Poll | 10/03/2008 12:00 am

Who won Thursday night's debate?

Read more about: Debate, Election 2008, Joe Biden, Politics, Sarah Palin

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Dana Jae—You misunderstoold—I was not equating “educated” with “elitist”. If you noticed I said “educated” elites—I was being facetious—implying that though elites may think they are more intelligent by virtue or their education, they are not. I have met many educated “joe six-packs”, a term I was using to refer to average americans—meaning they are educated and not elitist—ie, they don’t think they are better than anyone else. The so-called ‘elites’ in this country—media, hollywood, wahington— are not necessarily more intelligent or more educated than average, down to earth people—they just think they are. I think we could benefit by putting non-elites in public office, people who are not so full of themselves and don’t think they know what is best for everyone. You may want someone “more educated” than the average joe in power—but your definition of educated may be different than mine. Those who get degrees from the elite schools in this country may have an “education” but they do not necessarily have integrity, honor and common sense—traits I believe are necessary in any real leader. BTW I am Chinese, and yes as a people we do put education first—but unfortunately empathy, common sense and personal responsibility are not as highly valued in communist countries as they are in democracies. Education in and of itself is not a panacea. What kind of “class of the citizenry” do you expect if people don’t even value themselves or others. I received my graduate and undergraduate education in Ivy league schools and have worked and taught in them and can’t say I am impressed with the “educated” classes in this country. Having those in power who have more in common with the majority of those they represent may be a more practical approach—obviously the alternative has not succeeded well.

By eleanor roche on 10/04/2008 11:42 am

Dana Jae, The mistake is to not acknowledge that there are many ways to live. This country is comprised of a very diverse people. Hillary got this. Obama does not. He sniffs at the “bitter” masses who “cling to their guns and religion.” We need laborers, we need farmers, we need bus drivers and mail carriers and craftsmen to keep the economy functioning. The highly-educated class is only one segment of the population. And frankly, I know a lot of PhDs who are completely useless for anything more than regurgitating a bunch of inane theories developed by others. Last night, I watched a PBS show on Thailand - the land of smiles - and watching how these people lived… it was just so heartening to me how rich and full and happy their “simple” lives seemed to be. Personally I think we need more “simple” people in leadership positions because they are in touch with the basics of life and the dire situation at the domestic level. Those inside the beltway have lost touch.

By Buh- Bye on 10/04/2008 12:45 pm

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“…………..Hillary got this. Obama does not. He sniffs at the “bitter” masses who “cling to their guns and religion.” My Alias, don’t you think you all are over playing this statement. Seriously. I have examples, Tell me if its not true. For me in times of pain, worry and heartache I turn to my religion and to My God. My little daugther clings to her blanket ( that is what she feels secured with), my mother clings….and I mean clings to her rosary and spends alot of time at the Grotto. I know people worry every now and then, and we always turn to what we are comfortable with, I bet you do too. So please, give it a break and don’t turn this statement into something ugly. I can tell you are a smart and intelligent woman. If you want fairness be fair.

By Edwina Cooper on 10/04/2008 8:02 pm

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By Edwina Cooper on 10/04/2008 8:02 pm

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Edwina, Obama does sniff at working class whites who are less educated and more simple (or different) in their thinking. He has empathy for working class blacks who are uneducated due to oppression. There was a big push during the primary by the Obama campaign to paint Hillary supporters as highly uneducated. It was a tact used to garner support of college students and shame Hillary supporters into changing allegiance. Those with half a brain could see through that one. It went beyond statistics. The upshot was, if you are for her, you are stupid. The tact is still being used by Obamacans today. Even on this site. That’s how Obama became known as an elitist in the first place. The shoe fits.

By Buh- Bye on 10/04/2008 11:14 pm

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The one I really love is people, even friends, who say to me: “You used to be smart.” I feel like saying, “Yeah, then the drooling got the best of me.” You really need to laff it off.

By Star Lawrence on 10/05/2008 11:07 am

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.”……………Obama does sniff at working class whites who are less educated and more simple (or different) in their thinking. He has empathy for working class blacks who are uneducated due to oppression. ……The upshot was, if you are for her, you are stupid….” My Alias, OMG you surprise me everytime I read from you. So where or how did you come up with all the above “theories”. This is ridiculous ” sniffs at White Working Class” and shows empathy towards “Black Working Class”. When and how did he get to do that without the media attacking him. Especially Fox News. I supported Hillary too, but coming up with this “he for the black working class against the white working class” is stretching it a little. Race has never been an issue in his campaign, and that I’m sure. Before you forget Obama’s mother is white. Oh! and whoever said a person calling him or herself “Joe-Six Pack” / hockey mom is automatically a champion of the white working class? Shouldn’t it be what you policies offer and what he/she stands for like : **Women’s Right to Choose **Equality for Women **The Environment **Job Creation and ** Keeping America Safe. The shoe dose not fit at all, it feels like the 2 ugly sisters and the glass sandal, from the Cinderella Story. Obama: Winning over HRC supporters Posted: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 9:30 AM by Mark Murray Filed Under: 2008, Clinton, Obama “A new Gallup poll out yesterday says that the percentage of Clinton loyalists planning to vote for Obama in November jumped from 70 percent before last week’s convention to 81 percent after, and the percentage saying they are certain to back Obama increased from 47 percent to 65 percent. … I guess all 81% of us didn’t see what your saw, ‘cos I guess it was not there. With his massive college support I attribute it to 2 things 1. his youthfulness and his “Change” message. 2. His use of the internet as the base for his campaign and his grassroot programs.

By Edwina Cooper on 10/06/2008 12:05 am

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Thank You Dana….Thank You. this is what should be our yardstick not “joe-six pack”.

