Dear Margo | 10/08/2009 12:00 am

Dear Margo: A Troubled Person Must Want to 'Fix' Himself

A Troubled Person Must Want To "Fix" Himself

Dear Margo: I am a 28-year-old woman with a conundrum. I am married to a man I love very much, who says he loves me. However, things are unraveling fast for us. Before we got married, we spoke of all the things we would like to do together — travel, buy a house, make a life for ourselves. Yet, not long after we officially tied the knot, he lost interest in doing any of those things.

Our fifth anniversary is quickly approaching, and he refuses to put a dollar away for a down payment on a house or to plan a trip. When I ask him why, he has no good answers. Even worse, he has lost interest in many of the things he used to love. He won’t go anywhere with me, he won’t make plans, he doesn’t go out with friends, he refuses to spend time with either of our families, and he doesn’t even buy me birthday presents anymore. Everything in our lives revolves around him and what he wants, which is just to sit around the house unbothered by anyone’s expectations.

I suspect he is depressed, but he refuses to see a counselor or doctor to deal with it. I just want him to be happy again, but I feel my life is deteriorating because I am trying to put his back together. I feel very unloved at the moment because all of the care and support in our marriage comes from me, with nothing given in return. I just want the man I fell in love with and married. It has gotten to the point where he is telling me I can do better than him. So my question is: Should I? — Confused in Kansas City

Dear Con: I agree that he is depressed, and I also think you need not stick around for this drama if he refuses to get help. I would give him a choice: either/or. If you can’t help someone (or convince him to help himself), there is no reason to ruin two lives. I share with you a saying that has served me well: All you can do is all you can do. Good luck. — Margo, forwardly

What To Do When People Put You in the Middle

Dear Margo: I work in a small office of a dozen people, most of whom are transient employees who come and go every few years. I and two other women, "Liz" and "Miranda," are the only permanent employees. Liz and Miranda have worked together for a number of years and truly detest one another. I started a few months ago and get along with both of them, though I’m not sure for how much longer. Both of them complain endlessly to me about the other, often on a daily basis. I listen sympathetically, but there’s only so much I can take. They both think I’m on their "side," but I think they both need an attitude adjustment. What can I say to them so they stop using me to vent? They are quite immature, and I’m afraid they’ll instantly resent me and make work even less pleasant. The sad thing is that I’m decades younger than these women, yet I often feel like the only adult! — Punching Bag in Canada

Dear Punch: I am especially sympathetic to workplace problems in a small office because there is really no place to hide. Too bad these babes are not among the transients, but there you are. I would recommend that the next time you are the designated Dr. Phil, just say that you feel uncomfortable and unqualified to offer advice about their particular problem. If you’re feeling really bold, you could suggest to one, or both, that perhaps relocating to another job might provide the solution. — Margo, tactically

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Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers’ daughter. All letters must be sent via e-mail to dearmargo@creators.com. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered. To read more about Margo Howard, click here.

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69 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Letter #1: Either he’s seriously clinically depressed or he’s passively-aggressively trying to work you out of his life. :-( He doesn’t even buy you birthday gifts anymore?? Margo recommended giving him a choice: Either/or. That really is your only option, aside from allowing this to miserably go on with two lives ruined.

Letter #2: I’d tell them both (separately) politely, "Well I’m here to work. I’m sorry you feel that way about her, but I’d prefer to be left out of it." At the very worst both will give you a cold shoulder afterwards (which would probably be a blessing), although I have a hunch the true friend of the two would abide by your wishes and become downright pleasant. Yeah, it’s a pity they’re much older than you and behaving immaturely; but physical age is one thing, emotional age is another. :-\ Good luck. Makes me glad to be employed in my home (even if it does get lonely).

By Cindy Marek on 10/08/2009 6:30 am

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LW#2 I was in the very same situation when I began working with my company 25 years ago. On top of that, I was going through a very nasty divorce and this job was supposed to be my vehicle for starting a new life, so the last thing I wanted was to be working in the middle of a battlefield. I tried to tell them both that this was not a volleyball game and I didn’t want to have to choose up sides, but after a few months they tired of fighting with each other and teamed up together and tried to fight with me. When I refused to engaged, one retired and one took a lateral transfer and I ended up as the office manager. Hang in there — sooner or later they will cancel each other out.

