Conversation | 07/01/2009 11:00 pm

The wOw Conversation: Why Do People Put Up With Abuse?

Margo Howard joins Joni Evans, Mary Wells and Joan Juliet Buck to dissect the mystery of abuse and the psychology of the abused.

With Joan Juliet Buck, Joni Evans, Margo Howard and Mary Wells

JONI: Margo, you recently noticed this little comeuppance that you were so gracious to put on the Web. You had made a casual remark to a woman who had once been abused –

MARGO: Yes.

JONI: – and had started up with another abuser, and you wrote something along the lines of, “How could you do this twice?”

MARGO: I said, “What a slow learner.”

MARY: What did she do? What did she say?

MARGO: I got the most marvelous letter, and I’m still in touch with that woman. She was very well spoken, well educated, had come from a fine home, i.e., a privileged home, and she wound up in the shelter system in New York, getting away from an abusive husband. At first she said, “I was highly offended by that slow learner business.” She said, “Let me educate you.” She said, “What you live through is what you know, and if you’re abused as a kid you will go on to be an abuser. And then she told me her situation – how, because there was no other option, she was absolutely thrown back into the arms of her abusive husband, from whom she finally fled. And there was a question about her daughter, because she said the system in New York was broken, and she couldn’t get any help. Nobody was coming through. And I misunderstood something. I thought she was afraid for her daughter. I said, “Let me get you a lawyer in New York.” And she wrote back and said, “No, I’m done with the court system. That’s not the problem.” But we kept going and I thought I should say something, because I’m reasonably savvy dealing with people’s problems and also being 114 years old. The fact that I did not understand, really, the crux of the abuse situation embarrassed me, and I thought, “Look, if I don’t know, there are other people who don’t really get it.” And I owe this to the people who read me for information to go further with this. And I hope that wOw makes it their cause somehow.

There’s a lot of anger in depression, and there’s a lot of mistreatment of people, and there’s also a lot of disinterest in people who are helping.

MARY: I read somewhere recently that close to 70 percent of the women and about 50 percent of the men in the United States have had some sort of child abuse. Not necessarily physical, but the kind of abuse that you carry around with you like a backpack all your life.

MARGO: “You’re not good. You’re worthless.” I had a letter about that. A father was verbally abusing a little boy, grinding him down into nothing, and I told the mother she just had to get out.

MARY: I think there’s a lot more awareness of it now than there used to be, just as there’s greater awareness of clinical depression, and depression in general.

MARGO: Yes, Mary’s right. The figures are astounding. I read some of the same things and I couldn’t tell you exactly where, but the numbers are enormous.

MARY: One of the big issues in this article was why people don’t leave when they start with people they can see are going to have a very long road ahead with depression. There’s a lot of anger in depression, and there’s a lot of mistreatment of people, and there’s also a lot of disinterest in people who are helping. To know you’re going to have that all your life is frightening. And then there are all the people who are physically abused, and the big issue is: Why don’t they leave?

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I was raised in a very loving home with parents who were PARTNERS. There was love and respect and yes disagreements but nothing that was physical or mentally abusive. My parents never went to bed angery and that led to many all nighters because they both were stubborn but the worked things out without belittling each other.

My Mother, may the Goddess hold her soul close, lived a wild teen life and warned me of what dangers lthat could lay ahead. My father, may the Goddess also hold his soul, fearing that I may end up in danger kept me as safe as he felt he could. Which I see now was more isolation but I was HAPPY with my home life.

Yet I still married a man who was/is an abuser. It took me 15 years and meeting a man who reminded me of the relationship & partnership that my parents had.

Not everyone who is ends up in an abusive relationship came from an abusive home yes it is more frequent but not all are from bad or broken homes.

I lived with him for two years and I thought I knew him, he wasn’t abusive during those two years before we were married. Instantly after the wedding, that night in fact, he changed. First it was the small comments of not knowing how to cook or telling me I washed something wrong then moved into harsher comments in front of the few friends that still showed up to visit. Why didn’t I leave then? I had no job, was ashamed that I had judged so wrong and had two small kids (2 years and 1 year) I didn’t know where to turn and I was dealing with the grief of losing my father and then 7 years later my mother.

Daily things escalated verbally till the beatings started. His excuse..he was stressed about fiances. And me being too scared to leave not knowing where to go, stayed. Add in he was 10 years older then me, he had me believing that he knew better then I did.

I tried going to school, but he made sure I missed enough that I failed, though of course it was my fault because I had lost my license. Things went on for 15 years until he threatened the kids. Then in the middle of the night while he was working 3rd shift I packed and left. Taking everthing that was the kids and leaving most of my things. Because THINGS can be replaced, lives can not. It’s not been a year and the kids and I are in therapy. And becoming happier then we have been. But a day doesn’t go by that he doesn’t try to worm his way back in.

As I said before lucky for me I met a man who loves me, respects me, supports me, and is standing by me reminding me daily that I AM a beautiful, smart, wonderful, loving woman who DESERVES to be happy. Along with the friends that stuck with me during those times.

