Politics | 06/04/2008 9:35 am

At This Historic Moment ... A wOw Reader Quote That Says It All

Comment to Women on the Web Forum: Hillary Announcement Watch at wowOwow on June 3

Frank Peterson - 6/3/2008 5:09 PM

Stop a moment and think about this: a black man in the White House. When I voted for John Kennedy in my first vote for the presidency, the thought of a woman in the White House was so far in the future that few thought about it or even let the possibility into the mind. The same thing about a black man in the White House — unthinkable. Now, 40-plus years later we have both. I find that amazing and incredible and I’m so happy I lived to see this day. I don’t know about the rest of you but that makes my century. That gives me hope, finally, after 40 years of incompetents and snake-oil salesmen in the White House, that the impossible is coming true. That is so incredible that I am stunned and elated by it all. Finally.

207 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Thank you Frannie for this feedback. It has been noted and taken in.

By T S on 06/05/2008 9:34 pm

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I am really amazed at all this. This site is put up on the web by the ladies who started it. They decide the topics which we are encouraged to make comments amongst ourselves over. We do not pay a subscriber fee to belong and it isn’t a democracy. As I see it, we are guests here and what has transpired is about the same as guests being harsh to other guests while in the establishment belonging to someone else. I understand Mugsy’s post. I understand that many things need to change in this world, for women, for children, for everybody. Where I become perplexed is when the concept of this site being for women over 40 ONLY comes into the equation. That means all the young women have to leave. All the men. Who goes next? The people who don’t agree with the majority? What does that prove? That we can be as bad-assed as men? Nobody knows what it is like to be another person. None of us who are women can know what it is like to be a man, they can’t know what it is like to be us. White people can’t know the tribulations of being a person of color and so on and so on. But does isolating ourselves help? We all live in the same world and it would behoove us to learn to communicate in a civil way with each other. Of course there are many talented women whom documentaries can be made about but if it is so offensive that Ms. Nevins has been involved in a film regarding Roman Polanski? I’m curious about all things, not just things pertaining to the female experience. I applaud Ms. Nevins for her endeavor. Do I wish she’d picked a subject about a woman? No because it is her work. I’m just glad there are more and more women out there whose voices are being heard. I’m not that particular over the subject because I don’t want anyone telling me what my voice should be. When I took my scholastic tests in high school, I scored in the top percentile. My “guidance” counselor congratulated me then went on to say I should not take up valuable space in the heavy weight classes so the guys trying to get out of going to Vietnam could be in them. After all, I was just going to get married anyway. I laughed and asked him just who were all these guys going to be marrying if not we women. Nowadays, the daughters of my friends are doing amazing things we didn’t have a chance at doing. I think it’s exciting. I know we have a long, long way to go, but there has been significant improvement since I was young and I prefer looking at the glass as being in the process of filling and not half empty. When I was young, we didn’t have control over our reproductive rights. The best we could hope for was to be a secretary, nurse or teacher or marry “well.” The right to vote for us didn’t come about till the year my mother was born. And even though things aren’t equal, I do not view myself as a second-class citizen. I know my value and my worth and I know each and every one of us is significant and vital to the great purpose of things. I know I wouldn’t want to be a woman any other time in history. If Mugsy and the others who are so unhappy with the way this site is being run have not met with satisfaction by first approaching those who are in charge here, then perhaps they need to start their own site where they can control every aspect of it. I’d be willing to check that out. I like hearing all the different thoughts, from everyone. As for Dr. Klein, he is vastly amusing because he actually takes himself seriously and we know better. The joke is on him. This is just sad and more of the infighting that always defeats causes for advancement.

By M L Staats on 06/05/2008 6:46 pm

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This site is still in Beta. I think that means that the Founders would like the input of the users of the site. I am not the type of person who can “sit down and shut up” when something seems off, in any case. I don’t think any of us are saying that young women or all men have to leave. In fact, I asked Frank NOT to leave. We are just saying that if the site is intended for women over forty, maybe some more thought should go into how best to serve the intended audience. If that is not the intent of the site, my mistake. I believed the press releases. We ladies over forty are astonishing. As you say, many of us met with overt sexism in our younger years and had to use strength of character to overcome it. That is fairly interesting, and as you have noticed, as a result we have had a lot to say about current events, art, music, and other issues. As for Roman Polanski, he is just very, very low on my list of interesting topics. Ms. Nevin may have made a film about him, and surely someone will want to see it, but not me. And while he may have had serious difficulties in his life, his fleeing the country to escape justice for his forcible rape of a child makes him a rich pedophile in my book. My question to you, ML, what do you think we should be discussing? Maybe this is not a democracy, but if it is in beta, why not offer a suggestion? I do not like your suggestion that those who have qualms about this site should simply leave. I do not even think that the owners of this site want that.

