Dear Margo | 07/31/2009 1:00 am

Dear Margo: When Three Is Not a Crowd

A woman, who’s been in a polyamorous relationship for years, seeks a fourth mate. Margo Howard’s bright advice …

When Three Is Not a Crowd

Dear Margo: I’ve been in a long-term polyamorous MFM triad with two really wonderful guys for the last four years, one of whom I’ve been seeing for almost seven. We have a lower-than-average drama quotient than even most dyadic (two person couple) relationships, and are all very happy with each other and our lives. We had always talked about seeking another female mate, but our non-relationship life stuff hadn’t really been such that we could devote much time to the endeavor. Now, our lives have finally settled down for the most part, and we’ve come to realize that none of us can think of a way to approach someone with this. We’ve tried online and our local poly community as places to look for dates, to no avail. I realize that it will be difficult to find someone who is compatible with all of us, but we need a way to politely put ourselves out there first. Could you give three shy nerds an opener or some advice? — Wannabe Quad

Dear Wan: You are making this sound like rounding up a fourth for bridge. Although I am not an old hand at figuring out how to be of assistance to the polyamorous, I would recommend that you let life happen. This seems to be the way to go, since you haven’t had any luck with what you call your local poly community or online advertising. And it may be that you "three shy nerds" are doing fine as a threesome. I would also like to advise people who disapprove of your lifestyle not to write asking why I didn’t tell you this is not "normal" or "moral." I only and always deal with the question asked. — Margo, non-judgmentally

Up to His Eyeballs in Porn

Dear Margo: With 30 years of experience, I felt I had to respond to the many letters you’ve printed regarding men looking at porn. What started out as "looking at naughty videos" has become a lifelong disease in my home. First I found my husband’s magazines and books. Then life moved into the video age; now the computer. Besides the pain, anger and disgust I’ve been burdened with, I had to try to protect our sons from Daddy’s 2 a.m. "hobby." Later I worried they’d come home late with friends to find Dad on the computer. If I wake up at 3 a.m. on a Friday or Saturday night and want to go downstairs for water, I have to make noise so he knows I’m coming. Recently I stumbled onto, well, a new depth of depravity in his viewing that left me stunned, shaking and devastated. I confronted him, as I have many times over the years, and he swore, "Never again." Yeah, right. And now grandchildren are a possibility. Anyway, my experienced advice to women who are dating is to discuss porn viewing early on (some people are OK with it) and explain that it is a "deal breaker" for you. Let someone else deal with this guy because there ain’t no cure for this one. — Sadder but Wiser

Dear Sad: I always listen to the voice of experience, and I’ve seldom heard from a woman who is good with her husband’s affinity for, or more likely his addiction to, porn. A couple, together, enjoying erotica is a far cry from a man who’s parked at the computer for hours on end forking over his credit card number for sexual entertainment. — Margo, cautiously

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Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers’ daughter. All letters must be sent via e-mail to dearmargo@creators.com. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.
COPYRIGHT 2009 MARGO HOWARD
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM

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156 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Sounds like a great many conflicting issues. For the same person to be doing everything suggested it would almost required that MPD be added to the mix. Since the basis of all of these issues is ultimately sex, anything having to do with sex can cause it regardless of how it is manifest. It simply exposes the limited knowledge of those who would consider themselves an authority. This is likely to offend, but it’s like fundie Xians who can’t conceive of anything be creation by a deity. That only speaks to the level they can grasp and what they discard because it conflicts with their faith. It has no basis in reality.

By KarleenS on 08/01/2009 1:38 am

#1 - Ridiculous. (Period)

#2 - She has discovered for herself a very important lesson and she speaks the truth. Couples MUST discuss sex, fantasies and yes…porn, early on in their relationship to determine true compatibility in that area. Sex is extremely important and people dismiss its importance. Look at the number of women over 50 on this site who perceive themselves as non-sexual and how sex it a non issue in their lives. Living their lives from the waist up.

When the truth is sex and intimacy is a part of all of us. And choosing to ignore that part of yourself is just as much of an issue as the person who focuses too much on it. I personally have no objection to porn. Let me clarify that, certain porn. If it contains adults engaging in sex, good for them. Most people and polls bare this out, are against porn. Especially women. Yet the billions of money the porn industry makes every year tells me there are a WHOLE lot of hypocrites in our world buying and watching the stuff.

