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Joan Ganz Cooney | 04/28/2008 12:26 pm

No Atheists Allowed in the Foxhole?

Joan Ganz Cooney

No recent news story has angered me as much as the one recently in The New York Times under the headline "Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats," about a soldier in Iraq who assembled a group of non-believers. Remember that believers are encouraged to assemble and pray as much as possible, but this group was told charges would be filed against them and they’d be prevented from re-enlistment. The young man who assembled the group has been sent back to the States because of threats against his life.

It is well known that proselytizing by evangelicals in the armed services is constant and often borders on harassment. It is also well known that officers, when they meet on military business, always start with a prayer. Am I crazy or does all of this border on a violation of the Establishment Clause (First Amendment) of the Constitution? This comes so close to imposed religion by a government body that it is hard to see the difference. The Founding Fathers explicitly wanted this country to be free from the tyranny of religion. What could be farther from what they had in mind than the armed forces, either overtly or subtly, pressuring enlistees and officers to manifest a religious belief (and let’s face it, whether stated or not, Christian belief) and forbidding any to dare say that they aren’t believers?

108 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Lady Bug
I understand the problems with religion, but you are generalizing more than I did! I’m quite peaceful actually and have no qualms with who you (or anyone) believes in or don’t. Thanks for letting me post and then slamming me for doing so.
By Lady Bug on 04/29/2008 11:20 am
Michael Salling
precious lady bug — next you’ll be crying that all Christians are victims of a vast liberal / satanist conspiracy to take away their wafers and make them wear the scarlet letter “A” (for atheist) on thier chests. Your twisting and contorting of Joan’s thesis is too blatant too be merely negligence. No one is being sent home for saying prayers as they cower in their foxholes or bases or whatever. Frankly, I didn’t know it was that easy to be sent home. I thought you had out yourself or be caught giving a ****job to the corporal.
By Michael Salling on 04/29/2008 7:04 am
Lady Bug
I neither twisted nor contorted anyone’s thesis. I was stating my thoughts. Isn’t that what the forum allows?
By Lady Bug on 04/29/2008 12:33 pm
Deni G
Yes Lady Bug, it does. I am looking forward to hearing many more of your thoughts. And I am sure I am not alone. Type away!!!
By Deni G on 04/29/2008 4:37 pm
K O
Hi Lady Bug, It’s what the forum allows - and why it exists. Thanks for your comments.
By K O on 04/29/2008 4:38 pm
Deni G
Kitty! We typed that at the same time! Don’t we get a wish or something?
By Deni G on 04/29/2008 4:43 pm
Lana Light
100% agree with Arlene C.
By Lana Light on 04/28/2008 3:36 pm
phyllis Doyle Pepe
I, for one, am sick to death of this back and forthing of religious “stuff.” After years of probing into religion, trying to understand why in 2008 we are still grappling with all this ancient belief I emerge as a weary atheist. I am reminded here of something the historian Yehuda Bauer said :There is no way that there can be an all-powerful AND just God. He can either be all-powerful OR just. Because if he’s all-powerful, he’s Satan. If he’s just, he’s a nebbish.” And no atheists in foxholes, Frank? There have been plenty. To me, it all boils down to the desperate need to have SOMEBODY in control–––somebody, like as children we once wanted our parents to be. We never lose that , I suppose, and some of us transfer that need––that want–onto a deity. It’s so sad that we have to grapple in this day and age with all this religious strife. Me thinks we humans are amazing creatures!!!!!
By phyllis Doyle Pepe on 04/28/2008 4:39 pm
Mugsy Peabody
What I was saying about “who is the Army,” if the “Army” doesn’t approve. As Pogo said, “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”
By Mugsy Peabody on 04/28/2008 6:13 pm
Frannie Em
