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Wall Street Weekly | 11/21/2008 10:10 am

Liz Peek: Is a Decade of Depression Upon Us?

By Liz Peek
Dorothea Lange/Library of Congress

Bears, Bulls, Chickens and Pigs: wOw’s Wall Street Weekly with Liz Peek (Week of 11/17) 

Editor’s Note: Liz Peek is a financial columnist and the author of wOw’s SHEconomics. 

OK, so now I am getting really angry. And also frightened. This may be very good news, because those of you who regularly read this column (bless you!) know that I have steadfastly looked for the silver lining these past few months. When everyone is running in one direction, I usually try to head in the other. That’s what you’re supposed to do as an investor, but it sure hasn’t helped this year. Recently, it’s been smart to run for the exits along with everyone else.

I’m mad – at Congress, at Treasury Secretary Paulson (I wish he would develop laryngitis), at President Bush, who has so squandered his personal capital that he can’t produce even a modicum of credible reassurance for the nation, at the auto companies for sounding more alarm bells at exactly the worst time and for resolutely making terrible automobiles, at the banks for sitting on piles of money, at the idiot at my favorite light-rock music station who started playing Christmas music on November 10 reminding me of just how somber the holidays are going to be this year, for all those who are  pulling their money out of the market and buying Treasuries instead and for one of my friends who said to a group at lunch the other day, “Well, my husband saw this coming so we are in very, very good shape.” I almost punched her. The new social etiquette is: Don’t crow. Most people are hurting, badly.

I live in New York, the epicenter of this crisis. I don’t at all want to minimize the pain being felt elsewhere, but here in the country’s financial center everyone knows people who have lost their jobs and their fortunes. Talk easily turns to that most dreaded possibility – New York sliding back into the crime-ridden darkness of the 1970s when magnificent apartments sold for one dollar – to someone who could handle the maintenance. Already the son of a friend has been mugged – at midnight on the street where I live – no injuries, thank heavens, but a very frightening episode nonetheless.

So is this the end? Are we heading for a decade of depression? Are Treasuries the only place to put money? Most people think that the shocking drop in stock prices has little to do with fundamentals and everything to do with panic. Look at United States Steel (NYSE X $21), which is selling at two-and-a-half times forward earnings despite a robust balance sheet and expectations of future infrastructure spending which would boost demand for steel. The stock is being trashed because all types of construction (now including commercial) are headed south, guaranteeing a downturn in steel demand. Still … two times earnings?

And what about Citigroup, selling under $5 per share? This mighty financial institution that only recently received another shot of capital from their Saudi prince – isn’t the company going to survive? The talk late last night was of restructuring or possible sale, but surely most scenarios would not wipe out the common shareholders.

The best explanation for the rout in stocks that I have read recently was in yesterday’s Wall Street Journal. In a story titled “Ignore the Stock Market Until February,” a former hedge-fund manager details several reasons that the market is plummeting. The first, believe it or not, is tax-loss selling. Even though the market has seemingly gone straight down all year, fund managers are still sitting on gains in stocks they bought years ago. Since investors want their money back – Right Now! – funds are taking gains as they dump stocks. The ultimate insult will be to find out that you’re down 55% in the mutual fund you just redeemed, but you still owe Uncle Sam capital gains tax. I had dinner with a longtime manager earlier this week who warned me that everyone should look into this. Most of us (sadly) are in an excellent position to take losses, and should do so.

