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Conversation | 07/01/2009 11:00 pm

The wOw Conversation: Why Do People Put Up With Abuse?

Margo Howard joins Joni Evans, Mary Wells and Joan Juliet Buck to dissect the mystery of abuse and the psychology of the abused.
© Shutterstock

JONI: Margo, you recently noticed this little comeuppance that you were so gracious to put on the Web. You had made a casual remark to a woman who had once been abused

MARGO: Yes.

JONI: – and had started up with another abuser, and you wrote something along the lines of, “How could you do this twice?”

MARGO: I said, “What a slow learner.”

MARY: What did she do? What did she say?

MARGO: I got the most marvelous letter, and I’m still in touch with that woman. She was very well spoken, well educated, had come from a fine home, i.e., a privileged home, and she wound up in the shelter system in New York, getting away from an abusive husband. At first she said, “I was highly offended by that slow learner business.” She said, “Let me educate you.” She said, “What you live through is what you know, and if you’re abused as a kid you will go on to be an abuser. And then she told me her situation – how, because there was no other option, she was absolutely thrown back into the arms of her abusive husband, from whom she finally fled. And there was a question about her daughter, because she said the system in New York was broken, and she couldn’t get any help. Nobody was coming through. And I misunderstood something. I thought she was afraid for her daughter. I said, “Let me get you a lawyer in New York.” And she wrote back and said, “No, I’m done with the court system. That’s not the problem.” But we kept going and I thought I should say something, because I’m reasonably savvy dealing with people’s problems and also being 114 years old. The fact that I did not understand, really, the crux of the abuse situation embarrassed me, and I thought, “Look, if I don’t know, there are other people who don’t really get it.” And I owe this to the people who read me for information to go further with this. And I hope that wOw makes it their cause somehow.

There’s a lot of anger in depression, and there’s a lot of mistreatment of people, and there’s also a lot of disinterest in people who are helping.

MARY: I read somewhere recently that close to 70 percent of the women and about 50 percent of the men in the United States have had some sort of child abuse. Not necessarily physical, but the kind of abuse that you carry around with you like a backpack all your life.

MARGO: “You’re not good. You’re worthless.” I had a letter about that. A father was verbally abusing a little boy, grinding him down into nothing, and I told the mother she just had to get out.

MARY: I think there’s a lot more awareness of it now than there used to be, just as there’s greater awareness of clinical depression, and depression in general.

MARGO: Yes, Mary’s right. The figures are astounding. I read some of the same things and I couldn’t tell you exactly where, but the numbers are enormous.

MARY: One of the big issues in this article was why people don’t leave when they start with people they can see are going to have a very long road ahead with depression. There’s a lot of anger in depression, and there’s a lot of mistreatment of people, and there’s also a lot of disinterest in people who are helping. To know you’re going to have that all your life is frightening. And then there are all the people who are physically abused, and the big issue is: Why don’t they leave?

123 Reader Comments (so far…) Sign In or Register to comment

K M

What can I do to help someone who is being abused by his girlfriend?  I feel helpless when he calls me to tell me how he is going to take his own life because he can’t live like that.

He’s over 6 feet tall and weighs about 170 pounds and she is a tiny little thing that is about 5’2" and weighs maybe 100 pounds. He will not hit her back. He will not yell back at her. He refuses to even defend himself against her physical blows for fear that he might hurt her. 

He takes what she says to him about how worthless he is and what a horrible person he is as ‘truth,’ yet he is brilliant and making very good grades in college, while working full time as well. He is far, far from a ‘looser’ that she screams at him that he is. I’ve been on the phone with him when he was crying and heard some of the abuse.

He was in counseling for a while and actually had left her, but he is back with her again.  All I do is listen and tell him I love him and I’m here for him but he needs real help.  I feel so helpless.

