you decide; we are not going to. This resolution, when you get through the pages of whereas clauses, is nothing more than a blank check. The President can decide when to use military force, how to use it, and for how long. This Vermonter does not sign blank checks.
“We have heard a lot of bellicose rhetoric, but what are the facts? I am not asking for 100 percent proof, but the administration is asking Congress to make a decision to go to war based on conflicting statements, angry assertions, and assumption based on speculation. This is not the way a great nation goes to war. The key words in the resolution we are considering today are remarkably similar to the infamous [Gulf of Tonkin] resolution of 38 years ago which so many Senators and so many millions of Americans came to regret. Let us not make that mistake again. Let us not pass a Tonkin Gulf resolution. Let us not set the history of our great country this way. Let us not make the mistake we made once before.”
Carl Levin (D-MI) “The vote we take today may have significant consequences for our children and our grandchildren. I believe our security is enhanced when we seek to enhance the authority and credibility of the United Nations and when, if military force is required, it is done with support of the world community.”
Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) “America cannot face this situation alone. The support and cooperation of allies would enable us to share the risks and costs. We need international legitimacy, international support, and international manpower. I also worry that unilateral action could undermine the war on terrorism. Some special forces have already been withdrawn in the efforts to hunt al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The focus of our top military and civilian leaders could shift away from Bin Laden and al Qaeda.”
Jack Reed (D-RI) “Acting alone will increase the risk to our forces and to our allies in the region. Acting alone will increase the burden that we must bear to restore stability in the region. Acting alone will invite the criticism and animosity of many throughout the world who will mistakenly dismiss our efforts as entirely self-serving. Acting alone could seriously undermine the structure of collective security that the United States has labored for decades to make effective. Acting alone today against the palpable evil of Saddam may set us on a course, charted by the newly announced doctrine of preemption, that will carry us beyond the limits of our power and our wisdom.”
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) “If we do this right, Mr. President, we will truly make the world safer for our families. If we choose the wrong approach, I am deeply concerned that we will start down a road that could ultimately create a more unstable and dangerous world for our children and our grandchildren. There is no doubt that we can defeat Saddam Hussein in battle. The test of our strength is not in our ability to marshal our military forces, but our willingness to adhere to that which has made us great. We are a strong and powerful nation, made that way by our willingness to go the extra mile in the name of liberty and peace. The time is now for us to work together in the name of the American people and get it right.”
Ron Wyden (D-OR) “I am not convinced that Saddam Hussein currently poses a clear and present threat to the domestic security of our nation. While my service on the Senate Intelligence Committee has left me convinced of Iraq’s support of terrorism, suspicious of its ties to al Qaeda, I have seen no evidence, acts, or involvement in the planning or execution of the vicious attacks of 9/11.”
Thank you, Suzanne. This vote ALONE should disqualify HRC from another term as Senator from New York — and ANY consideration by Barack Obama as his VP.
Renata-Aggressive, unilateral, baseless war directed on a civilian population is a war crime…..everything that followed and continues to follow is a war crime. HRC voted for that. She and her hypocritical supporters have the blood of over one million innocent people and a destroyed county on their hands. It’s worst than disgusting, immoral and inhumane. It makes me sick, and has made me sick ever since. She had her BIG moment to truly stand for something, truly do something for humanity, truly show some genuine moral courage and she did not. All she had to do was say and vote no, just like the real heroes above, and she did not. Everything after that is mute.
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