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Question of the Day | 10/30/2009 4:00 am

David Letterman vs. John Edwards: When someone comes clean about their wrongdoing, are you more willing to forgive them?

When someone comes clean about their wrongdoing (Don Imus, David Letterman), are you more willing to forgive them than when someone lies about their wrongdoing (Martha Stewart, John Edwards)? Candice Bergen, Mary Wells, Liz Smith and Joan Ganz Cooney start the conversation …
© CBS/ AP
Liz Smith

Liz Smith | 10/30/2009 12:00 am

Liz Smith 'Despises' John Edwards, 'Loves' Martha Stewart

Hey, has John Edwards "come clean" – he just keeps making matters worse. I despise this guy; how dare he try to be president with his private behavior. He could have ruined the Democratic Party. But I thought Imus was/is wonderful the way he tried to actually make amends, going to see the young women he had insulted and raising money for them. I am withholding a result on David Letterman but I guess if all his co-workers can forgive him and his wife can forgive him, and CBS can forgive him because he is one of their stars, then he should live and be well. I love Martha Stewart and I thought she really paid her debt to society; I thought the circumstances of her indictment for insider trading were suspicious at best. It all depends on how the indicted behave. She was a champ and emerged from prison to overcome all obstacles. 
Mary Wells

Mary Wells | 10/30/2009 12:00 am

Mary Wells Is Warming Up to Don Imus and David Letterman

Oh my, yes. Don Imus handled himself well. And David Letterman did too. I am not great fans of either but I feel more warmth toward them now than before. Don’t you think that John Edwards has been in a thick mental and emotional fog or on daytime sleeping pills or came from Mars?  
Joan Ganz Cooney

Joan Ganz Cooney | 10/30/2009 12:00 am

Joan Ganz Cooney: If Bill Would Have Come Clean in the Beginning

I would hardly compare Martha Stewart to John Edwards. Martha’s small problem was greatly compounded by her prominence. Had she been an unknown, she would almost certainly not been sent to jail. I just felt sorry for her. John Edwards is a liar and a cad and recklessly put his political party and country at risk. Letterman did the right thing, coming clean, when threatened with blackmail but his behavior with women who work for him is hardly admirable. I think lying about sex is an automatic response when one is caught so I never judged Clinton harshly, although I would have preferred that he come clean and resign. We would have had Al Gore then as president and probably avoided the Bush years altogether.
Candice Bergen

Candice Bergen | 10/30/2009 12:00 am

Candice Bergen on How the Sex Scandal Turned Letterman Into a 'Mensch'

The wrongdoing thing is interesting because it can diminish people in an instant. Clinton crumbled. Edwards — roadkill. Letterman, on the other hand, has so far emerged greatly enhanced. We happened to be watching the night he made his confession and it was masterful. Spellbinding. He handled it brilliantly. Honest, intelligent, articulate, humble.

Speed is also a factor. How quickly and decisively someone responds determines the reaction. Letterman emerged as more humane, more manly, more of a mensch than before.

40 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Bonnie O

Isn’t the word "forgive"  a little too strong?  For celebrities of whom we have no personal contact, maybe a softer expression "to set aside their bad behavior" would be more appropriate.  After all, whatever their wrongdoing, if it did not affect us personally, then we do not need to forgive in order to once again become a fan;  we only need to know that a person has accepted that their actions were inappropriate.

I think, for the most part, that Americans are more than willing to allow a celebrity to declare their mea culpa and then put the episode aside.  Of course, if that celebrity should be caught again in a similar jam, then only the truly devoted fan will remain to watch the next performance.

As for John Edwards, he is a Class A rat and his actions were not acceptable.  He put the country at risk.  There is no forgiveness or setting-aside for the likes of him.

 

By Bonnie O on 10/30/2009 5:34 am
Baby  Snooks

Clinton, Edwards, Letterman. There’s a difference? They got caught and then attempted to worm their way out of it.   Good word for them. Worm.  Mensch is not a good word.  Candice, really.  Mensch?