By K M on 07/06/2009 1:49 pm
Mary Courtney

Hi KM,

Why do people put up with abuse-??? Many (and I would reckon’ most) don’t want abuse as some believe-and often don’t see it coming. I know few people who want to be miserable and death oriented when they can be happy. A lot of the Psych stuff out there doesn’t address all the issues. Jeffrey shared some good insights…but the reality as some have shared and as in my case…..you don’t see it coming.

I read a few of these posts earlier in the week and just got back on reading yours. There is ALWAYS HOPE AND A WAY OUT-I am a living testimony. I (unlike what some counselors categorize) grew up in a sweet home with a Mom who never allowed name calling/abuse, swearing etc. but expected respect for everyone. I was looking for a dear friend in a marriage partner to spend my life with and thought the man I first married was healthy, kind and loved me. In retrospect-he was overly attentive/doting, controlling and medicated with a residual pot habit (since his teens). He had no father and was locked in the hip to his mother (which early on I thought was a wonderful love he had). I took his constant attention as "love"-learning later that it was something else.

Contrary to many psychological teachings-I believe that DV situations are more complex and that people from many walks of life and backgrounds can find themselves like "the frog in the pot" in situations they did not want. Today my present marriage & life is peace filled and I don’t listen to the verbal insanity of an unhealthy person telling me I’m worthless and better off dead. Looking back-it really is insane that I lived through that season- and could be "stuck" in such a nutcase situation thinking I had no way out. Constant threats often make it harder and when there are children it creates an even tougher situation. If one hasn’t been through this with a "crazy making " person its hard to describe. I remember being in "shock" the first time "he went bonkers on me". I could hardly breath and I felt stunned-I remember that I also couldn’t even move after his raging. I felt terror. He had been so loving and doting years before our marriage and my first pregnancy. I just hardly knew how to respond. I did ultimately go to a relative in law enforcement who told him to never touch me again (grabbing and shoving). This moved him into using verbal gymnastics instead- for control. Gratefully, my relative’s warnings probably kept me from other things that would have destroyed me. But-the verbal hatred is horrid in itself.

I too, knew a man who was in a similar situation as you share with the woman as the abuser-the case is more often that men are the abusers but it can happen with women. In that situation, the abusive wife (who had 4 kids as well), ended up very ill which took her maniac activity away from the family.

Each person living in a high drama* addictive* perverted relationship has to find their own way out. Family and relatives can call the cops/provide a safe house/encourage the loved one towards peace and health by getting away-but ultimately the individual has to make the move. Sadly-the abuser wears down the person into such a weakened emotional (or physical) state that they can’t see or think clearly. There is also this "Evil component" that I’ve seen working with others that is palpable and oriented towards death (murder & suicide-as you see with your friend). Until the person gets away to a healthy Safe Haven for awhile-they cant think straight or get back to seeing the Light. One relative who had been through what I was living in kept telling me that there was hope and life after it all….and she has a great sweetheart who loves her today. Her witness to me was a strong factor in getting away. I also believe that "false teachings" on divorce (Jeff’s religion comments) are real as well. Some churches put a sick spin on marriage/men & women. Jesus always spoke of mutual submission and men laying their lives down for their wives-not taught enough. And I must say that it was the real JESUS that kept me through those dark days. I’m grateful for HIS love.

Eventually- in my case-after a "monstrous night" of awakening to addictive degradations-I called a lawyer. We begged him (my kids Dad) to go & commit to counseling for the sake of saving our family-but he ran to his bachelorhood and musician life style. Of course I wish that the healing of our family would have been possible-but you can’t make the horse drink when led to water. Anger Mgmt classes have helped those who have "no impulse control-and live in fear" to make some real changes-but again-the abuser has to want to heal & change. I made it through as a single Mom and today am living happily ever after-very strong and healed. I have a Dear Husband whose love towards me is beyond words. We have a mature loving marriage and are grateful everyday for each other. He is a humble man, loves God (truly) and is committed to me & our children. I remember the first night he took my hand and prayed for our kids—I wept deeply to have a husband who was clean/clear and not filled with bitterness.