By Elizabeth Bennett on 06/05/2008 7:45 pm

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Here is a link to what I suppose one could call the “mission statement” of this website: http://www.wowowow.com/who-we-are

By Elizabeth Bennett on 06/05/2008 8:16 pm

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Elizabeth, thank you! I so agree re. “I do not like … suggestion that those who have qualms about this site should simply leave. I do not even think that the owners of this site want that.” just re-read this entire thread (yikes) and can’t quite believe this virtual storm in a cyber tea cup … I certainly felt that neither Frank, nor Maurine and others really read some of the posts (incl.mine) they so object to … no one attacked Frank, everyone complimented him and wanted him to stay - just that the topic at some point was changed to a more general discussion of the editorial choices of this site … and that ‘unfortunately’ brought up the touchy topic of sexism … well, that is bound to happen on ‘women on the web’ … Don’t judge anyone until you have walked two moons in their moccasins … (Sharon Creech, Walk Two Moons) oh delicious synchronicity … TV in the background, and there’s the ‘Frazier’ episode, where all the women in his life appear and start in on him and each other … it’s just so funny and clever … got to go …

By Ulla on 06/06/2008 1:40 am

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Elizabeth, absolutely Roman Polanski is a rich pedophile, no doubt about it. There are many topics Ms. Nevins could have gotten involved in; this one was her choice. She’s one of the founders so what she is involved in is what she is going to post about. So, if you don’t want to watch it, don’t, by all means, that is your choice. The issue is Ms. Nevins was INVOLVED in the making of the film in a capacity that is much more than as an underling and I say hats off to her. I love that she has the opportunity. I can understand you not finding the topic high on your list - in actuality, it isn’t the most burning issue for me, either. However, I find it interesting if for no other reason than I’m amazed he blew a brilliant career because he couldn’t control his personal issues. I guess I find the fatal flaws in anyone as interesting as the great things people accomplish. It makes for a well-rounded character study. Blame that on being a writer of fiction; I’m always fascinated by the many facets of a personality, good and bad. You wrote: I do not like your suggestion that those who have qualms about this site should simply leave. I do not even think that the owners of this site want that. Elizabeth, I respond that I don’t suggest they leave at all, I must not have made that clear. I am saying if they want total control over the content of a site, they would have to make their own site because that would be the only means to have it entirely to their liking. I also don’t think the founders would want anyone to leave, either. I meant what I said, if Mugsy and others want to make a site that is dedicated to what they want, I’d probably be one of the first ones over there checking it out. I am interested in learning from everyone. And in reality, I don’t think Frank or anything to do with the man is the issue here. You ask me what I suggest we should be discussing and I say whatever moves you, just as everyone has been. I am not in the business of site building; I have no agenda, I’m here to learn from you all. I just think that if we in fact have suggestions for a Beta site, they should be taken up with the founders. We’re all guests here and I stand by that. Not any of us should be telling any of us what should be discussed but the founders and they put out the topics. It’s not as if we can start a thread up ourselves. My major concern is why spend energy telling anyone they get or don’t get something? That seems divisive. Am I interested in plastic surgery results or Yves St. Laurent clothes? Mmm, not really so I don’t read those threads but I’m very aware that there are plenty of us who are interested. I’m a politics nut so I read those. I like arts and entertainment and literature so I gravitate towards those topics. I love reading what all of you have to say. You misunderstood me or I did not make myself clear if I implied I had all the answers for what we should be discussing. If people here have qualms with the subject matter being offered for topics, well, we must approach the ladies who founded the site. I heard about it on Charlie Rose and the ladies said men could be here so I guess I expected things not to be so tightly knit, meaning only for women over 40. I am not putting anyone down, I just think there needs to be a balance and tolerance level. And one thing, too, it is hard to understand the intent of a post without the physical aspect of seeing the writer’s expression. Subtle expression and nuance are lacking in the typed word when we can’t look the writer in the eye and it is very easy to get one’s knickers in a twist when there was no ill intended. Elizabeth, have you contacted the founders with your feelings and if so, what was their reply? I’m curious, and what do you think we should be discussing?

