Actually, margo… i think you’re off on the "legal precendent."

the last thing i read on the subject states that in most states, engagement rings are part of a "conditional contract"… the condition being that you actually get married.

legally, the ring belongs to him upon break up (usually).  it actually really never was yours… until you get married.

and besides… don’t be a crazy, petty bitch about it.  just give him the ring back. it’s his mom’s, for pete’s sake.

and yes… all the women  on here saying "i’d keep the ring because he was a jerk" = petty and vidictive.

plus, they’re just perpetuating the stereotype that all women want is the expensive ring anyway, because they are greedy and manipulative by nature.

don’t be like that.

Now I know we already established that LW1 was sent to Dear Prudence as well, but LW2 was in the Advice Goddess Column this week as well!

"My fiance broke off our engagement. The ring was his mother’s. She’s left messages, asking to talk — probably about the ring, which my ex accused me of "hijacking." That bothers me, as does knowing the ring was never really mine. Friends are telling me to keep it" 

How weird! 

Good! It wasn’t my imagination, I DID read that first letter somewhere else. I read Prudence, Margo, Abby, and Amy Alcon in a California on-line paper.

Alice Bengel,

 You are wrong. Prudence and Margo are two very different people. If they were the same then Margo would have known it was the same letter. Margo used to write the Prudence column, but she moved on.

A family heirloom *before* marriage- I think it should be given back, despite the provacation.  I grant you that the bride appears to have had a narrow escape from marriage to a jerk.  Take the higher road, and give it back to his mother. After marriage?  No, keep it, as long as it wasn’t one of the those immediate annulment affairs. 

When we married in 1989, we were given my husband’s grand-parents’ wedding china as a wedding gift.  We have two daughters, and while we are still technically married, he moved out two years ago after eighteen  and a half years of marriage, and is still living with his parents at age 52.  Much to my astonishment, he told me that his family thought I had too many family things, and he wanted the wedding china back.   (He’s a hoarder, and I tremble at the fate of china amongst all the boxes of recycling, wire, 25 year old computer stuff, and blue jean pants legs, he has shoved places.)

I disagreed- the three family things will go to our daughters: wedding china, armoire, and old & damaged chest of drawers.  If I haven’t earned the right to keep family gifts after 2 years of first dating and then 20 years of marriage, too bad!  His parents have a total of 4 grand-children.  I don’t see a problem with the girls getting these few things.

Cheers,

Constance

Re the Dear Prudence/ Dear Margo controversy.    Margo wrote as Dear Prudence on Slate for a long time…maybe she is still doing it.     Full disclosure is a good idea but not mandatory.   I have seen her column as Dear Margo in the Cape Cod Times and I’m thinking *Go Margo…get syndicated*. 

Re #1… Duh…your notebook is missing…he found it… come clean along the lines of Margo’s advice.  Skip the details.   Your guy is no virgin either I’m sure.   In this day and age I find it weird that men expect women to be without experience after the age of 20 or so.  

After I typed this, I just had a thought.  I believe it was Ann Landers who came up with the perfect response to a question that was clearly none of the questioner’s business (and I classify prior love affairs in this category) which is *Why do you ask?*  Unless we fall in love in 5th grade marry him and live happily ever after , we all have a *past*.    Come to think of it…even if I had married my 5th grade love he would always wonder about who I loved in 1st grade! 

LW#2 and the Ring question.  If you decide to keep the ring do so only after consulting an attorney who practices law in your jurisdiction.  Otherwise, you could be subject to criminal prosecution if you do not return it.    I’m guessing this is a ring of significant value (would you REALLY be pissed off about returning a diamond chip set in 10K gold?)   Be a classy person and return it.     Move on to your next mark. And consider that maybe he wasn’t ready to commit to a woman who values a ring more than she does her dignity. 

Re: Trying but Scorned…someone missed the mark on this one. A few states still allow the aggrieved woman to keep the ring if the man breaks the engagement, but that is rapidly changing (all states require her to return the ring if she breaks the engagement). Depending on what state you live in, it is now legal precident for the ring to be returned in the event that an engagement is broken. It has been held that an engagement ring is a gift in anticipation of marriage and if the marriage does not take place, there is no "gift" and the ring must be returned to the purchaser. If she does not return the ring, heirloom or not, she may find herself being sued for either the ring or its value.

Trying should hold her head up, return the ring and be done with this man and his family. She can then move on without the constant reminder.

I was engaged to a guy who wanted to give me a ring.  I don’t care for diamonds, & convinced him to have a new furnace installed in my house instead.  My house is old, the wiring was inadequate.  I went out of town to visit my brother, & came home to new wiring as well as a furnace.  When I decided I could no longer tolerate his drinking, & kicked his whiskey-soaked butt to the curb, I got to keep my engagement present!