Dear Margo | 06/11/2009 11:00 pm

Dear Margo: Men in the Clink and the Women Who Love Them ... Next on 'Jerry Springer'

A woman’s cousin secretly dates a convicted drug dealer and gang member. Is it wrong for her to get involved? Margo Howard’s bright advice

By Margo Howard

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Men in the Clink and the Women Who Love Them … Next on "Jerry Springer"

Dear Margo: I am a 33-year-old woman. For the past nine months, my 20-year-old cousin "Amy" has secretly been dating a 29-year-old known drug dealer and gang member. They were only together for two months before he landed in the county jail for cocaine possession and running from the cops, which is where he sits today. He has served at least one other prison term. It is completely out of character for Amy to date this type of guy, which explains why she keeps him a secret from the family. She’s begun confessing bits and pieces to my sister, "Megan," and me, and what she is saying is not good. Megan and I see obvious holes in his claims about why he’s in jail and why his court-appointed lawyer quit. His family will do nothing to help him, so he asked Amy to hire a lawyer for him! Luckily, due to her lack of credit, no bank has agreed to give her a loan. Megan obtained a copy of his criminal record that dates back to high school and includes an assault on a public servant. Now we are seriously considering confronting Amy with his record. I am willing to risk her anger if it means she might wake up and get away from this creep. So my question to you is: Should we confront her or step back and let her learn from her own mistake? — Torn in Texas

Dear Torn: You know, I never got why women choose to annex themselves to criminals, especially ones that are in the can. I doubt very much that showing "Amy" pictures of this man with his hands around someone’s neck would even change her mind. She cannot be blind to the circumstances surrounding this unfortunate, so confront her if you like, but don’t expect much. With luck, she will outgrow her save-a-felon phase. — Margo, gloomily

What Is Wrong with This Picture?

Dear Margo: I recently met a wonderful man online. He’s kind, smart, funny, financially responsible, empathetic, a good listener … all the things a woman could ask for. As the saying goes, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Well, he told me on our first date that he is a Mormon (converted as an adult), and that he believes in remaining chaste until marriage. He also said he’s not looking to get married anytime soon. He’s been married twice, had a child with wife No. 1, and No. 2 died a while ago. We’ve gone out a couple of times since, and I am starting to have feelings for him. He’s beginning to seem like a good emotional fit for me. We are both in our 40s, and I don’t want to wait two or three years to see where this goes. I respect his values, but can’t imagine waiting until we marry to have sex. What’s the best way to talk to him about this? — Rocky

Dear Rock: In English. This man may be all the things a woman could ask for — except two: He doesn’t want to get married, and he doesn’t want to have sex. He has been upfront about these subjects, so if you seriously do not want to hang around taking his emotional temperature, tell him these two announcements are deal-breakers for you. I am not in favor of being at the mercy of anyone who makes declarations and leaves no room for compromise. Granted, I am no theologian, but I would guess that "no sex till marriage" is meant for those who are approaching marriage for the first time. And do parse this sentence: "He also said that he’s not looking to get married anytime soon." — Margo, undeniably
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Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers’ daughter. All letters must be sent via e-mail to dearmargo@creators.com. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered. To read more about Margo Howard, click here.

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112 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

I’m no theologian either, but I do know that for most religions, no sex unless married is NOT limited to just the first time (I also know that is easier said than done, but that’s a different matter). Otherwise, I think your advice is pretty much spot on, because one of two things are happening here. One possibility is that he’s using this religious law as a shield from getting involved with anybody else. Obviously, that’s nothing she needs to get emotionally involved in. The other possibility is that he is truly that committed to his religion, in which case she is all wrong for him. If she can’t respect the no sex, then she’s not going to be able to handle any of the other elements of living a religious life.

By Rebecca Godina on 06/11/2009 11:28 pm

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I agree. Most religions "no sex outside of marriage" means just that. What people choose to do it something else- and actually I have no need to judge anyone- but religiously speaking, that’s what it is.

By Sandy B on 06/12/2009 12:36 am

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Only one problem with this argument— if he was following the religion completely, he wouldn’t have gotten divorced from his first wife to begin with.

By Kerriann Evans on 06/12/2009 9:13 pm

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you are so correct. usually if they have a no sex before marriage rule in their religion, they also have a no divorce rule also. mormons for sure. but from what a mormon friend told me those are really just guidelines and you can follow them as you please NOW. i’m sure though that it didn’t start out that way.

By Nancy Pea on 06/13/2009 12:23 am

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Mormons can divorce. If it was only a civil marriage a civil divorce. If they were temple sealed they need the church to "unseal" them.

I don’t know any Christian faiths that allow sex before marriage- and I know Judaism and Islam don’t. And most of those can get divorced-big exception Catholics who need an annulment.

By Sandy B on 06/13/2009 6:56 am

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yeah, i was talking about the sealed kind thru the church. i heard that even if somebody is widowed in the mormon faith they are sealed til they die to the partner that preceded them in death. i don’t know if that is true or not. also supposedly no smoking or caffiene. i can go along with the no smoking. but i need my chocolate. lol!!!

By Nancy Pea on 06/13/2009 5:11 pm

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Not necessarily true. As others have already pointed out, he could’ve gotten divorced before he converted. Or maybe his first wife wasn’t Mormon, and she instigated the divorce.

