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Entertainment | 02/13/2009 3:55 pm

Comments of the Week 2/7 - 2/13

By The Staff at wowOwow.com

Editor’s Note: The following comments have been edited for length.

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Comment to a Conversation on February 11
By margameri margameri on 02/11/2009 10:38 pm

In today’s column Tom Friedman quotes Shekhar Gupta, editor of The Indian Express saying (tongue in cheek, he says) "All you need to do is grant visas to 2 million Indians, Chinese, and Koreans. We will buy up all the subprime homes. We will work 18 hours a day to pay for them. We will immediately improve your savings rate - no Indian bank today has more than 2% non-performing loans because not paying your mortgage is considered shameful here. And we will start new companies to create our own jobs and jobs for more Americans."

My husband, an online Nepalese journalist, has been saying this for months. Just allow the undocumented Nepalese and others who are already here, working 7 days a week, living in the shadows and saving their money, to receive green cards and one day achieve the citizenship they dream of. They have been saving, and long to own homes. They are entrepreneurial, they work hard, husbands, wives, aunts, uncles, cousins together. They make sure their children are educated and disciplined. They exemplify "family values." I know - my social network is largely in the Nepali community, where I am called "Didi" (sister), and showered with warmth and affection.

Immigration has been a large part of the core of this nation, yet in this bailout congress is stupidly disallowing the employment of high-skilled H1Bvisa holders by the bailed-out. To quote Friedman again:" We need to attack this financial crisis with green cards, not just greenbacks, and with start-ups not just bailouts."

What we ARE doing is swooping up immigrants in raids, separating families, locking people up in detention centers then deporting them after months or years of imprisonment. Who do you think pays for all this? Well over $100/day per detainee, flights to all parts of the world accompanied by 2 officers per deportee (except for those who die while in custody from lack of proper treatment or suicide) and overnight hotels for the accompanying officers all paid for by our tax money.

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Comment to a Post on February 13
By Mommy Dearest on 02/12/2009 1:26 pm

"The good news is that today inflation is practically nonexistent. Oil prices have collapsed, and other commodities have retrenched as well. That could change, especially as the government ramps up spending and the money supply continues to expand. However, since utilization rates in the economy are low and there are millions looking for jobs, prices and wage rates will likely stay under pressure, containing inflation."

Liz, my dear, I cannot envision inflation staying under wraps as the Treasury prints money for an $800-ish billion stimulus package coupled with the multi-trillion dollar bank bailout.

Back when Mommy learned economics (and dinosaurs roamed the earth), governments that spent their way out of an economic downturn always found themselves in an inflationary environment.

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Comment to a Book Post on February 10
By Patrice Baldwin on 02/10/2009 10:13 pm

I’ve always steered clear of ‘just sex’ because it’s generally boring and I’ve had better. It’s necessary to have some kind of relationship, whether it’s an old friend or someone you’ve known for a while. During the 60s in Hollywood when everyone was doing it with everyone else, I had enough of that at Hollywood parties. I can remember the last one I went to in Malibu. I came into the party, said hello to the host, an old friend, looked around and went home.
I actually had a lovely young mentor (or I think it was really the other way ‘round) who visited me recently. I had high hopes for a weekend of fun, but it wasn’t to be. First he was wildly allergic to my dog; sneezed and snizzeled the whole time. Then it was decidedly difficult to ‘splain to my Great Dane that her spot on the bed wasn’t to be hers. In fact she didn’t take it well, and made a big fuss all night. The second night I thought, "Well, if she can’t be convinced, she should perhaps join ‘em." Turns out she was way too interested in other things going on than sleeping on her corner of the bed. It ended up in a well packed threesome with a lot of sneezing. I think I’ll have to think it over again.

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Comment to a Post on February 12
By elaine s on 02/12/2009 2:38 pm

So this is equality?

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Comment to The Question of the Day on February 13
By Count Snarkula on 02/13/2009 4:11 pm

5 more minutes with my Mother.

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Comment to a Post on February 6 (Sorry we missed this comment last week but it’s still worth recognizing)
By Susan B on 02/06/2009 3:46 pm

Diana, I believe the problem here — in this forum — is that it is a blog: anonymous and safe. And I don’t believe WoW, or any other blog, is truly representative of the voices and ideas of the country at large, it is representative of those of us who are of strong opinions and compelled to express ourselves. The so-called blogosphere a small sample, really, and we delude ourselves if we think otherwise or believe we can move mountains with our single opinions. At our best, we’re sharing experiences and tossing ideas back and forth with humor and an open mind. At our worst, we’re people who are in need of a fight or a place to vent our frustrations.

