Sign in to wowOwow

Enter the email address that you used when registering at wowOwow.
The password field is case sensitive. Click here if you have forgotten your password.

Please register for wowOwow

Newsletter subscriptions
Sign up to receive wowOwow's weekly newsletter and get our best picks delivered right to your inbox. Our newsletter content is hand-picked by the wowOwow editorial team and provides the top features, news, and commentary from our site. Subscribing to our newsletter is free and safe. We will never share your email or other information with a third-party without your direct consent.
By registering, you indicate that you have read and agree
with our privacy policy and terms of service.

Wall Street Weekly | 11/21/2008 10:10 am

Liz Peek: Is a Decade of Depression Upon Us?

By Liz Peek
Dorothea Lange/Library of Congress

Bears, Bulls, Chickens and Pigs: wOw’s Wall Street Weekly with Liz Peek (Week of 11/17) 

Editor’s Note: Liz Peek is a financial columnist and the author of wOw’s SHEconomics. 

OK, so now I am getting really angry. And also frightened. This may be very good news, because those of you who regularly read this column (bless you!) know that I have steadfastly looked for the silver lining these past few months. When everyone is running in one direction, I usually try to head in the other. That’s what you’re supposed to do as an investor, but it sure hasn’t helped this year. Recently, it’s been smart to run for the exits along with everyone else.

I’m mad – at Congress, at Treasury Secretary Paulson (I wish he would develop laryngitis), at President Bush, who has so squandered his personal capital that he can’t produce even a modicum of credible reassurance for the nation, at the auto companies for sounding more alarm bells at exactly the worst time and for resolutely making terrible automobiles, at the banks for sitting on piles of money, at the idiot at my favorite light-rock music station who started playing Christmas music on November 10 reminding me of just how somber the holidays are going to be this year, for all those who are  pulling their money out of the market and buying Treasuries instead and for one of my friends who said to a group at lunch the other day, “Well, my husband saw this coming so we are in very, very good shape.” I almost punched her. The new social etiquette is: Don’t crow. Most people are hurting, badly.

I live in New York, the epicenter of this crisis. I don’t at all want to minimize the pain being felt elsewhere, but here in the country’s financial center everyone knows people who have lost their jobs and their fortunes. Talk easily turns to that most dreaded possibility – New York sliding back into the crime-ridden darkness of the 1970s when magnificent apartments sold for one dollar – to someone who could handle the maintenance. Already the son of a friend has been mugged – at midnight on the street where I live – no injuries, thank heavens, but a very frightening episode nonetheless.

So is this the end? Are we heading for a decade of depression? Are Treasuries the only place to put money? Most people think that the shocking drop in stock prices has little to do with fundamentals and everything to do with panic. Look at United States Steel (NYSE X $21), which is selling at two-and-a-half times forward earnings despite a robust balance sheet and expectations of future infrastructure spending which would boost demand for steel. The stock is being trashed because all types of construction (now including commercial) are headed south, guaranteeing a downturn in steel demand. Still … two times earnings?

And what about Citigroup, selling under $5 per share? This mighty financial institution that only recently received another shot of capital from their Saudi prince – isn’t the company going to survive? The talk late last night was of restructuring or possible sale, but surely most scenarios would not wipe out the common shareholders.

The best explanation for the rout in stocks that I have read recently was in yesterday’s Wall Street Journal. In a story titled “Ignore the Stock Market Until February,” a former hedge-fund manager details several reasons that the market is plummeting. The first, believe it or not, is tax-loss selling. Even though the market has seemingly gone straight down all year, fund managers are still sitting on gains in stocks they bought years ago. Since investors want their money back – Right Now! – funds are taking gains as they dump stocks. The ultimate insult will be to find out that you’re down 55% in the mutual fund you just redeemed, but you still owe Uncle Sam capital gains tax. I had dinner with a longtime manager earlier this week who warned me that everyone should look into this. Most of us (sadly) are in an excellent position to take losses, and should do so.