Men and women by day decry it, stick up their noses at it, but by night are watching it, stashing it away in their private places. So if you are in a relationship with a man or woman that tells you from the start, yes they love porn and like looking at it alot, you have been forewarned. I don’t believe it always has to be a "couple event" men and women alike (whether married or simply dating) should be allowed their me-time to watch, enjoy and even masturbate in private. And when they do, it shouldn’t be labeled as a sickness or major issue for discussion.

"Why are you looking at that alone, what’s wrong with me?" That’s just silly thinking in my opinion.

By BelindaJoy on 07/31/2009 10:19 am

Belinda, I totally agree with you. I don’t always understand the objection that people have to porn, and why so many women take it as a rejection of them. You are right~people are entitled to their private lives and enjoyments, even in a marriage…otherwise you suffocate each other. I also have no problem with certain types of porn, and even the stuff that isn’t my cup of tea isn’t necessarily a problem, as long as they aren’t offended by me not wanting to watch it. There are things that people enjoy that make me wonder about them, but….different strokes for different folks. However, I DO agree that if someone is forsaking all relations with a significant other to partake of porn, it’s probably a symptom of a greater problem, with that individual or the relationship as a whole. Those problems can’t be resolved by hint-dropping and sneaking around, they need to be addressed upfront. If your SO truly respects you, they will listen when you say that you have a problem with something they are doing. This LW is a little ambiguous about just WHAT her husband is looking at that she finds so depraved; it could be something that she personally doesn’t care for, or it could be something extreme or even illegal…it’s impossible to know from what she’s said.

By ElizabethNewman on 07/31/2009 11:22 am

LW2 is difficult to judge without knowing more specifics on "Recently I stumbled onto, well, a new depth of depravity in his viewing that left me stunned, shaking and devastated. I confronted him, as I have many times over the years, and he swore, "Never again." Yeah, right. "

That certainly suggests something other than just enjoying porn.

I wonder why she doesn’t consider throwing him out.

By RitaGoldivas on 07/31/2009 11:03 am

Yeah, someone who gets his jollies looking at things like child porn, sadism, that kind of thing, has something going on other than just basic sexual kicks. Like I said before, if what he is looking at is illegal, than she needs to turn it over to the police ASAP, to avoid being held just as responsible as him. Otherwise, if she is really not okay with it, than she needs to extricate herself from it.

By ElizabethNewman on 07/31/2009 11:15 am

#1 You just have to relax and let it happen, but I agree that a three would be better than a four, because then you are still a unit instead of breaking off into two units like can happen with four. You have a good thing going, dont ruin it by trying to hard to make it better, because you dont know if things dont work if you will really be going back to what you already had before or if that is gone forever.

#2 My husband and I both like some porn, me probably more than him. To me, I dont think I would be as bothered by the subject matter, unless it was something illegal like with children or animals. My bigger issue would be how much time he spends on it, and is he preferring porn to sex with me, which would get him totally booted out of the bedroom and have his collection confiscated, or if he is spending money on it. If you havent tried watching with him though, you may want to consider it. Many women against the idea originally will wind up liking how amorous their hubbies get for them even with some hot woman on the big tv screen.

By LubnaDovel on 07/31/2009 11:26 am

Margo, why do you refer to it as "what you call your local poly community"? If they were looking for a fourth for bridge by asking among people they know who play, who attend bride-focused events, who participate in online discussion and social network sites about bridge, would you refer to that as "what you call your bridge community"? If this letter writer were gay and looking for a partner, would you use the phrasing "what you call your local gay community"?

That you are skeptical of polyamory is pretty clear to anyone who follows your column, but this sort of nasty little dig is beneath you.

By ElizabethHunter1 on 07/31/2009 1:01 pm

Elizabeth, To clarify before i begin: I believe that consenting adults should "live and let live," and I wish the letter writer the best of luck in love however she experiences it. To your accusation: Perhaps you read Margo more closely or accurately than me, but I don’t think Margo’s phrasing was intended as a "nasty little dig." The letter-writer referred to her "local poly community," but didn’t specify if this is an organized club or just people who occasionally bump into eachother around town or whatnot. I don’t know anyone in a poly relationship, and don’t have any idea what the letter-writer means by a "local poly community," so if I were to say "…what you call your local poly community" it would be meant simply as a reference to what the letter-writer said, no extra implications intended.

By AliciaM on 07/31/2009 1:20 pm

I may be over-reading this, but I was more concerned with the last part of the response -

"I would also like to advise people who disapprove of your lifestyle not to write asking why I didn’t tell you this is not "normal" or "moral." I only and always deal with the question asked."

