Politics | 10/13/2008 9:21 am

wowOwow Live Reader Forum - Presidential Debate #3

Long Island’s Hofstra University will be the location and CBS News’s Bob Schieffer will be the moderator. Join the now-famous wowOwow.com reader forum for debate No. 3.

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Read more about: Election 2008, Politics, Reader Forum, Reader Forums

528 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Star—One of your best lines ever—can’t remember where I saw it—it was in response to Suzanne’s Joan Crawford about how she couldn’t vote because she is dead—your ACORN response…..best comeback ever—it still makes me laugh when I think of it. Have you heard the latest “Biden”—he was giving a speech talking about what he and Obama think is most important—“it’s a three-letter word——J—O—B—S”. He is just fantastic! Imagine if that had crossed Palin’s lips!!! There’s just something I like about Joe though, obviously not his politics, but he is rather endearing.

By eleanor roche on 10/17/2008 6:08 pm

Susan B, Interesting finding. We should all be so lucky as to be as downtrodden as Joe the simple plumber I think. He must be some plumber! See FactCheck.org: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_3.html It’s worth noting that while Wurzelbacher told Fox News’ Neil Cavuto that he lives “in a simple, middle class home” and portrayed himself as an ordinary working guy, Wurzelbacher’s $250,000 to $280,000 is a bit higher than “ordinary.” In 2007, the last year for which the Census Bureau has figures, the median income for a family in Toledo, Ohio, was $43,553.

By Donna Chee on 10/16/2008 12:33 pm

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” By Donna Chee on 10/16/2008 1:33 pm - We should all be so lucky as to be as downtrodden as Joe the simple plumber I think. He must be some plumber! Your reference incorrectly contrasts an “employee” with an “employer”. Mr. Wurzelbacher is in the market to buy a plumbing business that he has been an apprentice of. This is called “ambition”. His ambition, if he succeeds, will result in the creation of “jobs” and may provide personal wealth for his family. If successful his kids could go to better schools, wear better clothes, live a better life, buy a hybrid. (darn expensive little buggers) I am constantly amazed about the inability of “smart people” who are not able to put themselves in “another’s” shoes. To “feel their pain” (Clinton) and concerns. To start and run a business is one of the most challenging undertakings you can do. I deal exclusively with small businesses throughout the country who are either right at, the Obama line of “patriotic”, or just over it. Very few, if any, who desire to “grow” their business are not planning to add units of labor (jobs) and purchase capital goods (machinery) to accomplish that objective. Mr. Obama wishes to “regulate” those objectives that we used to call the “American Dream”. I say “Go for it Joe”! Fight the good fight for your family! Vote - John McCain & Sarah Palin - Today! Before it’s too late….

By Susan Duffy on 10/16/2008 2:45 pm

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For the facts on “Joe-the-plumber Wurzelbacher you might read this article that appeared in the Toledo Blaze. Apparently “Joe” is 1) not a plumber, 2) has never held a plumber’s license, 3) is in violation of the requirements of the plumber’s union, 4) is a registered Republican who voted for McCain in the primaries. http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/81…. It seems that Joe Wurzelbacher has a bit more baggage than we were given to believe by John-the-President-wannabe-McCain.

By Maurine H on 10/16/2008 6:09 pm

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Maurine, its worse that that!!! DO NOT BE FOOLED THIS GUY IS A PLANT. HE IS THE SON-IN-LAW OF “THE KEATING 5” FAMILY!!! Joe the Plumber? More like Joe the Keating Family Operative By David Neiwert Thursday Oct 16, 2008 8:59am http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/joe-plumber-more-joe-keating-fam…

By Amelie Poulain on 10/16/2008 10:29 pm

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Gosh, even the Obama beave patrol on MSNBC missed this gem.

By Star Lawrence on 10/18/2008 4:18 pm

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I KNOW Star. I blogged Larry King and Anderson and none of them bit. So I think its either too deep to go into. Or bloggin is a farce or the frigging election is a farce. These days its too hard to tell the difference. Am I a bit worn out or what?

