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Question of the Day | 03/02/2009 11:00 pm

Kathleen Sebelius, pro-life and Catholic, will be the new secretary of HHS ...

Do you think the Catholic Church’s position that Catholic legislators have an obligation to be pro-life is reasonable?
President Obama announced Kathleen Sebelius as HHS Secretary

© Getty Images
Joan Ganz Cooney

Joan Ganz Cooney | 03/02/2009 11:00 pm

Joan Ganz Cooney: The Catholic Church Is Out of Touch

I believe the Catholic Church, in which I was raised, is out of touch with not only the times but with human beings. Its preoccupation with sex, choice and birth control not only has driven me away, which is unimportant, but millions of others throughout the world. It has also, with its mercilessly backward position on contraception, aided and abetted population growth in developing and poverty-stricken countries, which has only made people poorer, hungrier and more violent, and has also further endangered other species who share our planet. But then, I’m not keen on organized religion even though I love religious music and many religious ceremonies.

Candice Bergen

Candice Bergen | 03/03/2009 10:40 am

Candice Bergen on the Catholic Church and Its 'Crimes Against Humanity'

I have no idea about the legislatures and no hope of ANYone ever influencing the Catholic Church in a more progressive direction, but the entire entity should be charged with crimes against humanity by urging the world’s poor to overpopulate.

Liz Smith

Liz Smith | 03/03/2009 10:00 am

Liz Smith Is Utterly Dismayed

Look, it hardly matters what I think about the Catholic Church influencing legislation. It was ever thus. They do what they feel is morally right. They exert their power. Voters have to do what they feel is morally right and in the public interest. (This must be supremely difficult for Catholics and fundamentalists.)

Sometimes I think only a handful of us still believe in the separation of Church and State.

I don’t think there is any use in my railing against the Catholic Church. I am pro-choice and I frequently stand here utterly dismayed. 

110 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

DeBúrca obj
The fact is, President Obama, the pro-choice candidate, received the majority of Catholic votes in the last election. So most Catholics vote on more than one issue… whether their Pope likes it or not.
By DeBúrca obj on 03/03/2009 12:53 pm
JeJe De
I have never thought about this much, but I agree with why call yourself a Catholic if you do not agree or support their doctrine?  I am not Catholic but I am amazed at the number of people calling themselves Catholic who obviously use birth control.  If all those were excommunicated, the Catholics would save a fortune on communion wafers.
By JeJe De on 03/03/2009 12:53 pm
Bella Mia

What would you say about someone who called themselves a Catholic but chose to be a slave owner in a country where slavery is still tolerated?  To promote and fight against a critical  tenet of your alleged faith is hypocritical. Sellibus should be excommunicated and be freed to be who she is, and promote whatever she wants, but without hiding behind the Catholic appellate.  She is a very public and official hypocrite.

  Would NOW allow Phyllis Schaffly to join, and then stand quietly and idly by while she advocated against the tenets of the organization?  Not likely. 

By Bella Mia on 03/03/2009 1:03 pm
Bonnie Oliver
Bella Mia -  Well said.
By Bonnie Oliver on 03/03/2009 3:37 pm
E .

"Do you think the Catholic Church’s position that Catholic legislatures have an obligation to be pro-life is reasonable?"

Yes.  It is wholly reasonable as the Catholic Church has always condemned abortion as a grave evil.  Wouldn’t it be odd for any religion to turn a blind eye to acts by member legislators who enact/support laws that subvert its core beliefs?  Religion can not be customized to suit members through cherry picking only those core beliefs which your constituency finds apppealing.

By E . on 03/03/2009 1:16 pm
Rita@ Goldivas
The Catholic Church has not always condemned abortion. I think it’s just been the past 100-200 years.
By Rita@ Goldivas on 03/03/2009 4:30 pm
g c

Carol,

I agree with you.  How many children are abused, neglected or in foster care, if the ones picketing would put their money and time where there mouth is and put their beliefs into action things would be far better for children.

As far as the Catholics go the Pope and bishops etc. don’t believe in birth control either  but I would venture a guess that most of  us on WOW regardless of politics have used or would have used the pill or condoms to prevent pregnancy.

The old Catholic joke around here is "What do you call people who practice natural family planning?  PARENTS.  Now that is the type of birth control that the Pope wants people to practice.

By g c on 03/03/2009 1:17 pm
Bella Mia

PS.  I was confused by the question:  Do you think the Catholic Church’s position that Catholic legislatures have an obligation to be pro-life is reasonable?

If you meant legislators - the politicians - then the question makes more sense. There is no such thing as  Catholic legislatures unless maybe in Italy where an entire legislative body is Catholic.