By Edwina Cooper on 10/04/2008 7:25 pm

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Our Fore fathers were also very conservative and religious………and hey—-average Joes are the back bone of this country-they are the 9-5 workers who keep this country running..They are the ones who fight for our country to keep us free(I aint no senators son) What is education??? Sure the more you can have the better-if you want it—not all can be white collar workers. They are the true AMERICANS—you sound like a real pain in the a__ do us a favor and move to China—see how long their government allows you to speak your mind………….

By Lynn Marie on 10/05/2008 4:21 pm

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Lynn, did I just read that you wrote that I sound like a real pain in the a……? Were you referring to me? Well, I educate people in a community college where they only pay $20 per unit to get an education, Lynn Marie. I train them to do a job that is considered vocational work. I’ve been an audio engineer for 22 years and teach people how to find work that they love rather than sit at a white collar boring day job. But I value education that is fair and available to everyone and it doesn’t have to come from a college. It comes from reading lots of books, papers, magazines, online editorials, etc. (something a woman who aspires to be the next V.P. can’t even name one) It comes from having an open mind and speaking with people who may be different from you…open to new ideas and thoughts. That’s what happens in a lot of colleges, Lynn Marie. Though it’s clear that you haven’t been to one. It comes from not sitting on the couch and acting like a joe six-pack on the sidelines of life watching the world walk by through your television set and not forming a thought of your own but just regurgitating what the talking heads say on Fox News. Do YOU a favor and move to China? By your tone you won’t be finding me working any favors for you, my dear. I wouldn’t ask you to leave the country you call home. But I might ask you to step back under a rock you call your mind and leave spaces like this for people with open minds who enjoy a healthy debate without being “joe six-pack mindedly” mean.

By Dana Jae on 10/05/2008 8:41 pm

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sorry to ruin your image of me—-I did attend Community College for 2 years—I put myself through while I worked full time and took care of my 2 year old son—whose father ”disappeared ”and never ever paid one dime of support. I then went on to a four year college. I am an RN with a Masters Degree—I take care of ALL kinds of people—-in my mind there cannot be differences with people or I would not survive in my job. I am an independent woman in all ways —I will NEVER need to ask anyone like you for a favor—-my answer last time was just out of frustration really—too much name calling for me here-you put people in different boxes and stereotype them all…….you were all the ones with the joe six pack coments—-I find that offensive. YOU are the closed minded one here. Mc Cain will win—then we will see who is laughing and is a know it all—he is the ONLY one with experience—-Joe Biden Loved him prior to running for VP——-even your president Clinton wants him in it is so obvious………

By Lynn Marie on 10/05/2008 10:10 pm

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Name calling? Lynn, what will you do when McCain doesn’t win? That’s what I would like to know. The American people have become very aware of him and what he lacks in character. He used to be a man of substance. “used to be” is the operative here. He has proven himself to be someone who cares not about the American people. Country first is a joke for his campaign and you know it. You are simply too closed-minded to see that. When you awaken on Nov. 5 and you see that we have real change in the White House, I wonder what tune you’ll be singing then. Glad you have a Master’s Lynn. Why don’t you use it and stop putting down people with education or someone like me who espouses the ideas of an educated person governing this great land. You’re the one who threw crap at me, remember? I’ve been posting comments about the campaign and what I see as a huge and scary black hole in the mind of someone running for Vice President of this country. For some reason, you decide to stomp in to this very cordial debating between women like a bull in a china shop and tell people that they are asses and to move to china. A woman with an education saying this, no less. You can write what you wish in answer to this. I won’t be reading any more of your posts so don’t waste your time on the keyboard with me.

By Dana Jae on 10/06/2008 9:20 am

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hey just giving as good as I get—-and black holes?? please——- just your opinion———-can’t you handle anyone but your owns??? You are the one with the closed mind my dear—— you have no idea what I do with my education or within my own community—I do know it is people like yourself who think LESS of the “”average JOE”” who are constantly scaring people away from speaking their minds by making them feel SMALL or LESS THAN YOU and your BIG education—-sorry that makes you an ass to me…….

By Lynn Marie on 10/06/2008 6:15 pm

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Eleanor - I’m with you on Joe Biden - I like him, but wouldn’t vote for him - and I said earlier on this thread that he should stay exactly right where he is. I think he’d be far more effective with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee than as VP. I, too, picked up on the “Bosniack” stumble - but as far as I’m concerned, it was no big deal, so why make an issue of it. I also thought that Sarah’s, “Say it isn’t so, Joe,” and her “Doggone it,” were funny and refreshing - and I think Joe got kind of a kick out of it, too. When was the last time we ever heard anyone say something like that in a debate? It brought things back down from sort of a pompous, rarified atmosphere - and gave voice to what so many of us were thinking. I’ve also seen Sarah in a subsequent interview with one of the guys from FOX. (Name escapes me.) No script - no debate - no massive build-up of anticipation - and she was very real and very sincere. The more I see her, the more I like her.

By Linda P on 10/04/2008 8:34 pm

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Eleanor……….you just may be right! The majority of the politicians in Washington today really don’t have the peoples best interests in mind. They become elitist and drunk on power. I think Sarah Palin represents middle America and so she connects with people. For some people she’s charming, warm and articulate. She’s also very believeable, if you listen to her with an open mind. When Bill Clinton first came on the scene there were people who hated the way he talked. He was just as “folksy” as she is today. He could’nt utter a sentence without saying “golly”. His speech pattern was compared to Gomer Pyle for goodness sake!! Well, that all changed when he got to Washington! So, you Obama supporters……..take heart, her speech pattern will most likely change when she gets to Washington too!! People should be discussing the issues and not her dropped G’s. Come Tuesday, this can start all over again.

By Judi McCaslin on 10/04/2008 12:22 am