Also, although divorce is definitely discouraged in the Mormon community (particularly when any children are involved), it does happen, even among devout Mormons. And Mormons who divorce can remarry—the Mormon rules about divorce and remarriage are different from the Catholic ones, though some people get them confused.

It’s certainly something Rocky and the guy should discuss, if they’re going to build a future together, but just because the guy got divorced previously doesn’t mean he doesn’t follow his religion completely.

By Lori Silfen on 06/15/2009 11:26 am

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During the years that I was employed in a correctional facility, I watched many, many women walk into the institution’s visiting room in order to spend two or three hours talking to their man. First, I would like to point out that, in the traditionally used sense of the phrase, your cousin is ‘dating’ no one. They don’t go to a movie, have dinner. However, that’s not the real point I wanted to make. Admittedly, my observations were vicarious , but I did, over the years, form opinions. I think there is a distinct possibility that women who have relationships with men who are in no position at present, and may not be in a position for several years, to be with them ‘on the street’ are reacting to trauma in their own lives. These women want a man in their lives, but they don’t want a man IN their lives. They want to be able to say they have a boyfriend, but do not want him actually living with them, being involved in their day to day lives. Many of the women wil admit to being abused and traumatized by men in previous relationships. What do the men get out of it? Your answered that yourself They get a woman who is willing to pay their bills, write them sexy letters and come see them every month or so. One thing that might get through to your cousin is the realization that most of these men don’t just have one woman. Most of them have several, one to pay lawyer fees, one to buy birthday presents for his children—by other women—, one to send money in so he can buy items at the prison commissary, junk food, stamps to write other women, cigarettes. Your cousin is getting something out of this relationship, but hopefully, she will wake up at some point and get the counseling she needs in order select a more suitable mate. I just hope she realizes it before this joker has gotten into her pocket book and bleeds her dry.

By Sally K on 06/11/2009 11:43 pm

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Sally that was fascinating - certainly bringing me new information.

By Margo Howard on 06/12/2009 7:46 am

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Thanks. I’ve enjoyed your column quite a bit since you began posting here, and I’m glad i could provide something interesting to you. I have to say it was a fascinating environment in which to work. I guarantee you that, while there, I learned things that I never would have even known I didn’t know. Whether I needed to know them would or not will have to be a question I answer for myself later on down the road.

By Sally K on 06/12/2009 6:17 pm

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what about those that help the prisoners escape and then live with them as outlaws for the rest of their lives or marry them for congigal (sp? my spell checker won’t work on wow) visits? that certainly would open up a new can of worms wouldn’t it?

By Nancy Pea on 06/13/2009 5:15 pm

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Well, I don’t want to say that people can’t make changes in their lives, because that is , absolutely, not what I believe. I believe people can, in the basest of circumstances, look up , decide enough is enough and completely turn their lives around. I’m not going to say, either, that people can’t find love within a correctional setting, because I’ve seen that take place too. But, and this is the point I want to make: A man who lives ‘on the street’ has a job, a mother, kids from a previous relationship, all claiming his time and attention. An incarcerated man has nothing but time, time, time. Plus, criminals have , almost, a primal sense of who in any given room is weak and/or vulnerable. Put this type of person next to a woman who has been abused and traumatized in her earlier years, and he’s got a prime candidate for exploitation. He will write wonderful letters that spin lovely stories about how, once he is free, he will devote his every breath to making her happy. And, the truth is, that once he’s free, he’ll have the same claims on his time as any other person. Plus, if he wasn’t being sincere, and I’m sorry, but most of them aren’t even remotely sincere, the woman will be lucky, LUCKY, if all he takes from her is her car, her tv, her cell phone, her dvd and her credit rating.

As far as a woman who would help some joker escape, on some level, she is either duped or possesses criminal tendencies, herself, that she has never had the opportunity to utilize. Leave your family, your life and spend the rest of your life on the run? With a person you have never known when he wasn’t incarcerated and so, you have no earthly idea what he’s like when he is not surrounded by guards and bars? You talk about a gamble. Las Vegas has nothing to beat those odds.

If any person is not secure in his/her own ethics and principles, a correctional facility is, absolutely, not a place that person wants to be. Every single day of your life you’re tested, and the only thing that keeps you honest is yourself.

By Sally K on 06/15/2009 11:14 am

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i think you misunderstood me. i agree with you on all counts. but you said MOST women that go for men like that never expect to deal with them out in the open in a non-prison setting. so i was saying how about those that do or those that get intimacy thru conjigal visits? they are definitely wrong in what they are doing but what makes them different from those that don’t really want a relationship outside of the jail?

By Nancy Pea on 06/16/2009 12:53 am

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Youre right, I did misunderstand you. And, I don’t really now why a woman would help a man escape from a prison I never talked to any one who did, and so have no first hand knowledge of such a person’s take on it. Now that i think about it, however, i still can’t help thinking it’s has something to do with previous trauma and abuse that the woman may have experienced. Maybe, she, originally,allowed the relationship to develop because she was secure, perhaps unconsciously, in the thought that he would not be free any time soon. Then, as the relationship progressed, she began to want a more realistic situation. However, The fact that she’d give up her life and become a fugitive in order to be with someone that she’s never known when he was not an incarcerated person speaks to something not being right. But, you’re absolutely right, whatever it is , it’s probably a little different than what causes a woman to forge a relationship with a man who may never be free and in a position to do her physical harm.

By Sally K on 06/17/2009 12:01 am