There is life and HOPE

 

By Mary Courtney on 07/07/2009 12:58 pm
Laura Ward

In Allegra Huston’s book, "Love Child," she talked about her sister’s (Angelica Huston) abuse by Ryan O’Neal. Also, Ryan got angry when Allegra didn’t get his tomato soup ready and was going to beat her up for that. Ryan’s children, Tatum and Griffin (according to Tatum’s book and according to the media when Griffin lost his front teeth) also suffered mishaps. You’d think that someone like Angelica Huston would never take that kind of abuse. But she did. This is not in a low-income household, but it is in a household where one is making the most money, thereby having the most control. Tatum didn’t get her money until she was of age.

By Laura Ward on 07/08/2009 2:53 am
Dana Pulley

Abuse knows no boundaries, as Margo discovered. There are so many types of abuse though; mental, physical, emotional, psychological, sexual, and more. Whatever abuse you suffer, it is hard to leave the abuser. Education about this matter is key to ending it, yet it’ll never truly go away. There are too many contributing factors, such as alcohol/drug abuse, social and economic pressures, and quite often, mental illness. 

By Dana Pulley on 07/08/2009 10:45 am
Mary Courtney

Thanks, Dana for the mental illness comment….it is so true. And with all the drugs people use, the brain gets chemically messed up. Add to it woundedness, no coping skills and one is left with a Hurricane. I believe after all these years that in the complexity of my first husband’s abuse that he may have had bi-polar or some other chemical dis-order.  Many don’t have the tools or background to know how to deal with their anger and frustration.

Angelica H. is a perfect example that deflates the theories about "weak women". I can’t believe that I lived through my experience-yet it has given me great insights today.

On Ryan O’Neal…somebody get that guy into a program before he destroys another woman!

By Mary Courtney on 07/08/2009 12:01 pm
Anne Senk
I disagree with the comment, "what you live through is what you know, and if you are abused as a kid, you will go on to be an abuser."  That only happens when people don’t face what happened to them honestly, and then pretend that nothing was wrong.  How many people have lived through child abuse, but as they grew up, sought therapy and healing, and then were able to not repeat the "cycle of abuse"?  I suppose some people feel trapped by the "failings of the system", but doesn’t it seem like if they really wanted to change things, that they would?  How many stories are out there about people who had tremendous courage, and went "underground", and disappeared with their children and built new lives.
By Anne Senk on 07/08/2009 12:07 pm
Mary Courtney

It’s easy at this point in my own life to speak of healing and hope because I’m out of it and have been set free. When people are deep within— it’s so consuming, hopeless, blinding, sorrowful, nightmarish and scarey.

I just pray for each one still suffering-May the Lord help you to be set free in the way that you should go as God Almighty counsels you with His loving arms. Take courage-get a plan and as much support as you can have and be safe, wise and shrewd in your escape. It is a dangerous endeavor as many know. More churches are waking up (since they lived in the dark ages for so long) and have counselors on staff that are privy to giving assist-but you have to be careful-because some are still in the land of nod. It’s so difficult-keep tight with God on this deal and seek His wisdom. He wants you to be the Woman He created you to be-at Peace and fully LOVED

By Mary Courtney on 07/09/2009 12:53 am
Freida Rowland

I want to talk about another form of abuse. Strangers burning down your home and killing your 10 year old loving pet and companion to a 71 year old woman who has fought to save her home and even went to jail and spent 29 days.  She stood up to the corrupt politicans of this town, now she is homeless. She has been abused by these guys, the mental anguish at the hands of these arrognant crooks.  She did nothing wrong to warrant this attack, someone wanted to teach her and other senior citizens not to mess with this town. Suppose to be a good retirement community, but things have changed for the worse if you are over 60 and vunerable.  Where are the good guys when you need them. 

Local newspaper picked up only half truths,  As I was told months ago,the truth cannot be told or they would be fired.  So much for truth and justice. Her story can be read on her web site clampitt4senate.com.