And Liz, loving someone does not excuse their lying. And Martha Stewart did more than lie. She conspired.  All for a paltry, really, amount of money. I think it was more a matter of her outrage that anyone would question her about anything. I love Martha Stewart as well. But I would never turn my back to her. Especially in the kitchen. Not after that "how to commit mass murder on a head of lettuce" performance on national television.  And SHE probably has slapped an employee in the face with a lettuce leaf.  Screaming "no more wilting lettuce leaves."

 

By Baby Snooks on 10/30/2009 5:50 am
P Rust
Because I am not personally acquainted with them, I can’t really forgive them.  I think it’s more of an indifference toward them.  If I enjoyed their entertainment, politics etc. before, I may or may not still enjoy them, but there will always be a sticky film that covers what they do and I probably won’t want to touch it.
By P Rust on 10/30/2009 6:47 am
Liz Smith
Well, of course what we are quibbling about here is the meaning of the word "forgive" ... those of you who say the public has little right or meaning in "forgiving" the famous are correct. Does it matter to these challenged VIPs whether we "FORGIVE" them or not. Should we leave forgiveness up to the Almighty. I suppose that's a point. But public waves of feeling exist and public figures feel the pain or the empathy. I didn't say I loved Martha Stewart and so, "forgave" her. I just felt,like Joan, she was victimized to some extent by being who she is, also by being a dynamic effective woman who doesn't suffer fools gladly. So she was a tabloid natural to be "villainized." OK..."they" don't care whether or not we unwashed "forgive" them...Hmm, I'll bet they do or else there wouldn't be public relations people, ad campaigns, public gestures of philanthrophy, expression of regret and acting effectively with good behavior (like Imus did!) Almost everyone wants love & approval. AND MANY OF THE FAMOUS desperately depend on the public's approval. LIZSMITH t \\\
By Liz Smith on 10/30/2009 7:01 am
Baby  Snooks

Don’t you think Martha Stewart victimized herself in a way? People who "do well by the public" should hold themselves to a higher standard. The people who keep them "rolling in the dough" so to speak will. 

The one thing I didn’t like was what I didn’t like about the Helmsley matter. There is a different standard applied to women.  Men are shrewd. Women are just bitches. If there had been a "Mr. Stewart" I have to wonder if the charges against him would have been dropped the way they were against Harry Helmsley.  As if it were her accountants, not his, who couldn’t keep things straight on the books. As if it were her secretaries, not his, who couldn’t keep things straight on the books. 

I also wonder why they even bother to have trials in Manhattan. Everyone seems to be indicted, tried, convicted and sentenced to public execution by the tabloids. 

By Baby Snooks on 10/30/2009 7:42 am
Bonnie O

Thank you Liz.  From the perspective of the celebrity whose living depends upon public participation and approval, I see your point of view. Again, from the celeb perspective, perhaps they really do need to hear the words we forgive you

By Bonnie O on 10/30/2009 2:35 pm
Lee Harrison

Liz,

I totally agree with you about Martha.  She was convicted and sent to prison for lying about a crime she was never charged with!

By Lee Harrison on 10/30/2009 6:21 pm
Mary Utrup
In the case of John Edwards I find his behavior slightly more despicable than Letterman’s. Mr. Edwards kept on denying that there was any possibility he was the father of that baby. He knew the truth, he had to. So to keep on keeping on with a lie is just plain arrogant and stupid. Letterman, on the other hand, was obviously NEVER gonna tell anybody anything. He had to be backed into a solid corner before he was going to"come clean". Both of them have shown that they have no real honor when it comes to long term commitments in marriage. My heart goes out to both wives in this and every other situation like this one.
By Mary Utrup on 10/30/2009 7:03 am
Chris Glass`
I give those that admitted their affairs credit for being honest. Does anyone really think that because it was openly admitted it hurt the wives less? These are all men in power using their position to get what they want from women. I’d bet some of the women went along because they knew they couldn’t get a comparable job for the pay elsewhere.
By Chris Glass` on 10/30/2009 7:08 am
Sue Fawcett

I think it’s obvious that the nature of the transgression(s) and the degree of regret dictates the extent to which the celebrity or public figure is forgiven.  John Edwards is a truly reprehensible character (and hardly seems sincere in regard to his continuing apologies) while David Letterman appears humanly flawed.  So far, we haven’t seen any of Letterman’s female staff claim victimization by him, so it seems easier to forgive his behavior. Many people think Martha Stewart was an object of a governmental vendetta and a goal of discrediting her as undesirable (aren’t most strong, independent, successful, self-made women victimized in the U.S.?) I think the media plays a too-prominent role in influencing the public’s judgement of public figures and celebrities, essentially shaping public opinion in many instances.  Thus, a number of factors influence whether or not I forgive a public figure who has admitted to committing transgression(s).  Some merit forgiveness, others simply don’t.