In "real life," I experience far more people interacting civilly, thoughtfully and with a generosity of spirit. We discuss most of the same topics, but we do so with restraint and care. We look each other in the eye, smile, tear-up, and touch.

On a blog, our humanity is reduced to words. There are plenty of very smart women here on WoW, but I also sense a high degree of personal disenfranchisement and social disconnection. So it’s good to be able to reach out to others like we do here — but I think we often forget how fortunate we are to be able to do so and take each other for granted.

(OK, Sully, help me land this plane.) What I’m trying to offer, is the idea that the people of this country are really not so different in the big picture. But on a blog or the mass media or in congress, commonality is not going to distinguish anyone, and so will never be adequately celebrated and leveraged for good. Diana, take hope in what you experience as you bump into each other on the sidewalk, stand next to each other in a line, or find in a smile from a stranger. We are together in so many ways, but politics is and always has been the great divider and on a blog — where we are literally on the same page — it’s a 24/7 experience that’s stoking the problem rather than bringing consensus. Our forbears would be hamstrung by this, I’m sure.

I wish we could put away the negativity, but it’ll never happen on Wow. Still, I’d like to think we could all try harder.

Read more about: Comments of the Week

359 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

N P
Hi Marina, It is scary to think that the people who are not politically enlightened will read the rant posts and, because they don’t know any better, and don’t think for themselves, a certain number of them will believe this nonsense. But I think it is important to pick your battles. Otherwise, you can spend your day on this website, in debates or arguments that will never bring the result you want. Again, I’m talking about corresponding to the Crazies. You can have intelligent discourse with some posters here on Wow that are of a different view. But I’m not talking about them. DeBurca said: “It is our responsibility to call people out on outrageous attempts and false comments to spread false conspiracy theories.” I agree with her statement. She is one smart cookie, politically astute and very bright, as are some others on Wow. But I can’t speak to how she decides on who she is going to post to. Whether she calls everyone out, or whether she pick her battles. I wonder how other websites handle the blog problems that are experiencing. I don’t now if Huffington Post or the NY Times or Politico screen the posts before releasing them to the site. It has been so long since I posted there, I can’t remember. Lately I only post here, although I read on other websites. Well, my business is in trouble. Time for me “To Go To The Mat” as they say. I’ll still check in on Wow. Probably more in the morning and then the evening. During the day as time permits. In any event, I’ll see you around. Have a pleasant day.
By N P on 02/16/2009 10:33 am
Lizzie R.
I just started reading the #1 thread with 600+ comments and had to quit reading after just a bit, as found it too upsetting with all the vitriolic comments that were nothing but mean, name calling to ones they disagreed with, and a lot of making fun and agreeing with each other in their nasty remarks. Why should this be allowed go on, as it’s counterproductive to what this site represents…intelligent women having a mature exchange of ideas. I cannot read those sorts of exchanges any longer and scrolling is no answer. I am not alone in feeling this way, but am sure it will continue unchecked.
By Lizzie R. on 02/16/2009 12:50 am
~ countrywoman ~
Dear Joni I just read all the way through this thread and hope you did too. Can you see that, except for a couple of trolls who are determined to degrade your site, most of the women here are imploring you to take some control of your content and standards? We enjoy and appreciate Wow. If you truly value our voices as you said, actions would speak louder than words. Hopefully Yours
By ~ countrywoman ~ on 02/16/2009 2:20 am
mary lou s
yes, countrywoman. i am interrupting my boycott of this site to write this. joni, i am subject to attack here for who i am. you need to make this site safe for its members by creating and enforcing adequate standards of civil discourse. as a guide, i suggest you watch rachel maddow and see what she will not do to anyone. or, in radio, there is diane rehm. i used to come to this site daily. now the toxic comments and pointlessly controversial headlines repel me. if this site responds to this crisis in a positive, effective way, i suspect all of the disappointed former members will return.
By mary lou s on 02/16/2009 2:03 pm
Mugsy Peabody
I’m not really interested participating at a high level with people who have no interest in doing anything but disrupt, so am concentrating more on my own blog, My thoughts are offered to all of you on my blog: www. mugsypeabody.blogspot.com.
By Mugsy Peabody on 02/16/2009 2:46 am
kermie b