This is one story too many.   She is afraid and alone  

By Freida Rowland on 07/09/2009 9:42 am
Mary Courtney

Thanks for sharing this story about women and Elder abuse, Frieda. I run a care biz today and work with the vulnerable, sick, disabled and dying. So many of these dear ones have no advocate in a world where $$’s, power, beauty and brawn rule the day.

Elder abuse is on the rise with the aging population. I just got out of a couple situations where clients have died and I had to oversee the horror of greed. A lot of neglect and manipulation goes on behind closed doors as well. We are all moving in this direction as we age and our bodies and memories decline. It’s a huge wake up call.

How we need more honor, integrity, personal accountability and those who are "True". It’s all lessons….and as I’ve shared on other sites-it’s begins with each of us one by one in our own handlings of life and those who are frail around us. 

By Mary Courtney on 07/09/2009 10:45 am
Ms. Dee

So many horror stories.  I won’t add mine.  But once you become aware that kindness itself can be used to manipulate some sort of heirarchy within a partnership, walk away.  It’s a sad realization, but it’s everywhere.  Our culture is abusive…to the sick, the elderly, the unemployed, the "lowly-born".  We ignore the signs of self-destruction.  I worry that equality is the real myth, and that all our striving for dignity is little more than a ploy for supremacy.  And it goes on to some degree in every bedroom on the face of the earth…and spreads from there.

How can we be the change we want to see in the world, once we’re too afraid to love?

By Ms. Dee on 07/09/2009 3:39 pm
Mary Courtney

Wow…and again wow…Ms Dee.

What a question you pose, my dear. I had to take the risk again to LOVE and it paid off in my dear marriage today-with a sweet, humble & kind man. I think I needed more discernment and didn’t get the training to watch for some of the signs in cunning people who were users. But I also feel that God uses even those "bad" things for the good-if we are willing to reflect, look at ourselves and walk forward. It seems odd to our natural thinking-but it’s the harsh things of life that often cause us to grow. I’ve learned to be more discreet and careful with new relationships-but sometimes with even the best of intentions we can’t see it coming.

I also believe that I have learned deeper lessons on genuine "forgiving" (not forgetting-as we have to remember the lesson). MOTIVES- this is a big one as well. I too, have watched people use kindness to manipulate the vulnerable & elderly. It really makes me look at myself and my own standards and intentions for the things I say and do. We all have an agenda to a certain extent and think of ourselves most of the time. Taking the high road is a noble call for each one of us as we walk through this life.

All I know, Ms. Dee is that with the issue of fear-I choose to read my Proverbs in the morning for nuggets of wisdom and know what the good book says:

"Perfect love casts out all fear….God hasn’t given us a spirit of fear, but power, Love and a SOUND mind." I used to repeat these to myself when I was a single Mom raising my kids. And then one of my favorites, "Jesus wept-and says, I will NEVER leave you ‘nor forsake you". What an awesome comfort in the dark night hours this has been for me and other women alone. I share these with my little old ladies who get weepy with me. Some people make fun of the Bible-I find it a joy and strength for myself and these dear ones that I am privileged to care for at the end of their lives.

By Mary Courtney on 07/10/2009 12:02 pm
Belinda Joy

The answer is simple, it is because some women are weak and some are strong. And those who are weak don’t want to admit that to their family, friends, associates and least of all to themselves. So they stay, put up with one more slap, one more punch, hoping that he will change or they stay because at least the pain is familiar. They don’t know what the next guy is like or IF there will be a next guy, so they stay.

I do not believe any woman who defines herself as strong would allow a man to beat her and decide to stay. I’ve always said I would never stay with a man that hit me, even once. But I recognize I am in the minority in that regard. I think MOST women fit into the category if he hits me once, I may forgive him, but it better not happen again. Until it does….and then they are out the door! I believe that is the brunt of how women feel and respond. 

