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People with fervent beliefs in one particular religious system should give some thought to what they would believe if they had been brought up in another. A fundamentalist Christian, born, instead, into a Hindu family? An Orthodox Jew, born, instead, into a Shinto family. A Muslim, born, instead, into a Jain family.
A dear friend, a pillar of the his Christian (granted, not fundamentalist) church always said he was sure had he been born in a different country, into a different culture, his faith would have been as strong, be it Hindu, Muslin, etc. I always appreciated his honesty and his counsel.
A wise friend and one who clearly understands that members of one religion should never impose their religion on others. Religious belief is a cultural attribute as much as anything else. But thank God (or goodness) that we were not born into the Shia sect in Afghanistan. A new law there will allow Shiite men to demand that their wives doll themselves up and have intercourse with them ONDEMAND:
One provision makes it illegal for a woman to resist her husband’s
sexual advances. A second provision requires a husband’s permission for
a woman to work outside the home or go to school. And a third makes it
illegal for a woman to refuse to “make herself up” or “dress up” if
that is what her husband wants.
Afterward, when the demonstrators [all women, and courageous too!] had left, one of the madrasa’s
senior clerics came outside. Asked about the dispute, he said it was
between professionals and nonprofessionals; that is, between the
clerics, who understood the Koran and Islamic law, and the women
calling for the law’s repeal who did not.
“It’s like if you are
sick, you go to a doctor, not some amateur,” said the cleric, Mohammed
Hussein Jafaari. “This law was approved by the scholars. It was passed
by both houses of Parliament. It was signed by the president.”
The religious scholars, Mr. Jafaari conceded, were all men.
Aren’t you glad you weren’t born into THAT particular religion and culture?
I read an article about that recently, as well. The one I read seemed to imply that this law was actually considered fairly progressive because there is a proviso that a man cannot neglect his husbandly duties either. He has a responsibility to have intercouse with his wife no less than, I think, once a month or something. I wish I still had the article so I could quote it more accurately. At any rate, I’m sure that makes the wives feel much better (she said sarcastically).
Yes, you are correct. The law does "protect" women’s rights by insisting that husbands…shall we say… "pleasure" their wives once a month. What a trade-off: she has to doll herself up for him and make herself available whenever he wants; she can’t go out of the house without his permission; and she can’t get a job without his permission BUT he has to "pleasure" her once a month for sure!
Anita: Your friend’s statement is indicative of someone who needs to believe in something, in other words the need is greater than ideology. Since most world religions are vastly different in their demands, beliefs, etc., he evidently means faith in whatever religion he would dip into. I find this curious and what does honesty have to do with what he told you?
I find any form of organized religious meetings as usually serving one purpose or another, and seldom used for the reasons one expects. ORganized meetings mean indoctrination, which is why I was never good at anything of the sort. No offense
I just love reading the posts of the wonderful women here, and I appreciate the opinions of the women ‘of faith’, he wonderful thing about our melting pot country is that we are allowed to do ‘what works for us’ and yet we are exposed to the beauty of all interpretations of faith and increasing reasonings for lack thereof. We must strive to keep this freedom… just witness what is happening in fundamentalist countries, especially when it comes to the freedom of women.
I was raised as a very strict Catholic, 16 years of Catholic education, but I remember even as a child in Mass before school thinking " Come on, you don’t expect me to believe that " but I stayed with it. I loved singing the wonderful old holiday songs in Latin, still love them. There is something to say about rituals and traditions, makes us feel part of something, you know, security in numbers, "how can I NOT believe all this when everyone around me seems to ", BUT, I have a questioning personality, I want to know WHY, I want to read, think, wonder. Then the 60s happened, and I felt permission to think for myself, become part of a wider world, learn about Judaism, Buddhism, Atheism ( OMG it is OKNOT to believe !, is it possible? ) I think what finally drove me running was the guitars and Kumbaya … that is a joke, but it was at the time when I said ENOUGH !
But What DO I have ? I know the only thing that has ever given me goosbumps, made me feel one with the universe was music. With all the reading I do I’ve learned that music is really a mathetical expression and that the world around us is ruled by physics and math, that music is processed in a special part of the brain, it is what makes us connect it with emotions and memories. When I meditate to a Symphony, or listen to a Cello, or the special connection of a jazz combo, or hear that Motown song that reminds me of an old boyfriend, it gives me peace.