By Amelie Poulain on 10/19/2008 1:40 am

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I did see today where that snitty little Kos person found that Joe (who is Sam, by the way) has unpaid tickets out here in AZ and a suspended AZ license, so now they can hound Ohio to remove his right to drive—all for questioning your dear leader.

By Star Lawrence on 10/19/2008 3:14 pm

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By Susan Duffy on 10/16/2008 …”To start and run a business is one of the most challenging undertakings you can do. I deal exclusively with small businesses throughout the country who are either right at, the Obama line of “patriotic”, or just over it. Very few, if any, who desire to “grow” their business are not planning to add units of labor (jobs) and purchase capital goods (machinery) to accomplish that objective.” Susan Duffy, I appreciate your points, but I think that you greatly read a lot more into anyones pointing out that Joe the plumber may be a plant … or propaganda tool. I don’t believe that anyone has disputed the importance of starting a small business and living the American dream — But since we are on that subject — what is your take on if that small business is bought or acquired by a large corp or venture capitalist and the “units of labor” go to over seas? What is your take on the employees that had worked 12 plus hour 7 day weeks for many years helping to develop that small business? What do you feel the responsibility should be of the new owners of that developed business that are now getting much cheaper labor in some third world country?

By Donna Chee on 10/17/2008 8:59 am

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My take on if jobs going overseas: In ALL CASES where a society is provided goods cheaper than they can produce them themselves the country is ALWAYS richer. Displaced workers are, and should be, of concern but not protected in their previous capacity. John McCain understands this and said so during the debate. We do not lament the Carriage industry when Automobiles came about, or the Whaling industry when Oil came about, or the Graphic Artists when Desktop Publishing came about. We all became empowered, more efficient, and as a society have “allocated scarce productive resources more efficiently”. That is called progress. First, Let me Implore ALL READERS to pick up a copy of Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. There IS NO greater book written in such PLAIN LANGUAGE that hits the nail on the head of EVERY argument I have ever heard on this blog and all others. My Father gave me a copy when I graduated High School in 1981. (It is also available in an audio version narrated by the late Louis Rukeyser) Second, while tracking down the above title, do pick up Friedrich Hayek’s (Nobel 1974) classic - The Road to Serfdom - a refutation and comparison of Socialism and Capitalism. Third, and last, add Milton Friedmans (Nobel 1976) Capitalism and Freedom - the title says it all. These giants of thought are the best defenders of our Founding Fathers in Modern Times. They destroy, intellectually and by example, ALL the “fallacious” economic thinking from the New Deal to the Obama Deal. Should be required reading for all in every school throughout the land.

By Susan Duffy on 10/17/2008 6:21 pm

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The wonderful thing about America is that we CAN vote for the party/candidate of our own personal choice. Then in four years — vote again. Susan, I’ve never seen name calling and bullying to work as a method to get people who don’t share ones extreme views to give up their own freedom of choice of what they feel is best for the country. Certainly, we can all find and quote literature written that expresses our views. Good for you, all the research that you do that agrees with your own point. This and your life experiences help you to make the best choice for you. God bless America! Whatever political party that woman (and men) here choose to endear; there are very decent people on both sides of the political spectrum and in-between. We should all respect that. A Socialist is a Socialist and not a Democrat. I don’t share the same conspiracy theories that you do. Democrats and Independents may not be as dumb as you think that they are. The freedom to have views of our own does not make us ignorant, it makes us American. Most of us have had our own life experiences and done our own research to bring us to our conclusions. The Democrats that I know are not sitting around looking for government hand-outs. I’m sorry if that isn’t your experience. In my own Independent experience (I have voted both Dem/Rep) my father, my husband, 3 brothers, 2 brother-in-laws, and son-in-law have all served in the military — during times of war and peace. I and my family have been involved in community volunteering time commitments. I have owned a business. My husband and I work very hard – possibly working even more hours than Joe the Plumber. We make good incomes and “pay our taxes”. We have known adapting our skills to the times as I most definitely have had to. We are both college educated. We’ve paid our own ways through college. Seeing your HS grad date, we are not too many years older than you. I do find it offensive that you seem to insist that if I don’t vote Republican this time around, I must be a freeloader and a Socialist. Whoever wins this election is going to have a big challenge ahead of him. In a perfect world, having a mixed house of congress would be ideal and balanced. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be going that way. Whether the president is Dem or Rep, in simple terms it will be amazing if taxes can be cut and not raised while keeping necessities like maintained roads and bridges/ infrastructure, military security, decent education for our children, etc. so that you and I can go about with our own lives as usual. As for negative campaigning — I was leaning more toward McCain, but have come to feel more comfortable about Obama. I don’t think that McCain’s champagne staff is very good. I think that they should research their facts better, and not hype up a lot of hate and anger at Obama or toward people who feel that he may make a difference. Not that Obama is perfect, but there are a lot of the accusations going around out of the McCain staff that are misleading and plain ridiculous — people know it. If this is how McCain’s campaign staff operates, I have to wonder how staff he selects to serve under him in the White House would operate. Who is responsible for this economic mess that we are in now? From the trusted non-partisan info that I’ve seen, both parties can take some part of the blame. It’s time for our leaders to move on and focus on the repair.