By Bella Mia on 03/03/2009 1:20 pm
phyllis Doyle Pepe

Despite the lack of scientific or historical evidence, and despite the doubts of biblical scholars, America is so pious that not only do 91% of Christians believe, for instance, in the Virgin Birth, but so do an astonishing 47% of U.S. non-Christians. Religion remains central to American life, and seems to be getting more so, in a way that is true of no other industrialized country, with the possible exception of South Korea. I don’t pretend to know why America is so much more infused with religious faith than the rest of the world. But I do think that while this may bring some kind of spiritual comfort to many, it also means a growing polarization within our society. Some time ago Nicholas Kristof––he of the New York Times who is the writer of endless articles of girls being bought into sexual slavery–––said this:

…I’m troubled by the way the great intellectual traditions of Catholic and Protestant churches alike are withering, leaving the scholarly and religious worlds increasingly antagonistic. I worry partly because of the time I’ve spent with self-satisfied and unquestioning mullahs and imams, for the Islamic world is in crisis today in large part because of a similar drift away from a rich intellectual tradition and toward the mystical. The heart is a wonderful organ, but so is the brain. 

By phyllis Doyle Pepe on 03/03/2009 1:25 pm
Gramma J

My mother was raised a Catholic, and I’ve noticed it seems to be a total indoctrination process that begins at birth and continues throughout childhood and on into adulthood.  She was steeped in it, to the point that she didn’t even understand that Catholic schools are NOT public schools!  She didn’t know she had a parochial education, she thought it was the norm!  She shook herself free of it in her adult life, and today she is a Methodist.  But throughout my childhood, I remember her telling everyone who asked that she was a Catholic, even though she hadn’t set foot in a church in years.  It was just that soaked into her, that it took her entire adult life to stop defining herself that way.  I suspect that if you have not lived it, you can’t understand it.

What I can’t understand are the two biggest welfare suckers in our county, the Catholic families, one with a dozen kids, one with fourteen, who keep on reproducing and holding their hands out for anything, any government or private sector donation or freebie they can get, while they smile their dopey smiles and tell you how what they are doing is "God’s will".  See, that’s MY liberal tax dollars at work, supporting their useless conservative right-wing worn-out butts, because I believe in birth control and abortion rights and I quit having kids when I knew I had all I could support.  But they, sure and smug in how correct they are, look down their noses at all the other welfare recipients who are "cheats" and bemoan how they take away from the ones like them, who are "deserving".  THEY aren’t cheats, they are "saved".  Sure do fit Marjorie’s description of having another one to bump up the welfare payments, don’t they? 

By Gramma J on 03/03/2009 1:26 pm
E .

Gramma J:

"What I can’t understand are the two biggest welfare suckers in our county, the Catholic families, one with a dozen kids, one with fourteen, who keep on reproducing and holding their hands out for anything, any government or private sector donation or freebie they can get, while they smile their dopey smiles and tell you how what they are doing is "God’s will"."

Wow Gramma J - way to keep an eye on them overbreedin’ Catholic welfare suckers!  Do you know the personal information of each and every "welfare sucker" in your county, just the Catholics or … what?!   

By E . on 03/03/2009 2:05 pm
Gramma J

It’s awfully hard to NOT be aware of them.  One is frequently in the paper asking for assistance and the other has a connection to my family.  And yes, I personally know them both and I know that of which I speak.  And you don’t. 

By Gramma J on 03/03/2009 2:55 pm
E .

Gramma J You are correct that I don’t know them.  I do however know that it is the very essence of prejudice to associate the perceived character deficits of any particular person or subgroup of people with an entire organization, race, creed, gender or other group of people.  Your commentary is acidic and repugnant. 

I didn’t ask if you knew them personally but perhaps, since you do have a personal relationship with them, you ought to let them know just what you think of them and the rest of their sort.  In fact you might consider going public with your views.  Perhaps write an article and submit it to the local newspaper for publication.  Certainly your community will be very interested in your views.

By E . on 03/03/2009 3:26 pm
phyllis Doyle Pepe
Oh, knock it off. Quit being so snide. Gramma was just giving us her take on all this from a personal perspective. There have been others who celebrate their experiences with large families who according to them have been harmoniously happy and don’t have to go on the dole. For each, there is a story, for each there is a perspective.
By phyllis Doyle Pepe on 03/03/2009 4:14 pm
E .

True Phyllis - but some perspectives are quite warped and rooted in hate.  There is nothing wrong with me pointing that out acidic bigotry particularly when I find it offensive.  If I have contempt for hateful comments I have every right to comment without being told to knock it off or called snide. 

The following words can not be denied as hateful and played down to merely another perspective:   "What I can’t understand are the two biggest welfare suckers in our county, the Catholic families, one with a dozen kids, one with fourteen, who keep on reproducing and holding their hands out for anything, any government or private sector donation or freebie they can get, while they smile their dopey smiles and tell you how what they are doing is "God’s will"."

By E . on 03/04/2009 12:34 am