57 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Mommy Dearest
I may be an old, dead movie star, dears, but the one thing I have done is a good job with my money. In 1975, 1982, 1987, 1992 and now, I bought Berkshire Hathaway, which is now down 50%, and is managed by a guy who says “Well, it’s happened before. It’s happened a lot worse than that. I mean, in 1929, it went from 381 down to 42, an 89 percent decline. So, we’ve had it. I mean, most people don’t even remember from ‘37 and ‘38 that it went down 50 percent, for example… That 66 to 11497 for the Dow in the last century was not in a straight line. A capitalistic system overshoots, it overshoots in markets, it overshoots in terms of leverage and all kinds of things. But it works very well over time.” So worry if you want to, my dears, but this old girl is buying again. I guess that the one GOOD thing about being around since dirt was new, is I’ve seen this before and don’t waste my time panicking. Don’t borrow money to buy stock is this old broad’s advice to you. Tah tah!
By Mommy Dearest on 11/21/2008 12:02 pm
gulliver fourmyle
do you live on ‘Sunset Blvd’?
By gulliver fourmyle on 11/24/2008 10:03 pm
Diana T
Oh, Liz, I know NY is the epicenter of this debacle. But, if you don’t think we are feeling it out here in the netherlands, you are sadly mistaken. And, in our limited income conditions, please do not say that you all up there feel it more than us. Go to Eastern Kentucky, third world under the best of circumstances. Parts of Ohio, and by the way, my date and I were mugged up there over a year ago, and thank god we are alive. Ask any mother buying food for the family, any couple paying tuition for a kid’s schooling, any widow or M’care recipient paying for health care, any town counsel, any mayor, and any governor trying to re-budget after severe federal cutbacks, any policeman or fireman in any town, and ALL of them could have told you what was happening a year ago. You are saying you are trying to find silver linings; I think most of us are saying a better term for that is an illusion.
By Diana T on 11/21/2008 1:07 pm
beth willis
Wonderfully stated, Diana. ( Southern Poverty Law Center just won a case against the Klan in Kentucky.) That was an example of defeating racism and evil. What will we do if authorities have to corral the hungry throwing bricks through the supermarket windows? I always enjoy your posts, Diana. I still have your outline of what you would do if you were elected president, holding up well. In particular, with the mention of Senator Clinton as a candidate for Secretary of State, political analysts point out that her foreign affairs advisor was Richard Holbrooke, who then advised Obama. Their question: why appoint a middle’woman’? Peace and grace
By beth willis on 11/21/2008 3:07 pm
gulliver fourmyle
Ohio? are ya foolish? ya got off easy—-as a kid, pursuing the music biz, my ex and kids lived in Manhattan, early 70’s—-tough-turf, so after 7 months we drove back to LA, where i was signed—-but on the way, we camped in an Ohio state park—-i had long-hair—-and camping next? a bunch of drunk Ohio kids—-i hear them deciding to ‘torch’ that hippie’s tent—-so i unpack my ‘piece’, blow-the-hell out from their feet—-they leave—-ya can’t do such now—-the only thing Ohio ever produced was Devo—-put the rest in your dumpster—-worst state i’ve ever seen. don’t judge all on any Ohioian—-i yet know several—-dumb, dangerous—-there is no silver-lining in Ohio—-just trouble—-
By gulliver fourmyle on 11/24/2008 10:32 pm
Sherrie Crews
I don’t at all want to minimize the pain being felt elsewhere, but here in the country’s financial center everyone knows people who have lost their jobs and their fortunes.” Um, ‘scuze me here Liz, but for the last eight years, as 4.2 million people lost their jobs long before this Wall Street “economic crisis”, entire towns and small cities “elsewhere” have been suffering the effects of localized or even regional states of economic depression. When the textile, apparel, furniture, appliance and electronics industries started closing plants and putting thousands of people at a time out of work thereby stopping the economy of the towns and small cities that were built around them, it resulted in both community and personal financial devastation the likes of which nobody in the New York financial district can even imagine. There can be no “salary caps” or “spreading of the wealth” in a capitalist free enterprise system, but there can be laws against executives squirrelling away billions while at the same time squandering corporate funds on absurd extravagances then declaring corporate bankruptcy and putting thousands of workers out of jobs as “cost cutting” measures.
By Sherrie Crews on 11/21/2008 2:39 pm
Diana T