By Donna Chee on 10/18/2008 12:11 pm

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I’ve never seen name calling and bullying to work as a method to get people who don’t share ones extreme views to give up their own freedom of choice of what they feel is best for the country A lot of people, including you guys, would do well to remember this. Well put.

By Star Lawrence on 10/18/2008 3:02 pm

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Our American ancestors were deeply committed to living their lives “their way”. That meant making a living anyway they wanted, and keeping the fruits of their labor, to practice their beliefs as they pleased. They wanted government to “stay out of their lives”. Despite what you may think, our “Federal” Government was set up to be primarily an “administrative” body charged with the task to keep the country “safe” and act as a “referee” for when the citizens do not play fair with one another. That’s it! To ensure “all the kiddies played fair” a “rule book” was needed that “all could agree on” that empowered the “referees” to do their job. That is the Constitution. Since our founding, freedom (rights) and economics (wants) have shared the same value in practice and theory. They are intertwined. They “are” the bedrock of any free society. The proposition that “Governments govern best that govern least” (Thomas Paine in Common Sense) was “codified” in the Constitution as a “result of” the Legal, social, and economic oppression that the people experienced under the vagaries of a despotic, paternalistic, “ruling class” in England. My purpose in itemizing the colonists grievances and contrasting them with issues of our present day, was to illuminate the present dangers being “forced on us” by the “elites who know better”. Progressives, like the Democrats and Mr. Obama, are “repeating the mistakes of the past”. They do this through oppression of those they do not agree with and projecting “their envy” on those who have things they do not feel they deserve. Progressives fought to “overturn” the tenants of our founders by attacking the “haves” like Rockerfeller, Carnegie, JP Morgan, with the Revenue Act 1913 (Income Taxes), and to force “their morals” on the rest of us who like a beer with dinner with the Volstead Act 1919 (Alcohol). Ask Joe The Plumber, Jane the eBayer, or Susan (me) the Software Developer, how “patriotic” and “fair” we think “spreading the wealth” means to us for working 12 hour days for “years”. How about the push by Democrats to re-enact the “Fairness Doctrine”, or restrict my right to protect my family and exercise my Second Amendment Rights? Those who forget history ARE doomed to relive it. Freedom is not free.

By Susan Duffy on 10/16/2008 2:57 pm

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Susan Duffy….. I don’t where you came from but I want to thank you for your wonderful post! There are so few of us on this site but we all understand what you are saying. And, I, so agree with you. Please stay around — if you can stand it! Thank you — thank you McCain/Palin

By Lady Gator on 10/16/2008 3:35 pm

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If you can stand it—is right. I second what Lady G said! I am still fuming over Sen Obama’s comment that Bill Ayers does not run my campaign—uh, who said he did? This guy is the straw man builder of all straw men builders! (thought we could use some more metaphors.)

By Star Lawrence on 10/17/2008 1:45 pm