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Dear Margo | 10/15/2009 12:00 am

Dear Margo: Phone Sex in the Office!

Margo Howard

Phone Sex in the Office! 

Dear Margo: I have a contract position — very much needed after six months of unemployment. I’m doing a good job and get on well superficially with my supervisor. Here’s the problem: I am required to sit next to a 40-something schmo in an office with very low cubicle walls. He has easily audible sexual conversations with his multiple girlfriends and either doesn’t realize or doesn’t care that they are overheard. These are conversations describing how what she did (explicit) felt (explicit) exactly where on his body (explicit) during their lunch hour. I wear earphones and listen to soothing sounds to calm my nerves, but when he really gets on a roll, I go to the bathroom or the coffee machine. But there is only so much time you can spend away from your desk.

My co-worker on the other side, also male (but 25), is incredulous because he can hear it, too. As a contractor, I can be let go for any reason, with or without "just" cause. I can’t complain to HR. Bigmouth and his supervisor are big buddies. I feel trapped, demeaned and altogether furious when this occurs. I really try to keep my head down, ears closed and fingers busy on the keyboard, but it gets unbearable! Is there any solution? — Grossed Out

Dear Gross: Why can’t you go to HR? Or your supervisor? Such conversations not only have nothing to do with work and should not take place on company time, but they’re a form of harassment. This is nothing more than dirty talk in the workplace. I would not be so afraid of this lowlife. You could tell him, yourself, that he may not be aware of it, but many people in the office can hear these lascivious conversations, and no one appreciates them. I suggest you man up, to coin a phrase. If no one chooses to deal with the problem, you have a lawsuit. — Margo, righteously  

Children and Death 

Dear Margo: I know you hear of many sad things, but this surely has to be at the top of the list.
My wonderful sister (33) recently lost her husband to cancer, and in addition to her own grief, she has three young children (8-year-old twin girls and an 11-year-old son) who are confused, sad and lonely, and who I fear have no real understanding of what "gone" is. It is heartbreaking, and I would love to help my sister and her children, but I don’t know how. Grief counseling, to my knowledge, does not deal with children. Do you have any suggestions for me? It is hard to watch people I love living through such a dark time. — Distraught Aunt

Dear Dis: My best suggestion would be a book recently released that is meant for guiding young children through the death of someone close to them. It is "A Parent’s Guide to Raising Grieving Children." The authors are Phyllis Silverman and Madelyn Kelly. The publisher is Oxford University Press. Silverman is a pioneering researcher who ran the largest study ever done on bereaved children, and Kelly, the mother of two young children, lost her husband in the second Iraq war. (Mike Kelly was the first journalist to be killed, and I knew them both.)

These women met and decided to put what they know between covers. Both were deeply concerned for children experiencing loss and wanted to offer something of value to others. It was through their shared interest that this useful and supportive book was conceived. It is excellent. I seldom recommend books, but in your sister’s situation, I can think of no better guidance. — Margo, restoratively

***
Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers’ daughter. All letters must be sent via e-mail to dearmargo@creators.com. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered. To read more about Margo Howard, click here.

COPYRIGHT 2009 MARGO HOWARD
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.

Every Thursday and Friday, you can find "Dear Margo" and her latest words of wisdom on our home page at www.wowowow.com. Or better yet, click to sign up for an instant email alert that will send a message right to your in-box every time a new "Dear Margo" column is posted on wowOwow. 

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Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers’ daughter. All letters must be sent via e-mail to dearmargo@creators.com. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered. COPYRIGHT 2009 MARGO HOWARD DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM 

97 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

Leslie Moran

Not sure why some of the posters are so vehemently opposed to Belinda’s approach.  HR depts are there for a reason — one of their functions is to address complaints of hostile work environments for anyone — temp or not.  In fact, they are legally obligated to do so.  If employees are more willing to be professional and direct for the good of the company, bad workplace behavior may not be as prevalent and tolerated.  I’ve hired many temps/contractors over the years.  If I found a good one who was hard-working with a good work ethic, you better believe I would listen and act on a complaint, especially if it was delivered in a calm, professional manner.  Companies don’t want to lose good, productive workers.  In fact, the lout sounds like he’s extremely unproductive, and the company may welcome this information as ammunition to get rid of him.  In this tight job market and economy, companies need to be as lean and productive as possible.  Even so called "buddies" of supervisors are not exempt or protected anymore.  I would put it in writing — stating your concern about the risk to your job — but from the perspective about how it hurts the company (productivity, morale, losing business from clients who may overhear, etc.).  Yes, there is some risk to your job, but do you want to work for an organization that tolerates that kind of crap once it’s brought to the forefront?

