Question of the Day | 12/14/2008 11:00 pm

Pearls of wisdom: What is the most valuable lesson you've learned from working with other women?

Liz Smith | 12/14/2008 11:00 pm

Liz Smith: Why Women Can 'Get Down' to Business

Women are more generous and considerate and you can really "get down" and get a lot accomplished. You aren’t forever dancing around the question of how they are relating to you. It kind of clears the decks for action when it comes to getting things done. But I have had very satisfactory experiences working with men and mostly that has been my business experience. The first woman I really worked for was Helen Gurley Brown at Cosmopolitan in 1965 and that was a fabulous and funny experience that lasted for almost a dozen years.

Click here on this text to read my New York Post column.

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Joan Ganz Cooney | 12/15/2008 12:00 am

Joan Ganz Cooney: But Can They Laugh?

Many years ago, when women bosses in television were unusual but I was one of them nonetheless, a male producer said to me, "I don’t look upon you as a man or a woman but rather whether you’re a good or bad executive." That’s pretty much how I feel about working with women. Are they able? Are they quick? Can they get it done? And very important with men and women I work with: Do they have a sense of humor?

3 Comments

Sheila Nevins | 12/18/2008 6:00 am

Sheila Nevins: Women, Know Your Value

Women tend to devalue themselves, even the new generation. And you often have to push them to show them how good they are.

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76 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

It may be a good thing after all that you didn’t ask to have him fired. Who knows what his reaction to that might have been? I

By irish bell on 12/17/2008 12:23 pm

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I have a lot of fun at work, and some of my coworkers have become some of my best friends, but I quickly learned a valuable lesson (especially when it comes to the women…), If you wanna be heard, speak up! Or they’ll run you over… This is a valuble lesson in every part of life!

By Ine Drage on 12/16/2008 1:53 pm

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The incredible determination women can muster when they need it. Regardless of their perceived power, education, experience, or heritage, women need other women. Women - most with multiple responsibilities - are able to call up a power that I have never doubted. Being involved with such movements or efforts, learning about women’s achievements, or watching women’s actions at such times has always amazed me. I don’t know where we “get” it.

By C jay on 12/18/2008 10:46 am

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Garden Goddess … This is one of the best subjects I’ve encountered here. And once I bravely opened the door with my own strong feelings, it was if a tidal wave of others feel free to agree. And you have covered my own feelings so well . . . and again - even last night - I had another foray into the changing fold of a board whose components have changed rapidly from men to women. I always watch closely. Professionalism for the most part is out the door except when I or the 2 men speak — the women honestly embarrass me. It isn’t that they are not intelligent and have background, but they cannot seem to resolve issues, letting them hang —- as they somehow want to know that their personal lives are alive and well. What? We have an audience — and you can imagine what is thought! So whatever I didn’t say — you did and we are exactly on the same wave length, Garden Goddess. I think we would get on well together.

By joan larsen on 12/19/2008 11:26 am

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Thank you, Joan. Most especially for opening up this subject with your honesty. I can’t say how much I would enjoy working with a woman such as you. On those few occasions when that has been my opportunity, it was delightful and extremely fulfilling because we could accomplish at such a high level. When women become secure in their knowledge of their own worth - intellectually, cooperatively, in areas other than domestic or sexual - we will be able to utilize a power so deep and colored with collective wisdom that real change can be effected - for ourselves and for the world. We have to move past our limbic brains, just as we ask that men do. It’s as basic as that and lies within the provenance of our pre-frontal cortices. And yes, it is truly refreshing to discuss something so relevant and honest on this forum - and not the latest gossip about would-be celebrities (who cares?).

By Garden Goddess on 12/19/2008 12:18 pm

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Garden Goddess … please, please — stick with this site. Your writing, your way of thinking, in ways reflects mine so closely that it is if we had a mirror here. I too would love to be working with you as - like you - I don’t often run into another with the inate self-confidence and assurance to attain whatever heights we want. Too few of us believe in ourselves, research before we speak with authority and know that then we are respected as people - not women. On this site, I have pleaded over and over that is not “the best woman” who should get a position, but the best qualified PERSON - all gender aside - that should be promoted. Self assurance, “smarts”, and an ability to work well with others, and a person that realizes that praise works far better than threats in building another. As you can see, like you, I could write a book I think — as I have watched, pondered, and have tried out what I believe will foster self-worth in others. All you have to do is see the eyes gleam - and the smile - and the knowing that someone believes in them and CARES. And then perhaps they will learn that they don’t have to do petty, mean things to be noticed at all. Enough. I will look for you eagerly on the site. You are one in a million I believe.

By joan larsen on 12/19/2008 12:41 pm

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Yes, we share identical philosophies. I have called myself a cheerleader in the management roles I have assumed, because it was my great joy to help people attain their potential and reap the rewards of self-respect and confidence. Like you, I believe gender is another of those issues to leave at home, which has made me quite unpopular with feminists but it is not a strong position to lean on gender, sexual orientation or other of a number of issues that are just social issues and do not level the playing field in terms of real ability and competence. One of my instructors (in management) once said, “Catch them doing something good.” By that he meant the praise to which you allude - as averse to the constant searching for errors, which we all make and which only breeds a negative atmosphere in which real accomplishment is curtailed and inhibited. After a period of adjustment to the difference in my style, my employees always loved working for me. But inevitably, someone with green eyes would grow jealous, seeing this as a power base (because of her insecurities - and it was almost always a she), and then the treachery began and the team fell apart. Only after the damage was done were the participants able to see what had happened and express regret. By then, I was long gone. I simply will not stay in such an environment or subject myself to such ugly, hurtful, time-wasting actions. Yeah, I’ve been told I’m one in a million. Every time I take another of those many tests (like Meyers-Briggs and the like) I always end up in a teeny percentage bracket. Oh well… It ain’t easy to walk in these shoes, but it is surely very rewarding personally. And I’d say it takes one to know one. As for the site, I find it mostly boring and trite. You have been a delicious exception as has this question, though you have taken it somewhere other than the original intent I believe. What have I learned from working with women? NOT to work with women if I can avoid it. Sad. Thank you for your wonderful contributions to this site. And I’m very glad to have “met” you. ~Carol

