Conversation | 07/01/2009 11:00 pm
The wOw Conversation: Why Do People Put Up With Abuse?

JONI: Margo, you recently noticed this little comeuppance that you were so gracious to put on the Web. You had made a casual remark to a woman who had once been abused –
MARGO: Yes.
JONI: – and had started up with another abuser, and you wrote something along the lines of, “How could you do this twice?”
MARGO: I said, “What a slow learner.”
MARY: What did she do? What did she say?
MARGO: I got the most marvelous letter, and I’m still in touch with that woman. She was very well spoken, well educated, had come from a fine home, i.e., a privileged home, and she wound up in the shelter system in New York, getting away from an abusive husband. At first she said, “I was highly offended by that slow learner business.” She said, “Let me educate you.” She said, “What you live through is what you know, and if you’re abused as a kid you will go on to be an abuser. And then she told me her situation – how, because there was no other option, she was absolutely thrown back into the arms of her abusive husband, from whom she finally fled. And there was a question about her daughter, because she said the system in New York was broken, and she couldn’t get any help. Nobody was coming through. And I misunderstood something. I thought she was afraid for her daughter. I said, “Let me get you a lawyer in New York.” And she wrote back and said, “No, I’m done with the court system. That’s not the problem.” But we kept going and I thought I should say something, because I’m reasonably savvy dealing with people’s problems and also being 114 years old. The fact that I did not understand, really, the crux of the abuse situation embarrassed me, and I thought, “Look, if I don’t know, there are other people who don’t really get it.” And I owe this to the people who read me for information to go further with this. And I hope that wOw makes it their cause somehow.
| There’s a lot of anger in depression, and there’s a lot of mistreatment of people, and there’s also a lot of disinterest in people who are helping. |
MARY: I read somewhere recently that close to 70 percent of the women and about 50 percent of the men in the United States have had some sort of child abuse. Not necessarily physical, but the kind of abuse that you carry around with you like a backpack all your life.
MARGO: “You’re not good. You’re worthless.” I had a letter about that. A father was verbally abusing a little boy, grinding him down into nothing, and I told the mother she just had to get out.
MARY: I think there’s a lot more awareness of it now than there used to be, just as there’s greater awareness of clinical depression, and depression in general.
MARGO: Yes, Mary’s right. The figures are astounding. I read some of the same things and I couldn’t tell you exactly where, but the numbers are enormous.
MARY: One of the big issues in this article was why people don’t leave when they start with people they can see are going to have a very long road ahead with depression. There’s a lot of anger in depression, and there’s a lot of mistreatment of people, and there’s also a lot of disinterest in people who are helping. To know you’re going to have that all your life is frightening. And then there are all the people who are physically abused, and the big issue is: Why don’t they leave?























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L C. Thank you for your concern. The funny thing is I was a volunteer for batter childern and woman. I was raised in a very abusive house, I was raped by a step-uncle, and my stepfather would expose himself to me, when I would tell my mother she refused to believe it. I found out just recently that my stepfather raped his own twin daugthers (my half siblings). I couldn’t leave until I was sure my mother and the younger ones were okay.
It got to be too much on me and a few wks before graduating from high school, I got in touch with my father and he came and got and I never looked back. When my mother finally saw the light she left him, by this time I had my own place and was going to college.
my x didn’t show his true colors for a very long time, he is an acholoic and he had black outs like you wouldn’t believe. Out of 22 yrs of marriage he was gone10 yrs on overseas duty, he was a marine. after his last tour he got orders out of state, I couldn’t leave my job at the pentagon and the children were well established in school, it wouldn’t have been good for any of us. I had no idea at that time but he had 3 mistress and none knew about the others, at least not until I found out and informed them and provided proof.
He was a lousy husband and father, he didn’t realize all he’d missed when the children were little, and all his empty promises came back and bit him in the butt. when he got out of the Corp he went to school to become a drug and acholoic counsler. Ironic that a drunk gets sober and then treats others for his disease.