I’m sorry I rambled on but I wanted to point out, that some of us who end up in abusive relationships did not see that abuse in our childhood homes. And once in that type of relationship feel helpless and ashamed and afraid to get out, being with the devil you know, at times, is better then going out to the devil you don’t know.

Me I am still working on how I didn’t see the signs that everyone else did.

Today my soon to be ex-husband will be served with the divorce papers and I have braced myself for the next battle of wills, one this time I am going to win.

By DJ Dirr on 07/02/2009 2:32 pm

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Dj Dirr

Thank you, for sharing your post. I was moved deeply by your story. You are not rambling. You are sharing your story. A story which will give others who are in abusive relationships the courage to leave. I am glad to learn things are going well for you. Be gentle with yourself. You are a strong, wonderful, loving and brave woman! … Yes, you deserve the very best life has to offer.

By L. C. on 07/02/2009 10:17 pm

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Thank you DJ for making the point that being abused/not abused as a child does not guarantee how you will be in the future. My Dad came from a home with two parents that were alcoholics. My grandfather was very abusive, but not once has my Dad laid a hand on me (except for the occasional swat on the butt when I was being a brat) nor was he ever emotionally abusive. He moved out of my grandparents home when he was 16, finished High School while living in a friends basement, and joined the Navy when he graduated. He put himself through an electronics school and gave his family a nice life.

Unfortunately, his brother turned out differently. He turned to drugs and we’ll never know if he would have turned out to be an abusive person like my grandfather because he overdosed on heroine at the age of 27. He was my only uncle but I never got to meet him.

Adversity affects people in many different ways. Having never been abused or in an abusive relationship, I can’t say I understand those that stay. But I also can’t say for sure how I would react in that situation and I don’t think anyone who’s never been there can say for sure. But those that are have my sympathy.

Good luck, DJ, it sounds like you are on the right path. I will pray for you.

By Carrie Auger on 07/02/2009 3:18 pm

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Carrie,

Thank you for the support and prayers. Sometimes just a few words can mean so much.

By DJ Dirr on 07/02/2009 9:03 pm

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DJ, I’ll pray for you too. Be brave and be safe! You really are doing the right thing.

By Vickie Sedillo on 07/02/2009 10:32 pm

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Excellent posts. I have nothing to add except… donate the things you have outgrown or don’t need anymore to your local women’s shelter.

By Dawn Smith on 07/02/2009 4:30 pm

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I haven’t read all the posts. but once I do i’ll be a find a myriad of people who’ve been abused. It doesn’t just happen to those who were abused as children, nor poor people, nor people who were raised without any self esteem or confidence.

It happens to people from all walks of life and backgrounds. what the discussion doesn’t address (the wow ladies discussion) is how incredibly good at what they do these abusers can be. Whether they are women or men. They are excellent at finding the right buttons to push. Whether it’s "i’ll take the kids" or "i’ll track you down and kill you" or much subtle things. Like over a period of years getting someone to absolutely believe they are worthless.

I’ve known people that were absolutely convinced they could not leave an abusive relationship. these were people with money and resources and some self esteem! it’s a complex thing. I mean really…. even the poorest of people COULD LEAVE if they chose to. they could go to a shelter. they could live in a tent alone. they could leave. leaving has much more to do with the psychology of the relationship and teh individuals than anything else.

By Chrome Toe on 07/02/2009 6:52 pm

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Chrome Toe

Please read my post. I’ve provided detailed information. I’m certain it will be most helpful .

By L. C. on 07/03/2009 12:21 am

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Here’s the real heartbreaker. I finally managed to leave my abusive ex-husband when my sons were 7 and 5, and my daughter was 2 1/2. I left after he assaulted me when I was changing her diaper.

My oldest son became involved with a girl who grew up in an abusive family, and he is now her batterer. They have a young son. I am powerless to intervene, because she denies the abuse is happening. My other son has problems with drugs, alcohol and relationships.

My daughter feel into a relationship with a cute, charming young man, who gradually separated her from her family and friends. Things went from bad to worse after my granddaughter was born, and I had to step in and call social services to protect the baby, who was removed from the home.

It got even worse after that, and I was blamed for all of the trouble they were having. The young man nearly killed my daughter on two occasions — that I know about.

It just doesn’t stop. But I don’t need someone to blame me for winding up with an abuser, and she certainly doesn’t either.

Maybe that’s why she come home to me, and is reunited with her baby, who lives here too. She knew I couldn’t/wouldn’t judge or blame her. She and baby are safe, as a**hole is on the way to the big house for other crimes, and I can finally sleep at night.

By Dee L on 07/02/2009 7:27 pm

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Dee Langston

Please read my post. I’m certain it will be most helpful.

I"m glad to learn your daughter is out of that abusive relationship. I hope both of your sons will get the help they need.

By L. C. on 07/03/2009 12:28 am

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I have observed from around the world:

(1) Abusers have a knack for identifying a vulnerability and using it to control the other person. Something like setting up situations to hurt another innocent person the abused does not want hurt, revealing something humiliating, threatening an insecure livelihood, or whatever it might be.