Mugsy, the army doesn’t care. It isn’t what it does. There are individuals that make a point, but it essentially doesn’t care. The chaplains are there to serve the men because the majority of them have some sort of belief in a power greater than themselves. The majority of the chaplains are non-denominational and a lot of guys go to them. My son practices no faith and I don’t even know if he believes in God, but when I see other men he has served with they always say they know they can count on him in “the middle of it”. They never talk about if they believe in God, or if Eric does. I posted a long post above and it deals with how superstitious the guys get, especially when it is close to time to go home. There are National Guard units that the guys all grow up together in the same town etc., they could group together, but normally, there is such a diverse mix of men that there it weeds out those types of problems. If this happened as they say it did - then it was probably a Nat Guard Unit.
By Frannie Em on 04/28/2008 10:51 pm
Mugsy Peabody
I was responding to the question of whether or not “the Army condones” what is happening with these kids, saying the Army is the people in the Army, so my point was, there is no “Army” to say yeah or nay, just a bunch of kids, a whole lot of weapons, and a structure they more or less adhere to. So yeah, your kids have some sense. But the kids at Abu Ghraib certainly didn’t. So that’s all I’m saying….
By Mugsy Peabody on 04/28/2008 10:55 pm
Frank Peterson
Close to going home—oh my, getting short is what we called it and when you were so close to leaving, superstition does take over. That’s when the worry starts. I soooo short you can’t put me back in the boonies, LT; That time for me is very vivid, not that the rest wasn’t intense but those last few weeks, days are hell.
By Frank Peterson on 04/28/2008 11:59 pm
Michael Salling
Phyllis old girl — hold your head high. Another word for atheism is … enlightenment.
By Michael Salling on 04/29/2008 7:17 am
Retired Coastie
During my 21+ years in the U.S. Coast Guard, I don’t remember being present at one official function that didn’t begin with a benediction (a wonderfully military-ese word for “prayer”). And it never failed to bother me. I refer to myself these days as either an agnostic or a “recovering Catholic.” Being raised in a strict Catholic household is probably what drove me to this state, but that’s another discussion, isn’t it? Anyway, you might think that my background would place me in the category of those who aren’t bothered by state meetings and ceremonies beginning with prayers. But the opposite is true, and here’s why: I don’t believe any religion has the right to impose itself on everyone else, especially when that religion (whichever one it may be) is that of those in power. Yet if you are or have been in the military, you see/saw it all the time: ceremonies and other events practically all beginning with benedictions/prayers with a heavily Christian flavor. Never mind that there are more than likely some non-Christians in the group; never mind that some may not ascribe to any belief at all. The commanding officer (or someone near her) felt the need for a prayer, based on her belief system. And sadly, the chaplain concurred. I’m not saying there aren’t thinking COs and chaplains who strive daily for equality for the troops. Some even trade kick-off prayers for “moments of silence” in which each person can offer up — or decline to offer up — his or her own thoughts or prayers, without offending anyone else in the room. (A great idea, I think!) But the vast majority of those in the drivers’ seats aren’t, in my experience, willing to give up that much power. So why is it surprising when a group of everyday Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines/Coasties turns on their comrades-in-arms for not conforming to the religious majority rule? After all, they’ve been brainwashed: They’ve been repeatedly exposed to superiors who use their positions of power to force personal religious customs upon those they are supposed to lead … those they’re supposed to lead without bias of any kind, just for the record. Sadly, I seriously doubt that this is a one-of-a-kind incident. This one just happened to find its way to the consciousness (and conscience) of the public.
By Retired Coastie on 04/28/2008 4:55 pm
Frannie Em
Retired Coastie - my brother in law as in the Coast Guard. My son is in the army - read some of my above comments. He is agnostic by his own admission. He has never been bugged by anyone about it. He knows the regs as well as any of them. He has never complained about it He says most of the guys he serves with are Christian, but they don’t care. It’s bad enough that these kids have to deal with the restrictions army life puts on them, then have to be so disrespected by people who call them brain washed, as if they don’t have the intelligence to understand what is happening around them. Who cares if people pray. To me it is just respecting each other. If that kid has a case, believe me it will be dealt with.
By Frannie Em on 04/28/2008 11:03 pm