By Garden Goddess on 12/19/2008 2:57 pm

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Carol — as I am in an ice storm and stranded I can write today - - and there are things I would like to add about the site — but not on a public forum. You understand. I DO understand your thinking . . . and this is why I attempt to take a question and turn it on its heel if the spirit moves me. This came up and I am most vehement on this topic - it is my favorite - or almost. . and I can hold my own as you can as we have been there, done that, and can prove it. It is not just talk to us — we see why a few women succeed and most others fail - or perhaps a better term is just sit on a job and think there is no UP there at all. The world is full of those women. I am able to help privately on a personal basis — or I carefully try. If I don’t try on people that have high potential, I find I cannot live with myself. . but of course, this is done nicely and carefully with lots of praise for their best qualities woven in. So yes, I do turn things around here - as I do in my real life - picking and choosing. But in looking backward on this site, I have found some personal positives. An occasional question asked that makes me look into myself as I had not before. I can write out my own thoughts, pieces of my life that I had not shared before and feel safe in sharing with those I know well who I still don’t trust - women - who might repeat them to others. I find that I know myself better in so doing. Today I wrote about New Years Eve — and on the spur of the moment, sent it to my daughter. She had no idea of the depth of the romantic life we lead as she has lived far away for so long … but I think it might be helpful to know that love - physical love in a marriage that is good - lasts forever. It is eyeopening to the young — but gives them hope I would think. Do you have a web site or sites you write for that you would recommend - as I have never done this before? And as you can see, today I could go on and on as I am stuck. But to meld with another as we have is such a pleasure. I KNOW we would work together well and certainly be able to not mince words, talking on the same wave length and understanding without too much description. It has made my day - so thanks! Joan

By joan larsen on 12/19/2008 3:39 pm

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And you have made mine, Joan. I have a blog, but seldom write in it: http://www.blogger.com/profile/03607248144393491145. I do love to write and have begun a book. The blog will direct you to an e-mail address. I invite you.

By Garden Goddess on 12/19/2008 4:51 pm

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The most valuable lesson I’ve learned from working with other women is not to do it again. It’s better to have some men or at least one man there—or else it turns into one big petty cat fight. This may be a sorry thing to say. But I have found it to be true.

By Char Star on 12/19/2008 9:47 pm

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There are a at least three ways, I believe, in which this needs to be answered, or addressed. First, too many women have self esteem issues, which tends to create a mix bag of actions and reactions from them (us). This type of woman tends to be a bit more wishy-washy, afraid of offending or alienating others especially other women. Second, some women are trying so hard to make it, or fit in, they over compensate. Which makes them more overbearing and seemingly heartless. It is the impression of this type woman that one must be as a man, or act as a man, in order to lead others. Or, to become successful. Lastly, there are those women who have found a healthy balance and are able to relate well with others. Also, with an ability to be empathic, considerate and strong without feeling threatened, or threatening. So… The short of it is, in my opinion; Women who have attained a good degree of “self-actualization” according to the Mazlow Hierarchy as an example, are more able to relax and appreciate the gifts, intelligence, and abilities of those whom they lead. I’ll just leave it there. Thanks.

By Ro H on 12/20/2008 6:36 am

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Because my own experience has been so different from what is being reported here, I’m just amazed at the majority vote by women against working with women. Almost all my supervisors have been women -accomplished, ground-breaking women- and to a person they were willing mentors. Yes, we’ve definitely had our differences (strong personalities all around), but I’d have to rate them as capable, almost always fair, and completely visionary. On the other hand, I have served on boards and committees chaired and populated by men (in academia) who were incompetent, egotistical, and demeaning towards their women counterparts. So maybe the academic world is not reflective of society as a whole, or maybe I’ve just been lucky, but I can’t join the chorus of those who say “don’t ever work with another woman.”

By Maurine H on 12/20/2008 9:19 pm

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A highlight of my teaching career was working in a program for pregnant teens for many years. The seven staff members were all females and we all got along amazingly, surprisingly well in the workplace and off. I think two of the reasons it worked was that we all had a common goal to improve the lives of our girls and none of us let our own egos get in the way. It was always a collaborative effort. I appreciate and miss what we women had and did.

By Annymin Martin on 12/21/2008 12:53 am

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You can’t flirt to get what you want done. Women are so much more critical about things and are less complimentary in work situations. There is much jealousy, and gossiping in the work environment.

By Helise Flickstein on 12/21/2008 9:09 am

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I’ve worked with all men, and I’ve worked with all women. Please. I’d much rather work with all men. And really?? The women who ‘flirted’ their way thru every meeting, indeed, every day, are degrading to those of us who work for a living.

By j j on 12/21/2008 10:39 am