(2) Abusers, because they are so intrinsically dishonest, are often gifted at presenting not only a face of normalcy to the world, but often a face exactly opposite to what the abused experiences in private. They have a knack for couching things in terms difficult for the abused to overcome, so the abused is often the one who comes out looking like the one who is off base. Abusers may have degrees, titles, or positions that represent the opposite of their private behavior. This confuses not only the world, but initially, the abused. They may use their stature as a bully pulpit to convince the abused that they are the ones who are wrong.

(3) Abusers may try to goad the abused into reacting to them in a way that makes the abused look bad to others, who are kept from knowing the actual situation and what has gone into it.

(4) Abusers may use the good qualities of the abused against them.

(5) Mothers often bring their sons up as abusers. A harsh fact, but I have seen it over and over. Many mothers seem to deep down equate dominance with male sexuality, and overtly or subtly encourage that behavior in their sons, taking pride in their "manly" sons and seeming to look for something in that relationship that they are missing or wanting in their own sex lives. I wish I had not witnessed this so many times in such varied cultures and circumstances.

(6) Abused people are not slow learners. Their minds have been messed over something like brainwashing. The mental context of their world has been altered, which is what the dominance is for. Fear is used to keep them from breaking out and finding out the truth. If there has been no background to give them contrasting information, this is not difficult to do. All reason is based on predicate. Change the predicate, and the conclusion changes, so erroneous thinking is not hard to accomplish.

(7) Someone to confide in and help is the main key, but also, for each abused person to learn to identify what they are "protecting" by not doing so, and what their options are.

By Joly Joly on 07/02/2009 7:45 pm

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Joly Joly

Please read my post. I’m certain will be most helpful.

By L. C. on 07/03/2009 12:31 am

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A lot of abusers are devastatingly charming. They have the ability to make people like them - which is why they can get away with abusing their families. No one wants to believe that their neighbor beats their kid(s) bloody on a regular basis - they’d sooner deal with the facade than the reality.

My father was like that. He was good-looking, smart, a pillar of the community. If something was going on, he was there. He coached basketball and softball when I was on the teams and made a special point of taking everyone out for ice cream after games. He never said a word to me about my (admittedly) complete lack of athletic talent….until we got home. THEN I got to hear all about it.

I told two people about the abuse (And by the way, I was the only one being physically abused. He never touched my mother or sibs.) The first was a priest. I showed him the bruises and begged for help. I was eleven years old. He told me I should "strive to be more obedient" and called my father the instant I left the office. The second was a school guidance counselor. HE called me a liar and phoned my father while I was in the office and told him everything. The beating I got from that experience left me with cracked ribs, bruised kidneys and massive cuts on the inside of my mouth (I had braces at the time).

Through all of this, everyone loved him. I had nowhere to turn. Even now, twelve years after his death, people are still offering "condolences" and treacly sentiment. Even those who know better.

By Messy ONE on 07/07/2009 11:01 am

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"(2) Abusers, because they are so intrinsically dishonest, are often gifted at presenting not only a face of normalcy to the world, but often a face exactly opposite to what the abused experiences in private."

Joly when I read this it really hit home for me. That is how my life was. When we were court ordered for family therapy because of problems my son was having in school, he was able to tell the therapist EXACTLY what they wanted to hear and ensured that he, the consular, believed that I had done everything to lead and teach my son what he was doing wrong. The worse part of this was that it was a court appointed consular who’s program was based on the belief that the man/husband ruled the home with absolute authority while the woman/wife just did as she was told. Totally re-enforcing what the soon to be X felt he was doing right. Needless to say when the judge heard the program we were pulled from it and enlisted in another one. This time the X couldn’t pull the wool over their eyes, which of course he blamed them for not being trained well enough.

But I digress, yes the abuser shows a different face to the world then the one he really has. Often when asked about bruises before I could answer he would say that I was such a klutz that without him I would end up in the morgue from my carelessness. Abusers are very much they are Mr. Jekyll/Mr. Hide.

By DJ Dirr on 07/02/2009 8:59 pm

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Once you have made your decision to leave there are specifics you must put in place. The place you will live, the date of departure(Sometimes this is not even known to you. You leave when the time presents itself.) What mode of transportation? Have you arranged transportation? Is there a safe place you can keep them? Is there someone or an organization assisting you? Here are the documents you will need.

Birth certificates for you and your children … Insurance policies

Marriage certificate … Medical records … Childrens vaccination records

Dental records for you and your children … Passports for you and your children …

Prescriptions for any medications you and your children take. (if possible, try to stock up.)

Eyeglasses or hearing aid devices/information … School records for the children

Social security cards (or numbers) for you and the children … Spare keys to the house, garage, car, etc.

Title to the car … Copy of your most recent credit report (call your local credit bureau)

Copy of any personal phone books

Anything you may have on computer disks (be sure to check the hard drive)

It is important you save as much money as possible.

Marriage certificate

By L. C. on 07/03/2009 12:07 am