By Sue Fawcett on 10/30/2009 8:20 am
L. C.

Honesty is the best policy; specifically being honest with the party(ties) ones negative actions affect.

If it’s a public official instead of hiding ones failings/mistakes own up to them; especially if caught. In-order, to avoid having to do so behave and respect yourself, respect your family, friends and constituents.

Past relationships before serving in public office and before marriage is not any-ones business. As long as it did not involve criminal activity especially activity that involved children. Past sexual liaisons with straight or gay adults is ones private business. I would suggest ending all hypocrisy and projecting a holier than thou image if you know your closets are full of skeletons .

I’ve always said that I would scream from the roof tops yes I did this or that long before the press attacks. If you cringe, plead and cower they delight in torturing you. If you boldly proclaim, it loses its power.

Example: Yes I scr- -ed __________. What about it? Who are these folk (press) anyway. I’d simply tell them to pucker up and - -ss my - - -.

By L. C. on 10/30/2009 8:40 am
Andy C

The regreat that these men feel are at getting caught.  The degree of difference is that John Edwards was trying to be president (was he trying to be President Clinton?) and Bill Clinton was president — certainly a far greater harm was done by them to more people then by a television celebrity.  John Edwards was busily humiliating his wife while she was battling cancer — a special ring of hell for him; so no, I could never forgive him.  The rest of them?  I can forgive them, but can their spouses? 

Dave Letterman — it seems that would be a perc for the job — how very sad.  I thought the days of the casting couch were over; guess not.  For me, I just don’t know how I would feel or what I would do. 

A little nagging thought though, these men seem to want to be caught.  Even with all of their achievements they needed to let you know that they still had "it".  Otherwise, how could they possibly think, with the media and their digging, digging, digging, that they wouldn’t be?  It does seem that the days of "wink, wink boys will be boys" are over for  men.

By Andy C on 10/30/2009 8:42 am
Susan Crawford

I think there is a world of difference between Letterman and John Edwards. Letterman is an entertainer, NOT a political powerhouse who aspired to become a candidate for the most powerful office in the world. Edwards managed to convince his desperately ill wife to cover up for him, and in so doing, he betrayed his party and the American public. Letterman’s apology was - it seemed to me - sincere. He admitted he was a bonehead, made a terrible mistake, and would have a long hard road ahead to mend things with his family. I have yet to hear anything approaching that kind of openness from Edwards. Or, frankly, from Clinton.

I suspect that the best way for folks in public life who fail in a spectacular and highly publicized manner is to admit it quickly, apologize sincerely, and instead of groveling for forgiveness from us, put their effort into restoring some kind of trust within their family. Pay your dues, keep your nose clean in the future, and try to do some good in the world - those would be bits of advice that in my book would trump public "forgiveness" any day.

By Susan Crawford on 10/30/2009 8:54 am
Eileen Alannah
I remember a quote from the writer Gordon Lish about writing. He said something to the effect that when you convict yourself, the paradox is that you somehow make yourself "angelic."  That does seem to have a lot of truth to it. 
By Eileen Alannah on 10/30/2009 8:56 am
Chips AHoey

Forgive, huh? The court of public opinion is getting out of hand - it’s not up to us to forgive, it’s up to their spouse

If their transgressions are somehow illegal (prostitution, underage or otherwise) or professionally unethical (that is, on company time) then the public (or the employer) has a right to forgive (or not to), but really, we need to just stop caring who is zooming who - it’s none of our collective business

By Chips AHoey on 10/30/2009 9:15 am