After reading through all these comments, I went to the archives, just out of curiosity, to see the difference from when this site started. It is like night and day. No one said, my opinion is the “correct opinion”—what does that even mean? Some have gone back and posted on year-old threads, which tells me they are also interested in how this site has degraded. The fact that the thread they post on is from last year doesn’t seem to matter. The civility matters. I have been staying away from wOw for periods of time because the petty bickering is exhausting and upsetting. I find it hard to believe this is the same website I used to be excited to read everyday; it has changed so much.
By kermie b on 02/16/2009 2:59 am
leigh ann
Sometimes you just have to let things go and not take things personally. It is so emotionally exhausting to read all the bickering and belittling. What I have done is read the things that interest me. I do not get involved in others’ squabbles. I only comment on things that I find important and/or positive. I try not to waste my time following catty threads or making comments that start arguments. Lastly, I limit my time on any of my social networking sites. I do have a life outside the internet that is far more important. Wishing you the best, LA
By leigh ann on 02/16/2009 9:15 am
leigh ann
Very good comments this week!
By leigh ann on 02/16/2009 9:10 am
Tee Zee
Excellent discussion here!
By Tee Zee on 02/16/2009 2:28 pm
EKA -
Well, Well, Well, w0w ! I have just spent the last 2 hours, when I should have been working (!) catching up on this discussion. I don’t check in often on the weekend, I pretty much need a break from the constant “post checking”, but, after coming back on Monday and finding this most interesting conversation, I have a few things to add to this topic, if my opinion means anything, and it may not ! First, to the founders …Thank You ! I remember seeing you on Charlie Rose and thinking ” What a great idea ! A site for women over 40, a safe place where we don’t have to compete with all the computer wonk men sitting in their mother’s basement” I signed in that night and have been here regularly since then. I’ve been known to have an opinion now and then ( ;-) and LOVE having a good conversation with smart, thoughtful people. It’s been great. When did it change ? ….. Well, during the primaries it got heated, but that is as it should. We were talking about serious issues and we had our favorite candidate, and you know what they say about Religion & politics ? Someone at the very beginning or this thread had it right. We are not talking face to face, with the usual self censorship that goes on when you risk being punched in the face for saying something outrageous. We are on the anonymous internet !! We can say anything we please .. we are not going to be fired, or embarrassed, or tattled on to our mothers …. it is part of the beauty of the medium. Let it all out, say what you really think. But, oh, it is not that simple, for once we get here we realize that we really DO care. We are conversing with some amazing, smart women, women who we discover are kindred spirits, who we KNOW, that if they were closer we would be out having a long cup of tea with, exchanging intimacies and asking advice. And that is where a self policing community come in. You know the saying ” You don’t sh** where you eat ” ? That is what we discovered at w0w, we hold it precious and value the members, even the ones we disagree with … because as women, we know we ultimately have much more in common than political differences. The BIG change ?? I seem to remember a thread on Anne Coulter, and w0w was linked at Drudge and there were tons of first posters, angry posters, not interested in a conversation, just trolling, and they brought out the worst in us. I got sucked in as well, and admit it was fun to call someone a jerk. But it was like a “one night stand” … I hated myself in the morning. It wasn’t worth it. The “woman” thing ….. Having said all this, ladies, we must admit that most of us do not enjoy a verbal fight. I have been in the middle of a “spirited”conversation at a party, usually with some man who assumed he had all the answers because he was a man, and many of the other women went running from the room, telling me afterward that they ” don’t like confrontation, were not raised that way”. Most of us are way over 40 and must admit that is how we were raised, weren’t we ? When some of these conversations get heated it is uncomfortable, and I abhor the name calling, but I am against censorship. This is the internet and it is free, the ultimate democracy, and it will not always be pleasant. We are big girls and we can take it. I heard a wonderful quote here ages ago and it is relevant here …. ” I refuse to let fools use up room in my head “. I have learned the avatars that i know will usually contain some statement that I will find either, simplistic, offensive , stupid ( in my opinion) or boring, and I just skim over them. I don’t want them banned, they can’t hurt me, I just move on and look for something stimulating. They are like an ill-mannered child …. if we ignore them, maybe they will give up and go away. Meanwhile, all my net-friends, please stay, I have developed quite a fondness for you all and consider my life richer because you are there. Thank You ! EKA
By EKA - on 02/17/2009 12:51 am
rocky rocky