Sherrie, I don’t know if there can be laws about what the Stockholders of any company are willing to give to their departing executives, but I just want to say there is something called a Moral Compass. These guys have come to believe that they have Entitlement to the Golden Parachutes. And, the stockholders say nothing and just let it happen. Now, if we are going to, as a nation, support the bailouts, then we all have something to say. This is very similar to our world 100 years ago. Remember the Robber Barons and their “cottages” in Newport and the totally unrealistic amount of money they squandered on their narcissitic lives? That is the reason the Federal Income Tax of 1913 was put into place. So…if it is indeed legal for these people to get megamillion bonus bucks, they should be taxed out the wazoo for it. http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml This is why I have limited sympathy for the mega rich. And, I have heard Warren Buffet say the same thing. BTW, a hundred years ago our nation was around 20% immigrant population, we do not nearly that many right now.
By Diana T on 11/21/2008 4:39 pm
Barbara Taylor
I was hopeful a few weeks ago; now I’m back to being scared. I hope it’s true and February things turn around.
By Barbara Taylor on 11/21/2008 3:36 pm
Diana T
Barbara, From everything I have been reading, it is going to take years and we are in a rough ride. We didn’t get this way over night, and we won’t be okay in just a couples of months. I told my daughter to brace herself, but at least it brings families and one’s family of friends together closer.
By Diana T on 11/21/2008 4:43 pm
Barbara Taylor
Hi Diana, I don’t expect things to turn around and be back to normal. I hope it’s true in February things start to turn around, instead of continuing to spiral out of control.
By Barbara Taylor on 11/21/2008 5:09 pm
Diana T
You know, Barbara, I think everybody, including the present administration, is hanging on until the Obama Team comes up to the plate. Problem is, no one is sure if the Detroit 3 can hang in that long. At least it is obvious to me that Obama is lining everyone up to take off running as soon as the ceremonies are over Jan. 20. And, so far, he has a very good group known for their ability to work both sides of the aisle, which is what it’s going to take.
By Diana T on 11/21/2008 11:39 pm
phyllis Doyle Pepe
Today our guy who plows our long driveway in the winter came to see Joe, my husband, to settle the agreement for this coming season. We have a snow blower from 1985( a wonderfully built machine from a company in Wisconsin, all steel, no plastic,but is unfortunately now defunct) that Joe has taken pristine care of and is still running albeit with new tires and many tweaks here and there and which supplements the in between snowfalls. But we need a heavy snow plow when we get heavy snow. Our snow plow guy tells Joe that his business, which is mainly paving, is down 75%. Work that he has done for two customers last year ran into tens of thousands of dollars and they are unable to pay him. His house, which is not far from ours, has been on the market for a year and a half for $650, 000 and has not had a nibble. He tells Joe that he has never seen it this bad in his lifetime. Our nearest neighbor who is an engineer for a large firm tells us that most of the staff in his department have been laid off and he may be also. And on it goes. It’s a scary time .
By phyllis Doyle Pepe on 11/21/2008 5:25 pm
phyllis Doyle Pepe
P.S. Which brings us back to Greenspan. After becoming a symbol of America’s economic turnaround in the 90’s and anointing himself the nation’s high priest of fiscal probity, he lent crucial aid and comfort to the most irresponsible administration in history. As Paul Krugman said back in 2004, “He never said, ‘Let’s raise taxes and cut benefits for working families so that we can give big tax cuts to the rich!’ but that’s the end result of his advice along with using the prestige of his office to undermine the hated institutions of the welfare state and ignore the bubble that was ready to burst.
By phyllis Doyle Pepe on 11/21/2008 5:39 pm
gulliver fourmyle
3 cheers for taxing-the-bleep of the wealthy—-what-to-hell is a 70-year-old-man/woman going to do w/$70 million? Bribe God? or The Devil? one more time—-Money is a social instrument—-to permit thieves to loot a society’s wealth should be criminal—- if ‘capitalistic-socialism’ (that’s what we are) does not get its act together? we’re toast—-
By gulliver fourmyle on 11/21/2008 6:30 pm
HA BIBI
No dearest Gully, the wealthy are going to leave it to their relatives, those that deserve it. Not to folk’s that are not in the family, nor did a damn thing to earn anothers money. :)
By HA BIBI on 11/23/2008 12:32 pm