I feel like by not saying it…she did.

By Reader117 on 07/31/2009 1:57 pm

That wasn’t a dig! It was the best way to say, "Look among others who are like you". There are sub-groups in all communities! As a teacher, I am part of the "educational community". That means that though I live in a large group, there is a certain special interest sub-group that I belong to. It’s the same as a person who hikes—they are part of a sub-group within the larger human community. Comic Con and Ren Fair are both excellent examples of sub-groups. If you want to hook up with other Trekkies, Civiil War reenactment groups, or swinging couples you look within the SUB groups of the local area. There are people who play bridge, and then there are people who are part of a bridge playing subculture! Subcultures have their own meeting places, their own norms, and even their own lingo.
Geez, it’s not an insult, it’s a metaphysical grouping of people with like interests.

By AR1 on 08/02/2009 12:37 pm

Letter #2: I feel bad for the letter writer, and hope she can find peace—it seems that she should get a divorce, but I understand that it’s usually not that simple. As seems to be the prevailing opinion posted here, I believe that (legal) porn is not bad in and of itself, though an addiction/obsession with porn is bad and can destroy relationships. Someone mentioned big porn collections, and i think a big porn collection on display might bother me, but a big porn collection tucked away in the closet gathering dust isn’t an issue. My fiance has a huge box of porn tapes in the closet. I don’t know when he amassed the collection, perhaps right out of high school or after his divorce, or how much he used to watch them, but to my knowledge he hasn’t watched a single one since I moved in 7 months ago. A few months before I moved in with him I offered to watch a porn movie with him to "see what it’s all about"; I was grossed out and told him that I don’t have a problem with him watching them on his own from time to time but i’m not interested in watching with him. I agree with other posters who have said that it’s important to find out early in the relationship how each of you feels about porn, and that outlawing it completely is probably futile.

By AliciaM on 07/31/2009 1:05 pm

Could it be possible that there are other reasons why LW #1 wrote, such as,

a.) She’s using the column, in the guise of asking advice, to advertise for a new partner?

b.) She’s actually a polyamory activist, trying to increase awareness and acceptability of the lifestyle, and is using Margo’s column in an underhanded way to do so?

Sorry to sound so cynical, but my BS meter pinned when I read this. I bring these questions up because the letter seems so disingenous to me, what to speak of self-congratulatory.

If the polyamory community can’t help her, why would Margo (who presumably has little-to-no experience helping polyamorous people with stocking their mate-pool) be able to help her? What kind of advice was she expecting: join a club, go to church?

And how shy could they be if they’ve gotten over and around the taboos society places on polyamory, so much so that they’ve been living like this for years?

It smells of propaganda: "Polyamory is the best thing since sliced bread; our only problem is we need someone NEW to love." Sheesh.

By TPP on 07/31/2009 1:08 pm

Or, if they are indeed three nerds that fell into the lifestyle, they might not know how to approach someone. If you come up to a woman and say, "The three of us would like to date you!" chances are she’ll run screaming for the hills. The impression I got was how they should bring the topic up. Dating is hard enough for us nerdlike beings without adding the additional complication of desiring something not of the norm. Unless you’re looking for a short term thing at a con….

By RJBReed on 07/31/2009 1:13 pm

You can "fall into" a threesome, maybe even more than once. I don’t think you merely fall into such a lifestyle. I mean, most of us grew up with those taboos ourselves, so it takes some effort to overcome them. And from what I’ve read in the polyamory literature (don’t ask how I stumbled upon it), there is an activist, anti-monogamist element (also hinted at in the letter) to the lifestyle. Dating is hard, in part, because we fear that we’ll be alone if don’t find someone. The LW has a great life by her own accounting, so she’s operating from a position of strength. Should make things a little easier, actually.

Don’t want to be rude, but since I’m limiting my internet intercourse, I’ll bow out of the dialog now. I’ll read new comments with great interest, though.

By TPP on 07/31/2009 1:38 pm

I am adamantly against porn because it objectifies and brutalizes all the performers. It is a deal breaker for me - I once told a man he could "have at it" with the chick on the screen since she was the one who turned him on. What an insult! Why should I tolerate something I find patently offensive? If men are such studs - as they will have us believe - why isn’t the woman at hand enough? The man at hand has always been enough for me - maybe because I have chosen my partners well.

By StephanieChodera on 07/31/2009 1:20 pm