After 911 I was told by my doctors that I could no longer work, but there was no way I was going to move with him and be abused ever again.
he learned from his mistakes, and he’s working overtime to make it up to the kids, but that’s between them and him. he bends over backwards to help them, I kept trying to tell him after every missed Girl Scout father daughter dance that some day he’d be sorry.
my father was not allowed to see us, and i didn’t want that for my children, i just wanted them to have a better childhood then mine. They knew nothing about our troubles, if we fought it wasn’t around the kids, and when I’d get a bruse I’d say I fell, which was very believeable because I’m always triping and breaking something.
I’ve taken my mistakes and I use them to help others now. Knowledge/experience are the best teachers a person can have.
I’ve seen him 2 times in the last seven yrs, and it really sucked to be around him. I started over, but I’ll never have my own home again, a place where my childen can visit, they have to stay at a hotel when they are here.
Deniseann Yaylor
You’re free!
You made it out alive! … Lots of people do not have homes. I live in an apartment. Your home is where your heart is. Do you enjoy being in your home? … Do you find peace there? …Is it a reflection of who you?
Your family and friends are happy just to be in your presence. Having a house or an apartment is of no importance. It’s the spirit that dwells within.
You have your life ahead of you. Enjoy!
My cousin, Mary Babb, was murdered by her husband in January, 2007. We found out afterwards that, even though she was terrified of him and what he might do to her, even though he had beaten and raped her, even though she was afraid he would take their son from her, SHE STILL LOVED HIM. She really did, and believed he loved her as well.
In Michigan, where she died, my step-mother (her aunt) and her family worked with Rep. Bill Caul to pass Mary’s Law, which allows judges the discretion to order a GPS tracking device be placed on an abuser as a condition of bailing out of jail or with an order of protection. It creates some safe zones around the victim—like her workplace or school and home—and if he violates the zone, sends her an alert via pager or cell phone, so she can have a plan. Already Michigan is hopeful that the law is working—it will have been in place for a year this month.
I recently succeeded in getting the same legislation passed in Texas, with the help of the Women’s Shelter of South Texas in Corpus Christi, and thanks to Rep. Abel Herrero, who sponsored the bill and has been our champion all the way through the legislative process. The good news is that this is a slowly growing movement in the US; Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Massachusetts (the 1st state to pass this legislation), Oklahoma and now Texas have laws in place (there are more states; Texas is #13 to pass it). Bills are progressing in California and Wisconsin (that I am sure of) and I learned this morning that New York introduced legislation very recently, and it is being debated.
So often women feel the justice system lets them down because the penalties for violating an order of protection are not very severe, and because—let’s face it—a piece of paper will NOT stop a bullet if your abuser is intent on killing or injuring you. It would be an amazing step forward if wOw took up the cause!
Vickie Sedillo
You are honoring your cousin and all persons in abusive relationships by sharing information and working on their behalf to get legislation passed.
"What you live through is what you know, and if you’re abused as a kid you will go on to be an abuser."
Like LC, I have somewhat extensive knowledge of domestic violence and abuse…and I have to say, sorry, but that is just a BS statement. Just because this was this woman’s experience, that does not make it true for everyone or even a majority! It depends on the victim; I’ve known a number of people who were abused in various ways (physically, emotionally and/or sexually), and a majority of them have used their own terrible experience to grow into kinder, more emphatic people — not abusers! That statement is absurd and offensive, as it assumes that we have no control over our own destinies, and that all abused people will end up being abusive. It is more offensive as many of the people I know are still scarred and struggling to put the pieces of their own lives together — but they’ll be the first to help someone or something in pain! As someone who greatly enjoys your words of wisdom, I’m disappointed that you saw fit to quote that without some sort of balance to that woman’s narrow perception, Margo, because it’s just not true.
Thank you Rachel! I too was writing a reply to the remark on this comment, when your reply appeared. I could not delay my "YES!, thanks for saying so".
I also found this to be offensive, absurd, and erroneous. Unfortunately, it is also something I have heard before when speaking to groups of women who were abused as children…. And even from professionals working with victims…maddening, and sad.
Survive and Thrive :) !
Catrona, I’m very glad to see that I wasn’t the only who noticed that!
"Survive and Thrive :) "
Couldn’t have said it better myself — thank you, and have a great weekend!
Rachel F
After reading the article I saw this as an opportunity to post factual information about Domestic Violence free of societal mythology and generalizations.
There are as many reasons for someone to stay in an abusive relationship as there are abusive relationships. It isn’t a black/white situation.