And a walk in the woods with my iPod set to my music choice of the day is much more spiritual than anything I ever felt in Church … well, maybe singing Panus Angelicus in the choir up in the choirloft at Christmas …. the ONLY thing I remember about Christmas in Church.
As so many have said above …. whatever works for you.
I was raised a Roman Catholic - Catholic schools from 1st through 12th grade - my uncle, now deceased, was a priest -
for me now, it’s more of a cultural/ethnic connection, it’s a part of who I am -I am more akin to European Catholics who don’t get bent out of shape about catechism and the like
I think I am typical of many American Catholics, many of us are really cafeteria Catholics, we get irritated with the Pope, we pray for the unborn but think people have a right to choose life (or not), we see benefits to stem cell research - we hope that women will be priests in our lifetime and that all priests can marry but know it’s doubtful
the Catholic Church has mysteries and traditions that span the centuries and that’s what I love about it - the fact that it isn’t perfect, that we have done some really dumb things makes it that much more human to me - perfection is not found on Earth-even Luther found that out -
more recently, the Church has done some pretty horrific things that did not protect our children and ruined lives, and I always believed that arrests should have made of higher Church authorities for that - these things happen everywhere but other groups do the right thing and call the police which we should have done but did not - this time period caused me to consider leaving the Church but I just couldn’t let "management" disturb my faith so I stayed and found a parish that seeks forgiveness for what happened and is more left leaning (they are out there)
it has been researched that when people feel vulnerable, whether physically, emotionally or financially, they turn to what they believe is traditional - that is, fundamentalism - degradation of women, loss of freedom to make independent or personal decisions, strict adherence to rules that are meant to suppress free thinking - this can be found in any religion, including Christianity - it’s not the religion that’s at fault, it’s the people in "management" that decide "we must return to our fundamentals" as a way to stay-safe that is at fault - organized religion is about humanity and sometimes we really mess it up bad - but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater!
personally, I think the Buddhists have it right but I don’t have the inclination to convert - lol/smirk
Chips: I am responding here to your earlier post when you were talking of miracles and science. To me, science has opened up so many miracles and shed great light on our understanding of the movers and shakers of our world. Evolution itself is so complicated, beautiful, full of mysteries, and yes, full of what we could call miracles. I plant a tiny seed in the earth. Soon it becomes a flower, or a vegetable–-but it’s all explanatory, isn’t it? Enjoyed your post above. Re: Buddhism: One of the Dalai Lama’s arguments is that the Communists in China today are not Communist enough, as they ignore Marx’s ideas of ethics and equality (which the D.L. has long admired) and move ever further from purity and self-sacrifice of their early years. "Mao Zedong was a true idealist." he has said, "a real comrade, initially. But in ‘56, 57’, that disappeared. the result was that the Communist Party in China is a party without the Communist ideology. Maybe in some ways I’m more ‘red’ inside than the Chinese leadership." He has also said that Tibetan Buddhism might not survive.
This seems to be quite a touchy subject here. I mentioned this before - I am a practicing Episcopalian. I think however anyone believes is their business.
Is it me, or have some of the extreme Christian views of exclusivity made many of us all a bit on edge about faith?
I am a solitary pagan/wiccan/witch what ever people like to label it…and yes many have a lot of misconception about it so before you pass judgement spend the time yourself and learn the truth, not what you LEAD to believe….I live my life spiritually on a daily basis…I/we believe what you put out to the universe comes back to you 3 fold whether it be good or bad..you put bad out to the universe you get bad back, you put good out to the universe you get good back….and I/we believe in harm none by words, thoughts or deeds…so it’s a daily spritual pratice for me/us to live my life according to my beliefs each and everyday.
Have read some about your beliefs, made the most sense to me over any religion I have studied. I don’t have any creed of my own except to care for all as people.
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A dear friend, a pillar of the his Christian (granted, not fundamentalist) church always said he was sure had he been born in a different country, into a different culture, his faith would have been as strong, be it Hindu, Muslin, etc. I always appreciated his honesty and his counsel.
A wise friend and one who clearly understands that members of one religion should never impose their religion on others. Religious belief is a cultural attribute as much as anything else. But thank God (or goodness) that we were not born into the Shia sect in Afghanistan. A new law there will allow Shiite men to demand that their wives doll themselves up and have intercourse with them ON DEMAND:
You can read the article in today’s NY Times at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/world/asia/16afghan.html?ref=world but here is an extract from near the end:
Aren’t you glad you weren’t born into THAT particular religion and culture?