By Leslie Moran on 10/15/2009 3:09 pm
isabelle fried

omg…if you can’t get the clod to act like a man, then use emabarrassment to shut his trap.

"you know about men who talk about sex all the time…they GET NONE!?" or tape his sorry ass conversations and play them back to him the next day when he starts on his new exploits.

what BS………must have a small dick to act like such as big one!

By isabelle fried on 10/15/2009 4:32 pm
susi fuschia

I agree. You can be upfront and let him know it’s a no-no without being aggressive. Best, though if you can get everyone within earshot to agree. You could also tap him on the shoulder as he starts and say "Can you just hold on till I get my phone? Because I was telling my boyfriend all about you and he said to be sure and catch the conversation next time. He’s just dying to send it to his college friends. They’re gonna love it!" If he says it’s private, you can act all confused and say" No, it’s not, what do you mean?". It takes nerve and it’s counter intuitive but you can never underestimate the power of surprise.

I live in England and I must say it would be hard for someone to get away with that here because everyone would tease this guy wretchedly. It would be a joke that followed him through his whole office career. It would be on every greetings card he ever received :))) Maybe we’ve given up the whole idea of doing things through official channels and getting anywhere long ago…

 

 

By susi fuschia on 10/15/2009 5:17 pm
Louise Browning
She should talk to some of the other women & ask if that’s the way things normally work. If not, then they all should go to HR & complain. It doesn’t have to be just women either…i’m sure some of the men  are just as fed up. Nobody shoud have to put up with a "garbage mouth", no matter if hey’re temps, contract, or  if they work for the co. full time. In fact, I’m a little surprised nobody has spoken up! Being buddies with the HR person doesn’t give him the right to subject others to his sexual acomplishments(?). The more I think about it, the more I like what Susi Fuschia said, * IF u have the guts to do it, GO FOR IT!!! I’d bet a dime to a donut hole that everybody in that office will applaud u. (except Mr. garbage mouth). Other than that, ask ur temp/contract office to place u elsewhere  explain why. I know times r tuff now, but u still shouldn’t have to put with that ‘crap’!!
By Louise Browning on 10/15/2009 5:33 pm
Donna Weiss
#1  - What I did, when it happened to me, was print out a copy of the sexual harassment section of the company policy, place it in a plain brown envelope with their name bold typed on the front (as if it came from HR) and left it on their desk.  The talk stopped immediately.
By Donna Weiss on 10/15/2009 7:42 pm
V B
This guy has sex on his lunch hour and then comes back to work and talks about it in a lengthy personal call on company time. Girl get a tape recorder.  Keep your ears open. There will come a day when it will come in handy.
By V B on 10/15/2009 8:54 pm
Renee Johnson
I know in Iowa there is a program called Amanda the Panda, which has camps for children who have lost a loved one (not just a parent, but anyone they were close to), and it has helped many children. Maybe there is help in establishing this or a program like it in your state.
By Renee Johnson on 10/15/2009 10:06 pm
Constance Plank

I’m responding about the sexual conversations on the job.

The HR department entirely depends on who heads it.

Years ago, I worked for a start up computer company in Silicon Valley.  It was a really bad economy when I was graduated from college in the 1980’s.  And despite being tri-lingual, and graduated from one of the Seven Sisters, it was very, very hard to get a job.

Eventually, I took a job as a receptionist at a company which was not called Simile, but its counterpart.  (You can figure out the name if you want.)   At first I worked for a delightful, kind woman.  Later they hired an HR professional, who offered me 2K more than she delivered. 

I threw all the company parties.  Weekly beer & wine busts, monthly more important hotel-based meetings, and the Open-House, Holiday, etc parties where we spent the big bucks.

At any rate, sexual harrassment happens & HR may not care. At a hotel-based meeting, the manufacturing manager manipulated me into crying.  Then he asked me out.  Eeeeew!

I told the HR manager, who told me that I was imagining the sexual harrassment.

No, I wasn’t. As I spoke among the other young & pretty admins, I was not the first. In fact, one of the new receptionists had moved off the manufacturing floor because he was rubbing himself against her.  

I discovered that he’d been fired from his previous job for sexual harrassment.  My HR boss was only in favor of the bosses.  So, since HR was useless, I had a tougher admin who worked for the VP of Engineering complain to that VP the next time the manufacturing manager hit on her.  Mr. Frottage was gone  within the week.

There are really good HR people out there.  There are really bad ones.  I’ve had both.

You can work around them.