57 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

gulliver fourmyle
you truly miss the point—-w/no society money has 0 value—-as for ‘wealth’ that is a bit more complex than you apparently think—-being a creative entrepreneur, as many, we ‘invent’ new markets—-yet those less adept at creativity may easily be quite good at ‘copying’ another’s skill—-you may not ‘copyright’, ‘patent’ a ‘unique-to-you’ market—-and ‘bigger-fish’ thrive on Your gift as they eat you alive. so, from the market-creator’s view, what exactly is ‘another’s money’? Tesla is a perfect example, and an interesting wiki bit that shows my point—-i am not advocating Marx—-simply a ‘socially-beneficial’ economy that both leaves the absurdly wealthy a tidy purse whilst caring for what that loot requires to be of any value—-people—- otherwise? you’re back to living in caves—-your stance reflects Mel Brook’s ‘2000-year-old-man’s’ National Anthem—- ‘Let ‘Em All Go To Hell—Except Cave 76.’—-:)
By gulliver fourmyle on 11/23/2008 2:53 pm
HA BIBI
If I work the money I earn is mine, don’t care how much. Reinvesting back into my buisness is another story completely seperate from what I make. Reinvestment determines how much growth I want for increasing the buisness. Social programs need to be developed by the government and based upon the taxes structures that have been implemented to be fair to all, not the taking from those who have worked hard and make them pay more just because they worked hard and made more. We already pay taxes into the Government for that very reason, not on the ability I have to own and operate a buisness with profit and taking that profit and doleing it out to those who have not worked for it, when it was I who did. Ask yourself Gully if you made say, 2 million, do you honestly think you should pay above your tax ratio just to have that given to some duffas that sat on his ass and did nothing let alone nothing to have earned it? Or the dude who sat around on unemployment and paid no taxes of any kind at the end of the year, because he didn’t earn enough to warrant having to pay taxes? Gully don’t disapoint me, I tend to believe you are more intelligent than that. Otherwise I’ll have to “EN Gaurde” you, LOL :)
By HA BIBI on 11/23/2008 3:23 pm
HA BIBI
Also, Don’t misunderstand, I don’t agree with the ludicrous bonuses that CEO’s give themselves, bonuses should be given to all in the form of profit sharing as everyone had a part in the success of the company that would even warrant bonuses given period. I am only speaking to the salary that one makes for doing and successfully so I might add, the job for which he/she was hired to do. There is the individuals salary and there is the buisness profit and that is what should be equaly distributed to the employees whether it be invested into better health plan options, stock options, ect. Or just a plain old profit sharing check, with each individual allowed to choose how they want their profit given to them.
By HA BIBI on 11/23/2008 4:05 pm
gulliver fourmyle
Ouch!—-watch-out with your foil—-at least you’re on the right track—-once again: place you securely alone, with the planet’s wealth—-what to do? w/o other people? hence $ Are a social instrument—-never truly Yours at all—-advise re-reading the ‘King-Midas’ story—-:)
By gulliver fourmyle on 11/23/2008 4:25 pm
gulliver fourmyle
there are 2 ‘classes’ here—-employees/employers—-given you are among the latter, may you learn from a few of my errors? the Biggie? ya can’t have too much insurance—-even if you’re selling bananas—-i had an 8-figure biz whacked by Clinton—-how? not his work personally—-but a major contributor was the Big banana co. then Clinton is ‘lobbyed’ to place a 100% import duty on said contributors competition—-if ya understand Congress, ya can see this coming—-by the time every pin-head tacked on his ‘rider’ this ‘banana’s’ duty increase, it spread to many un-related bizs— a prime example was the several importers of Giant German battery back-ups (for police, hospitals, FEMA, NASA, NSA, etc.) most were medium incs. working on a solid 20% net net—-wham! their cost increases 100%—-‘Out -of-Biz’—-this is a frequent deal, and you may insure vs. guv BS action—-my inc. insurer offered about the only show on earth—-LLoyds—-$5K/month—-cost based on net-worth—-did i think i needed such? it is a ‘write-off’ vs. tax—-but no-way did my agent explain the very real problem—-or the need to ‘En Guarde’—-so i passed—-Big Mistake—- if you’re an MBA you should know—-i’m not, and i violated a main rule we entrepreneurs near always do—-after 2-3 years? ya find a red-hot new MBA, buy ‘em w/shares and a fat salary—-get ‘em on ‘The Board’—-they’ll earn it—-by either explaining the inc.’s need, or out-voting you—-as their butt is on the line as well—- it may get worse—-Big Money is like ‘honey-to-flies’—-i did have the sense to have the Best legal firm, the Best CPA firm—-but i also had a factory blown-up, my only sister shot dead when she wouldn’t ‘jump-ship’ w/all inc. contacts, data, etc.—-greedy boy-friend, partnered w/greedy suppliers—- and then ya got the absolute mess of older incs. watching your ads get bigger, and their sales falling—-here come the ‘nuisance-law-suits’, bribed libels—-it’s a jungle, Beautiful—-perhaps less simple than you know—-be careful—-don’t forget the ‘Neutragena-Soap’ deal—-some guy wanted to buy the biz—-owner said ‘No’—-so the ‘buyer’ hires a ‘cleaner’—-the owner was out of town—-but his wife and 5 children were all whacked—- and it’s never just ‘lonely-at-the-top’—-it’s dangerous—-Touche’—-