By Susan JH on 10/08/2009 6:33 am

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LW #1 - Your situation is hard and I feel for you - I am not sure what I would do if I were in your shoes. I know you LOVE this man and its not easy to just walk away from someone you love b/c you want to see them happy and be the one to make them happy. I agree with Margo that if he isnt willing to get help for himself then there isnt much you can do for him. Before I married my hubby we hit a rough patch BUT b/c we loved each other we went and talked to a local Pastor who helped us greatly see what each of us was doing "wrong" - that was a real eye opener for both of us.

If your Love isnt even willing to get help - I am not one for ultimatums but in this case it seems like the thing to do but REMEMBER dont ask or say anything if your NOT prepared for the response.

By C Hardy on 10/08/2009 6:35 am

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LW#2 You say you listen sympathetically and each thinks you are on their side. Perhaps you need to adjust your listening skills for this situation. You cannot change others but you can change yourself. So the next time one of them bends your ear, you might say something like, "How frustrating for you. What does she say when you try to work it out with her?" Try to put it back on each of them to work out their issues. Then move on with a quick, "Well, I know you are smart so you will figure out the right way to deal with this." And get on with your work.

By Barbara on 10/08/2009 7:01 am

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LW#1

I was in a similar situation with a man that was very successful when we met. I suspect he was just successfully masking his depression, but when we got engaged, he started staying at home and not even making dinner or cleaning up the house, which I would have been fine with. I gave him six months to shape up in my own mind, since ultimatums never work with depression. He didn’t, and I left. Sometimes we spend too much time hoping that the person we met will return, but chances are good that the person you met was his public face, and you’ve just met the real guy.

By Angela West on 10/08/2009 7:18 am

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A counselor I once knew told me that, for whatever reasons, "some people choose to be unhappy." I have found this to be true. Five years is quite an investment of time in a situation that is not getting any better - with no indication that it will ever improve. You have shown an inordinate amount of paitence with this man. If he refuses help, for the sake of your own happiness and sanity, you need to move on. Then do whatever you need to do to get your own life back on track.

By Paula Martino on 10/08/2009 7:19 am

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Ok, I don’t know what kind of counselor this person was, but that’s a pretty blanket statement. Most people don’t "choose" to be unhappy…some people are grumps or debbie downers, because the people around them enable that behavior. People don’t usually "CHOOSE" to be depressed…if anything, most of them would love to be happy again, and enjoy life, but just can’t. 5 years, in the terms of a marriage, is nothing; not to mention, it sounds to me like she has spent the majority of that time feeling sorry for herself, because he isn’t showering her with attention. My advise to her….fish or cut bait. Either be a partner to him, or get out and let him find someone that will be supporting of ALL of him.

And no, I don’t advocate that people stay with partners that are abusive or destructive. But I do advocate that people who get married be adult enough to recognize that marriage is about more than what your spouse does for you, and that someone who is sick with depression can’t just fix it themselves….and if she isn’t willing to stick by him and lay aside unimportant thigns like birthday presents and expensive trips, then she is doing him just as much a disservice as she is doing him.

By Elizabeth Newman on 10/08/2009 9:24 am

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well the inverse is definitely true… study after study shows the number one trait of happy people is that they choose to be happy.

People can be much more in charge of their brains than you seem to think. They may not take that control, but it’s there nonetheless.

By chuck alien on 10/08/2009 12:20 pm

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Give me a break Elizabeth Newman!

She has been supportive for FIVE years. Her husband has refused to seek help. She has done everything humanly possible to help and be supportive. Why should be have to spend the rest of her life in a miserable loveless relationship? Why should she be a silent sufferer? She spent FIVE years too many with this husband. I’d be the first to say be loving and supportive but since he refuses to help himself why should she be forced to sacrifice her life? Don’t give me the argument about marriage vows "in sickness and in health." She has fulfilled her vows. I suspect you want her to stick around for the "until death do us part."

Run sweetie you deserve better. There is always the possibility he is trying to end the marriage in a very cowardly way.

This is not about gifts and attention. Chances are Mr. Depressed / Mr. Con Man or Mr. Coward misrepresented himself and did the old "bait and switch." If this situation were the reverse I’d say the same.

By L. C. on 10/08/2009 10:33 pm

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I’m sorry, but 5 years, in the grand scheme of things, is nothing. As for the "argument" about marriage vows, what do you find so offensive about it? If you get married, most vow to love and remain faithful to their spouse in good times and bad, sickness and in health…if you don’t mean it, then don’t say it. We spend far too much time worrying about OUR happiness, what WE need…marriage is a team effort, not 2 people moving along parallel tracks.