By M L Staats on 06/05/2008 8:35 pm

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M L Well put, but I believe this site is as democratic as it can be. People can say what they want to say, the problem is in not listening to others because of belief systems, and reactions which cause inflammatory responses. We are not going to solve all the problems of the world here, we are just talking about them, and in that dialog you can discover inspirations or irritation, or just let it go. People have a right to their opinions, if they get irritated and complain - well we all do that.

By Frannie Em on 06/05/2008 8:57 pm

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M L I was responding to your first post, I hadn’t read your second when I posted.

By Frannie Em on 06/05/2008 9:01 pm

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Frannie Em, I wanted to comment on what you first posted. You wrote: People can say what they want to say, the problem is in not listening to others because of belief systems, and reactions which cause inflammatory responses. You are so spot on with that. I mean, one never knows what kind of a day a person posting has had; what happened to her six years ago that a post or phrase has triggered negatively. Communicating with this particular medium has definite challenges, spelling, punctuation and syntax not included. LOL We discuss some heavy topics and it is easy to step on toes but the important things is to listen, as you so succinctly pointed out. I think what I want to impart is that I am not one who enters these discussions with hidden agendas and a chip on my shoulder and I strive to keep in mind that I doubt that the rest of you come here to be cruel or mean, either. When I type, I try to envision us at a table, having a beverage of choice, listening to each other with open minds. I truly do find you all so interesting and I’m typing that with a smile on my face and a warm heart.

By M L Staats on 06/05/2008 9:17 pm

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M L Thanks for that and I know what you mean.

By Frannie Em on 06/05/2008 11:31 pm

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ML………You took the words right out of my mouth. I do envision us at a table — me with a glass of wine — maybe coffee for others. I also envision something absolutely yummy and chocolaty (sp) on the table. I’ve always believed that anything chocolate can cure all ills. I have never entered with any kind of hidden agenda. I just like to share my views. So, I too, will continue to type with a smile on my face and a warm heart. (I love your words.) You know, maybe it’s like Ronald Reagan said — “Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music”. So, let us type with that smile, that warm heart and lots of music. Peace

By Lady Gator on 06/06/2008 1:52 pm

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hi, frannie em. i know this is off topic, but i hope you are enjoying seeing your son.

By mary lou s on 06/05/2008 10:24 pm

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Mary lou s Hi, I haven’t seen my son, I was going to go up to Seattle but our company had some big deadlines, my youngest son had finals, and has to get his wisdom teeth out……yada yada yada. He gets block leave in July for the whole month. They used to let them off sooner but now they process and introduce them to all of the help available if they have trouble readjusting. When guys came home from WWII they came on ships that made many stops so the guys could talk and unwind - it had a somewhat healing benefit. Now the guys are still together, setting up their barracks etc and getting processed out. I think they only work half days. He calls and it is great. He will have his computer up soon and we will set up a video chat link. I am enjoying that he is back on the ground in the ‘ole U S of A.

By Frannie Em on 06/05/2008 11:39 pm

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ML Staats - “I wouldn’t want to be a woman any other time in history”. I SOOOOOOOOO agree! I only get a chance to “go around” once. I’m so glad I’ve had the opportunities I’ve had in this life. If there is “another” life for me — I hope it will be as sweet. I know that some on here are younger than I am. The progress and advancement for women that have occured during my lifetime - to me are amazing - I really do believe they will be even better for our daughters. I will never view myself or any woman as a “second class citizen”. Thank you for your thoughts and God Bless!

By Lady Gator on 06/06/2008 9:47 am

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M.L. Hate-speak is never amusing. If you translate what is said about women into racial terms, it becomes more apparent. It is not vastly amusing to hear about all them nappy-headed tap-dancers; it is not amusing to hear a vicious woman-baiter rant. It is evil, pure and simple, and should not be allowed. What is heart-breaking is that women who have lived a lifetime and purportedly have some experience, wisdom, and sense, allow this hate-speak on their website for women over 40. I will NEVER allow hate-speak around me.

By Mugsy Peabody on 06/06/2008 9:00 pm