I read an article about that recently, as well. The one I read seemed to imply that this law was actually considered fairly progressive because there is a proviso that a man cannot neglect his husbandly duties either. He has a responsibility to have intercouse with his wife no less than, I think, once a month or something. I wish I still had the article so I could quote it more accurately. At any rate, I’m sure that makes the wives feel much better (she said sarcastically).
I just love reading the posts of the wonderful women here, and I appreciate the opinions of the women ‘of faith’, he wonderful thing about our melting pot country is that we are allowed to do ‘what works for us’ and yet we are exposed to the beauty of all interpretations of faith and increasing reasonings for lack thereof. We must strive to keep this freedom… just witness what is happening in fundamentalist countries, especially when it comes to the freedom of women.
I was raised as a very strict Catholic, 16 years of Catholic education, but I remember even as a child in Mass before school thinking " Come on, you don’t expect me to believe that " but I stayed with it. I loved singing the wonderful old holiday songs in Latin, still love them. There is something to say about rituals and traditions, makes us feel part of something, you know, security in numbers, "how can I NOT believe all this when everyone around me seems to ", BUT, I have a questioning personality, I want to know WHY, I want to read, think, wonder. Then the 60s happened, and I felt permission to think for myself, become part of a wider world, learn about Judaism, Buddhism, Atheism ( OMG it is OK NOT to believe !, is it possible? ) I think what finally drove me running was the guitars and Kumbaya … that is a joke, but it was at the time when I said ENOUGH !
But What DO I have ? I know the only thing that has ever given me goosbumps, made me feel one with the universe was music. With all the reading I do I’ve learned that music is really a mathetical expression and that the world around us is ruled by physics and math, that music is processed in a special part of the brain, it is what makes us connect it with emotions and memories. When I meditate to a Symphony, or listen to a Cello, or the special connection of a jazz combo, or hear that Motown song that reminds me of an old boyfriend, it gives me peace.
And a walk in the woods with my iPod set to my music choice of the day is much more spiritual than anything I ever felt in Church … well, maybe singing Panus Angelicus in the choir up in the choirloft at Christmas …. the ONLY thing I remember about Christmas in Church.
As so many have said above …. whatever works for you.
I was raised a Roman Catholic - Catholic schools from 1st through 12th grade - my uncle, now deceased, was a priest -
for me now, it’s more of a cultural/ethnic connection, it’s a part of who I am -I am more akin to European Catholics who don’t get bent out of shape about catechism and the like
I think I am typical of many American Catholics, many of us are really cafeteria Catholics, we get irritated with the Pope, we pray for the unborn but think people have a right to choose life (or not), we see benefits to stem cell research - we hope that women will be priests in our lifetime and that all priests can marry but know it’s doubtful
the Catholic Church has mysteries and traditions that span the centuries and that’s what I love about it - the fact that it isn’t perfect, that we have done some really dumb things makes it that much more human to me - perfection is not found on Earth-even Luther found that out -
more recently, the Church has done some pretty horrific things that did not protect our children and ruined lives, and I always believed that arrests should have made of higher Church authorities for that - these things happen everywhere but other groups do the right thing and call the police which we should have done but did not - this time period caused me to consider leaving the Church but I just couldn’t let "management" disturb my faith so I stayed and found a parish that seeks forgiveness for what happened and is more left leaning (they are out there)
it has been researched that when people feel vulnerable, whether physically, emotionally or financially, they turn to what they believe is traditional - that is, fundamentalism - degradation of women, loss of freedom to make independent or personal decisions, strict adherence to rules that are meant to suppress free thinking - this can be found in any religion, including Christianity - it’s not the religion that’s at fault, it’s the people in "management" that decide "we must return to our fundamentals" as a way to stay-safe that is at fault - organized religion is about humanity and sometimes we really mess it up bad - but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater!
personally, I think the Buddhists have it right but I don’t have the inclination to convert - lol/smirk
This seems to be quite a touchy subject here. I mentioned this before - I am a practicing Episcopalian. I think however anyone believes is their business.
Is it me, or have some of the extreme Christian views of exclusivity made many of us all a bit on edge about faith?