By gulliver fourmyle on 11/23/2008 6:15 pm
Sherrie Crews
This is why I have limited sympathy for the mega rich. And, I have heard Warren Buffet say the same thing.” By Diana T on 11/21/2008 5:39 pm Diana, Warren Buffet also said these CEOs should be investing some of those exorbitant salaries and bonuses back into their own companies when they get in trouble rather than taking the money and running. No CEO should be legally allowed to cut the jobs of the workers to “cut costs” while taking millions or billions in salary and bonuses, let alone a golden parachute when they bail out on their failure. Yes there should be a moral compass, but wasn’t that what Greenspan said he was counting on? You’re absolutely right about the robber barons and that’s exactly what these CEOs, with the help of the republican party, are striving for. They want to get obscenely wealthy off the sweat of the working people the same way those robber barons did during the industrial revolution. But with this new industrial revolution it’s the Asian and Central American people who are sweating through their toil for a pittance while the American workers are just forgotten altogether so that these people can continue to amass obscene fortunes.
By Sherrie Crews on 11/23/2008 3:18 pm
Sherrie Crews
Social programs need to be developed by the government and based upon the taxes structures that have been implemented to be fair to all, not the taking from those who have worked hard and make them pay more just because they worked hard and made more.” By Elaine AL Meqdad on 11/23/2008 4:23 pm As soon as we have a tax structure that is fair to all we can talk in those terms. Do you really think those CEOs and execs who have basically everything in their private lives done for them are working harder than those people doing the heavy work on the assembly lines and then going home running their own errands, raising their own kids, doing their own house and yard work, etc.? I don’t think so. “We already pay taxes into the Government for that very reason, not on the ability I have to own and operate a buisness with profit and taking that profit and doleing it out to those who have not worked for it, when it was I who did.” By Elaine AL Meqdad on 11/23/2008 4:23 pm If it’s “your” business and you hoard profits that could be put back into keeping “your” business running and let the business fail, then you should be responsible for and to the employees that your greed and bad management put out of their livelihoods. Or, if it’s your responsibility to keep the stockholders’ business running profitably and you pay yourself an exorbitant salary and bonuses while the business fails then you and the stockholders who allowed it should be responsible for and to those workers. In neither scenario did you in any way earn the right to take the profits of those peoples’ labors and then turn them out, let alone to have the taxes they paid from their comparitively meager earnings bail you out.
By Sherrie Crews on 11/24/2008 8:07 am
Patty E
CEO Pay Rates and Minimum Wages in the U.S. vs. Other Nations Data are as of 2005: Country Ratio of CEO pay to average worker pay Japan 11:1 Germany 12:1 France 15:1 Italy 20:1 Canada 20:1 South Africa 21:1 Britain 22:1 Hong Kong 41:1 Mexico 47:1 Venezuela 50:1 United States 475:1 Country Minimum wages around the world and what percent of gross domestic product it currently accounts for Country Min. Wage ($US) % of GDP Australia $362/week 54% Belgium $1,500/month 48% France $9.18 51% Greece $34/day 42% Ireland $8/hour 32% Netherlands $1,507/month 47% New Zealand $6.45/hour 49% Spain $592/month 26% UK $8.53/hour 45% USA $5.15/hour 25% From http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:veODt0kVP7wJ:www.cab.latech.edu/~mkr…
By Patty E on 11/24/2008 5:01 pm
Char Star
If Liz Peek is a “financial columnist”—then it’s way past time for her coy protests of being “angry” & “frightened” by what’s going on. Who is she kidding? The financial specialists I’ve been reading have been warning us & talking about the coming, & now the current, meltdown for at least the last 2 years. What has happened was obviously coming—it was not a secret nor a mystery of any kind. Maybe you could have gotten “angry” & “frightened” in the mainstream media back when it would have done some good—eh Liz? Honestly, you wonder how people can make a living with this drivel.
By Char Star on 11/25/2008 12:31 pm
Sherrie Crews
There’s one thing that I continue to hear these “financial experts” say that I just can’t make any sense of. Nearly all of them that I’ve heard talk about the Obama tax structure plans disagree with rolling back the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy or allowing them expire. They all say that these tax breaks are what are needed to create jobs. How many have they created in the last 8 years? I mean, I know that they’ve put millions of Asians and Central Americans to work, but what have they done for us lately?
By Sherrie Crews on 11/25/2008 2:38 pm