The women who are weak are the ones who stay because on some level they may feel they are deserving of the abuse.

By Belinda Joy on 07/13/2009 2:49 pm
PO Andrea

Because they don’t feel like dying today.

I deal with abused women quite often, and I ask them if they would like to leave, and if not, why? Not because I want to shame or browbeat them into leaving their abusers, but because I am genuinely curious. They may have poorly thought out reasons, and these obstacles can easily be overcome with planning and referral to appropriate agencies. But some of them have quite valid arguments against it, number one being "Because I don’t want to die." (If you have ever seen a dead wife in the parking lot of her workplace, less than a day after you’ve taken her to a shelter, you just might appreciate the power of this reason.) Some women haven’t left their abusers YET, not because they haven’t been hurt badly enough, but because their safety plans aren’t complete YET. I can’t find the study indicating the majority of women murdered by domestic partners are killed AFTER they leave, (what an awful mess my office has become.) If I remember correctly, the number is just a bit over 80%. The number would indicate it is actually SAFER to remain in an severely abusive relationship than it is to leave. So the question we should be asking these women is "Why on earth would you want to leave?"

By PO Andrea on 07/23/2009 12:12 pm
Ophelia de Serres

I wrote an article on this topic that I published:

http://womenspeakout.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/understanding-patterns-of-…

I hope you will read it and leave your feedback. 

By Ophelia de Serres on 09/04/2009 4:21 pm
Pamela Robb
I was verbally abused and physically abused by my mother growing up in the 60’s and 70’s. I was six years old when my mother’s drinking escalated, and I started really noticing the abuse. Often, I sat at my desk, in my grade one classroom, with a red welt, or hand mark across my face; a stinging slap I received before I left our house. As I sat, feeling ashamed, I felt everyone was looking at me as I tried to keep the tears from flowing down my face. The teacher didn’t even ask why I was crying. In those days, it was none of their business how parents punished at home. Even to this day, I don’t understand the "why" of this situation. Both my parents were educated people. My dad a professional man with a prosperous business, well known in our community, especially for his charitable work. My dad, a workaholic, knew what was going on while he was at work, but choose to ignore it.  I had four other siblings. As I got older, my mother’s sickness and rage increased.  I stepped in to protect my younger siblings. In doing this, I received the brunt of my mother’s physical abuse. Year after year, I suffered verbal and physical abuse from my mother. I suffered mental abuse knowing my father didn’t care enough about me (us) to stop her. As soon as I had the means, after college, and after my mother tried to stab me with a kitchen knife, I left home. Six years later, my first marriage ended after three years; I had married an abusive man. Oh, man, how could this have happened? We victims of abuse seem to tolerate great amounts of abuse before the light bulb goes on to tell us to leave. I remarried a man who accepted my son from my first marriage as his own, and we had a son together. This marriage was how it should have been in the first place. But, as I raised my own children, memories of my childhood were with me every day. Maybe other abuse victims don’t break the cycle and become abusers like their parents. But, in my house, the cycle was broken. I have never as much as yelled at my children and never, never laid a hand on them. I didn’t need to. There was nothing my children could ever do, that would have made me so angry to say horrible belittling things to them, or strike them physically in order to inflict hurt and pain on to them. From the day my children were born, I felt such an overwhelming love for them, so strong, I thought my heart would burst with joy. This made me even more confused as to why my mother treated me the way she did. Victims of abuse are messed up people. They all have their own personal bench mark for their tolerance of abuse. If we don’t understand ourselves, how can we expect the rest of the public to understand us…this tolerance…this fear to leave. My first husband was abusive, but he didn’t hit me every day like my mother. He verbally abused me often, and  in front of other people, just like my mother did. But, when he did strike out at me with his fist while I held a three month old baby in my arms, I ducked and he missed. This was the point at which he had reached my bench mark…I left. We victims of abuse, are a work in progress, always.
By Pamela Robb on 10/03/2009 2:49 pm