I agree with the poster who wrote ‘Abuse can be an insidious creature that slowly creeps up on you without you even realizing it until you find yourself in the middle of an abusive relationship and getting out is not always as easy as packing your bags and leaving, not when there are children involved or limited economic resources ‘
It’s too easy to be the frog in the pot of water. Swimming around contentedly, thinking everything is fine until - - - Oh my heavens! This water is boiling!!
I’ve seen it and heard it too often. I feel it partially mirrors the stages of grief.
Denial
"This isn’t the way s/he really is"
"I know the real person"
Bargaining
"It was my fault. If I hadn’t …"
"Maybe if I was more … "
"Maybe if I did something differently"
Anger
Passive-Agressive
Confrontation (almost always makes it worse)
Sadness
Why is this happening to me?
Depression
Uncontrollable crying
feelings of hopelessness, etc
Ending in Acceptance?
Is this all there is?
Or Rejection?
I don’t have to put up with it.
It can take a long time to get to rejection. After all, who wants to give up? The thing that gets me is that the folks who care most about commitment are the ones who get hurt the most by these relationships. It’s not like you’re breaking up because they didn’t make enough money or got fat or you wanted to have sex with other people or they didn’t like skiing as much as you. The folks who will get a divorce for these reasons will have no problem getting out of an abusive relationship. (and yes, these are all real-world examples). It’s the people who believe in commitment, who believe in ‘for better and for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer and for poorer’ who end up getting the raw end of the deal.
catherine bridges
There are as many reasons for someone to stay in an abusive relationship as there are abusive relationships. It isn’t a black/white situation. (your words)
While many persons remain in abusive relationships for many reasons. There are many services available to those who have made a decison to leave. It is better to leave an abusive relationship rather than stay for the children. It is not healthy for children to live in this type of environment. In studies it’s been found that children raised in abusive environments are likely to abuse( generational repeated behaviors.) Many remain for economic reasons. What good is money if you are not alive to spend it?
I believe you meant that there are many different reasons why people stay in abusive relationships. These reasons are as varied as the number of relationships. I believe by the frog in the pot analogy you are saying many people are in or have been in abusive relationships without realizing it. In some of these cases the abuse has been so subtle.
It’s the people who believe in commitment, who believe in "for better and for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer and for poorer" who end up getting the raw end of the deal. (your words)
Often religion and culture play important roles. Those abused in some cases are encouraged by clergy, family and community to remain in abusive relationships especially in religious communitieS. They’re told "God" will work it out. There is a growing number of clergy who are edcating themselves and confronting those who abuse.
During the 1980’s, James Gilligan, a psychiatrist, was in charge of mental health services in the Massachusetts prisons, where he conducted thousands of therapeutic consultations with homicidal inmates and repeated spouse/child abusers. He soon came to realize that they were especially likely to harm or kill or seriously abuse someone when they felt insulted or humiliated. What these men seemed to fear most were feelings of weakness and shame ––wasn’t Joni the one who used that word in the discussion above?–––the shame of being seen as inadequate or contemptible––and they struck back violently against anyone who set off those feelings, whether it was a sarcastic, unfaithful girlfriend or a rival drug dealer attempting to impinge on their turf. Many killers told Gilligan that the fear they saw in their victim’s eyes made them feel powerful and respected, reinforcing a "tough" self image and seeming to justify aggressive reactions to any sign of disrespect, however minor or unintended.
Then there is the work of anthropologist, Ruth Benedict, who classified cultures as being preoccupied predominantly with, on the one hand, notions of honor and shame or, on the other, notions of pride and guilt. While guilt and shame have much in common, she argued, they have different implications for culture and behavior. Guilt, the sense that you have done something wrong and should feel bad about it whether others know or not, tends to lead to private turmoil. But shame implies awareness of the contempt of others, and therefore has potentially greater implications for relationships. Pride, like guilt, is an internal feeling of accomplishment, whereas a sense of honor, like shame, depends on the attitudes of others toward oneself.
In my work with troubled families I found parents that were abusive to their children had been abused in the same way by their parents––in a strange way by punishing their children they were punishing their parents––it’s called payback. "The delicious feeling"––as one parent described it––"of getting back at all the shit I was handed."
Phyllis Doyle Pepe
I am appreciative of the information and stories being exchanged. This has been an opportunity to replace myths by providing factual information.