That said, LW #1 needs to decide if she really wants to save her marriage or not. At this point, it kinda sounds like he has already geared himself for her to leave him. I know the feeling well, because when I was suffering from severe depression, I did the same thing…I shoved away everyone because I didn’t feel like I deserved their love; I was this hopeless, useless being who was just a burden on everyone. People truly suffering from depression usually won’t go to the doctor the first time you suggest it…they will fight you on it. They don’t see themselves as worthy of any kind of love or affection, and so you leaving may not even merit a mention, because they expect it. I don’t know how to explain it, but you have to be willing to fight for THEM…and sometimes you have to be willing to do the hard things. Some people who suffer from depression become so accustomed to their feelings that they think they are totally normal.

You also can’t ask people who are depressed to get help for YOU…..they have to do it for THEMSELVES. It’s just like losing weight, or quitting smoking…it means more if you ultimately do it for yourself. My parents ended up bringing old pictures and videos of me as a kid, made me watch them, and said, Don’t YOU want to be happy again? Don’t YOU want to enjoy life again? Because it breaks our hearts to see you this way. Stress that above all, you love him very much, and can’t stand to see him this way. Getting through to someone who is depressed means you have to break through the shell they’ve built around themselves. Get angry with them…make them get angry. There’s no one way to do it, but you if you truly want to save your marriage, don’t take his behavior personally, because I doubt it’s a reflection on you, and show him that you aren’t going to let him push you away….that you know the man you fell in love with is in there somewhere.

By Elizabeth Newman on 10/09/2009 8:09 am

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I’m sorry, but 5 years, in the grand scheme of things, is nothing.

I beg to differ. Five years of working on a problem with no resolution is a long time. He has not gone through a tough couple of months or a rough year—he’s changed his personality, his goals, and his communication with her. THere is zero indication that he intends to seek help or even recognize that he needs it.

He is an adult, and he has made the decision to remain in stasis. It’s time for her to go.

By A R on 10/10/2009 6:55 pm

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Great score Margo on both letters! Perhaps the husband will find a new life after his wife makes her decision, whatever she chooses.

As for the working trio, it is always a bad choice to listen to someone else bad-mouth a co-worker. It is better to stop that right away. I had an employee who always asked the person complaining, "Have you told the boss about this? Perhaps you should. I’m sure I don’t want to hear about it." It worked perfectly for her and eventually, I learned that there was not peace in ranks and was able to sort it out.

By S A on 10/08/2009 7:57 am

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DEar PB in Canada: Tell then both they’re behaving 2 yr olds in a temper tantrum and need to begin acting like adults again.

By F P on 10/08/2009 8:16 am

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Ok, it seems obvious to me that NOONE on here has suffered true clinical depression, or they belabor under a terrible double standard. I have suffered from bouts of depression/anxiety since I was a child…until I was forced by my parents to get help (when I was 19), I often would go to school and come home, and sit in my room till the next morning. I felt like that lowest of the low, like I was the stupidest person alive, like nothing I did made any difference, etcetcetc. I know from personal experience that having someone harping in your ear about "why aren’t you saving money", and "why don’t you buy me expensive presents anymore", and "why do you just lay around, why don’t you grow up"….would have only made it worse. Sometimes the best thing you can do for someone in that deep of a hole is an "intervention"…make it abundantly clear that you love them dearly, and it breaks your heart to see them suffering, but if they won’t help themselves, then you have to live your life. But don’t make ultimatums you aren’t prepared to follow through on. Sometimes the danger of losing the things they care about the most are enough to force someone who is clinically depressed into therapy, sometimes it’s not.

But please, can we please lay off the man-bashing on here? Men are JUST as capable of suffering from crippling depression as women are—it doesn’t make them lazy, or con men, or anything like that. They are human, just like us. I would also offer the tidbit to LW#1, that marriage/true love is about MUCHMUCH more than trips and birthday presents….real lasting love is about being there for your spouse…sickness and health, and your husband is sick.

By Elizabeth Newman on 10/08/2009 8:31 am

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Elizabeth, Yours is the best response here. I was surprised that no one had suggested exactly what you did, that she tell the husband she loves him dearly and hates to see him suffer. People forget that depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain. The guy can choose to balance his chemicals and get some therapy to provide him with the tools to manage depression. It’s no different than having to take insulin. It still surprises me how quickly people say to dump a person who suffers from mental illness. Who would say that about any other illness?

Because the wife loves the husband I believe she owes him the effort of doing everything within her power to get him the help he clearly needs. If he will not get the care he needs and take care of himself, he is not life partner material and she should leave and build the life she wants. Knowing that she did everything she did to help him will allow her to do it with a clear conscience.

By Leigh Hart on 10/08/2009 8:52 am