Cheers,

Constance

who is all in favor of anonymous recordings ending up in HR

By Constance Plank on 10/16/2009 12:00 am
Lindy Finestein
Susi has offered the perfect solution.  Humor is the way to go.  I would also say "Are you finished over there? Do you want a cigarette?"
By Lindy Finestein on 10/16/2009 4:53 am
susi fuschia
Oh wonderful! :)))))))))))
By susi fuschia on 10/16/2009 8:51 am
A R

I disagree about the humorour route. It may get his attention for a moment, however unless you are prepared to follow up with the rest of the serious conversation, it will come across as you thinking he is amusing.

Seen it too many times to count…..

If you are disgusted, be prepared to say so. Otherwise, he can later claim, "Well, she joked that one time about me needing a cigarette, so I didn’t think it bothered her. She acted like it was funny."

By A R on 10/17/2009 8:53 am
Kerri Ebright

Even as a temp, you should be able to send an anonymous letter to HR (assuming that there are more people around than just you and the 25-year-old in earshot of these conversations).  If you company is like most companies these days, calls - whether incoming, outgoing, professional or personal - are monitored and/or recorded.  I would write a letter stating that you "were in the area of" this guy’s desk when you overheard a "very explicit" call, and recommend that they either review the current records of calls, else begin monitoring the calls this guy is making/receiving.  Make sure that a copy also goes NOT TO YOUR SUPERVISOR (who is buddies with the offending party) but to your supervisor’s boss.  Make it clear to HR and the Big Boss that the offensive oaf and his commanding officer are both problematic.  Then give it time to arrive and "filter down".

 Meanwhile, as a temp, I’d speak to your personal rep at the agency that placed you there (if that’s the case, and the way you were placed in the position) and let them know what’s going on.   My guess is that the offensive party is the reason they have to get a temp in the first place.  I, as a temp, worked as a personal assistant to a vice president for a software company.  The man was going through a divorce, and - while he WAS in his office and the office was widely separated from the remaining employees - he would often receive calls from the soon to be ex wife.  He would call her things that I wouldn’t repeat in any company (including the "C" word, more than once) and would then emerge after one of those calls to be nasty and hateful to me.  Eventually it was too much for me to handle and I left — but on the way out, I stopped by HR to tell them what was going on, and that they might want to put either a male temp in the job, else put a muzzle on the Veep.  :)  I received glowing letters of praise from a number of co-workers and the HR rep, sent to my temp agency, because of what went on.  It helped immensely in them placing me in another position right away.

By Kerri Ebright on 10/16/2009 6:30 am
James the Game

Record (digital or tape) the illicit conversations, so you can document the evidence - in court, in case you’re fired.

By James the Game on 10/16/2009 8:42 am
Aglaia 761

Re: LW#1

I was in almost the same position as LW#1 and all I can say is document, document, document, and record.  

 I worked as a temp admin in a medium sized office and was constantly surrounded by macho jocks who thought it would be funny to make really inappropriate remarks both in and out of my hearing.  The last straw was when one of the IT guys started coming over to my desk in the morning and would ask me about my boyfriends and what I liked to do in bed.  I asked them to stop several times and when that didn’t work, I decided to document everything.

I decided to write down each and every time I heard off color comments directed at me and who I heard saying them.  I also went out and brought a mini recorder and started recording the comments the IT guy was making to me.  I inadvertently managed to record a couple of the inappropriate remarks as well which just helped my cause.

It took about 3 months for me to get up the courage to report the harrasment to my contract manager, but when I was brought in and reprimanded by the ole boys club at the office, having that documentation to back me up was priceless.

It’s been about 6 months since everything went down, but the last I heard, a couple of supervisors were let go and everyone in that office had to undergo mandatory sexual harassment training. 

I’m at a new temp job now and things are a lot better than before…of course when you’re at the bottom you can only go up..right? 

By Aglaia 761 on 10/16/2009 2:32 pm
Jane Yaffe

#2. I don’t know where you live but there are many resources for grieving children and their families nation wide. Two of these resources are the Dougie Center in Portland, OR or Ted E Bear Hollow in Omaha, NE.  If you google the contact info I am sure that either one of these organizations can help you find resources in your area. Most services provided are either free to participants or offered at a nominal cost. Another resource would be the Centering Corporation  (www.centering.org) they offer many resources to help people deal with all kinds of grief.

That said ~ please remember that it is entirely NORMAL for people to grieve and every person grieves in their own way and in their own time. Grief is not a pathological disorder that needs to be "fixed". Encourage these kids to share their feeling, their memories and to do something special to remember their dad.

By Jane Yaffe on 10/17/2009 10:00 am