EKA — I don’t know if you count me among your “net-friends,” but I do feel simpatico with you. Must say that it is difficult to stay on wOw sometimes, not only because of the impolite posters but by the choices the wOw staff sometimes makes. However, I then remember that wOw introduced me to people I’m quite fond of, has given me positive reinforcement, and it has encouraged me to start experimenting and exploring on the Internet in ways I’d never have thought of on my own. For all that it has my gratitude and, at least for while, my continued loyalty. Best to you EKA — Rocky
By rocky rocky on 02/17/2009 12:46 pm
EKA -
Thanks, Rocky … and yes, I do mean you, and most of the other sassy women I have met here. You know, we need to be less thin -skinned, some people are going to get overly contentious in the political threads because politics has become Limbaugh-ized, but I don’t feel it adds anything to the discussion and choose to skim over them, but I’m certainly not going to “take my ball and go home ” because some people are bullies. AND, this is a site that is trying to ”make it”, they are not profitable yet, and those 800 post topics are good for the advertising model. This is a business after all, these women did not invest their money totally out of the goodness of their hearts, and a little controversy and buzz is good for the visibility. Actually, the visibility on Drudge is what brought some of the vipers here ! So, yeah, they make some of the topics “teasers” , and from the title we know who the usual posters will be, and sometimes I enjoy the skirmishes … “Oh yeah, so’s your momma” can be clever sometimes. On this wide world of the internet we ned to develop thicker skin … it is not for the feint of heart. Please hang in there, net-friend. Best back to you, EKA
By EKA - on 02/17/2009 1:41 pm
Sarah N.
There is no “civil discourse” on the internet. I know the older generation is fairly new to this whole concept of online discourse and conversation but those of us who in large part ‘grew up’ on the internet (I’m 28 btw so I just missed the facebook scene) are pretty used to it. As old as trolls and flame posts are; so too is the aged debate about moderation. I’ll cut right to the chase: its never fair. And it’s not just here at wOw. Anytime you have PEOPLE moderating conversation it is by definition subjective in nature. It varies from mod to mod what does or does not fly; and the fact that one person finds something offensive does not make it so. As I’ve repeatedly stated before the largest problem this site has is that the UI for threads is god awful. For the most part this place is no different than any other forum on the internet; and those who thought it would be well thats just plain old dilusional. Just because you registered here doesn’t mean you have the right to a-say what you want or b-be shielded from seeing what you dont want to ‘hear’. This is an entirely profit driven vehicle; some of you forget that when you sneer about ‘click revenue’. Its a private forum. Those of you that wish this was more like a public forum typically are the ones that have a problem with anyone else’s viewpoint (hello2u hypocrisy); or simply forget that at the end of the day this is the internet. As a guest on this site you can hope for a moderator that at least attempts to be impartial (those of you screaming about unjust/inequitable treatment of viewpoints clearly haven’t been around the internet much to know that the moderating here actually is comparatively speaking fairly evenhanded) or you can simply choose to patronize another site. But be warned. Its the internet. Anonymity+audience=loudmouthed retard in just over 90% of cases and thats at any site you go to unless youre the one moderating. (Which is a thankless, aggrivating, annoying job that thankfully I don’t have anymore). If youre offended by treatment here you’d probably do well to just shelve the whole “internet talking thing” that the kids are doing these days. While my generation has largely learned to ignore the fracas those more used to structure and order in society tend to be a tad more upset about the free for all online discussions typically turn into because simply its not something that they are used to. The real mind bender is - should anyone ever “have” to get used to someone’s need to vent and spew vitriol at anyone who is within ‘earshot’?
By Sarah N. on 02/17/2009 2:04 pm
rocky rocky
Thanks for explaining so much, Susan N.
By rocky rocky on 02/17/2009 2:21 pm
Murphy Mac
Sarah, I too appreciate your experience and insight. Thank you. Your statement “Anonymity+audience=loudmouthed retard in just over 90% of cases and thats at any site you go to unless youre the one moderating.”…. sounds more like what has happened to most of us who are complaining. It’s easy to read/listen to valid, reasonable points of view, but comments meant to “tear the flesh” are neither valid or reasonable. Perhaps that is why those kinds of “comments” do not get a reasonable reply from those of us who were targeted for a flesh tearing. One wonders, as a parent, if we are supposed to continue to teach civility, manners, etc. or just tell the kids, “whoever is loudest/strongest wins?” From my point of view, that kind of non-teaching of civility harks back to cave-man-woman days.
By Murphy Mac on 02/17/2009 3:42 pm