Sibelle, What’s annoying, vulgar and arrogant—-not to mention heartless and cruel—is defending a mass murderer whose crimes are far worse than most of the 647 inmates on Death Row, where Susan Atkins was sentenced to go, but lucked out on a fluke of timing. But then, with you it’s always the same LOL, racism, constant put down stuff, nothing that adds any weight or contribution and intermixed with brown nosing Mugsy’s Clique. Tres ennui a pas de bon gout. _____________________ Mugsy,thank you for standing up! Depending on my mood i’ll vote Mc Cain or stay home! Marjorie, LOL LOL LOL Frank, this is SO funny! the only way! through History. Only power and money rules.So more power to you! LOL Marjorie, LOL “malice” is too casual for him, i prefer “Machiavellian”, i think it is more appropriate in this case. lol Totally agree with you,Elizabeth. She should be released! Enough of “torture and watch them die” brutality through human history! Time to evolve! The question is: Are we going to have to look at dresses like this for 4 more years? How disenchanting! Obama is the most split personality politician in the country today”. More and more, we can see the guy is affected with schizophrenia. Dangerous no? She just looked dressed up for sunday morning black South Side Chicago’s church. Even a president needs sex! I am not too sure though, if Obama gets too much or not enough! LOL LOL LOL LOL same old fluff! Miaou miaou………… Marjorie
LOL I know how you feel! Sadly the DNC spoke and it seems that we are going to be stock with a sweet charlatan. Marjorie
It breaks my heart to vote Republican! What about staying home? lol I am not fooled by the “hope and change” euphoria. This country is fascinated with celebrities and stardom, tv realities etc… and we are getting to see the results in politics. i am not voting for Obama! Mitzi
Thanks for the comments. Always excellent…and funny! Lois,
So true, so funny! Rock, rock, rock yes you miss a lot lot lot lol Sarah,
You made my day! LOL ! And i restrain myself on the fun ! lol ! Sorry, “at the best” lol Let them die! Mugsy,
I love it. Good night.We will talk tomorrow/ LOL LOL i love your humor! My
I love Madeleines! Want one want one! (don’t like Proust though) Just looking at your FRENCH HEART publications it looks to me as some more pamphlets publications for airports dedicated for tourists caught in the myth of romance! lol Candy
Of course it is racism! It’s fine with me but let me be white! Support Hillary and maybe vote MCain or stay home! I don’t need all the black and violent ranting that exist on this site. roidubouloi, c’est le wodoo de la jungle,mais pas des gens civilises! Frannie!
That’s a good one! Kitty
 She is a black woman in trance. That woman Renata is just gross Star
You are a Star indeed for your perception and comments Thanks Why in the world,you daughter would want to be like Hillary? If she is smart she’ll prefer to be like Oprah! Among your few thoughts that is quite a stupid one! Frankly. Bonnie
She sent her cousin Taylor to replace her! My Alias
don’t get me wrong! I TOTALLY agree with you! I am trying to explain how Obama is an hypocrite like a lot of them! and it’s mostly a win for blacks and some white “yuppies”. Now he can play with so called white elite! why not ! But he wont get my vote! Can’t fool me with “hope” lol Star,
Are you going to stay home if Obama gets elected? Just curious! Want some milk? Lol M L
LOL LOL Thanks for turning me on to Shemar Moore LOL LOL You made my day LOL Now i don’t know any more who i am going to vote for! and i don’t know how after Shemar, i found myself watching Nubiannewyorkers naked on youtube LOL the story goes on and i am all confused! lol It’s all about the “frivolities” of the big Game Thanks for the laugh! It’s always Israel with America imposed solutions! Obama is probably learning fast that he doesn’t have a choice! Thanks to Hillary’s suspended campaign the beautiful black baby is trained to control himself and be a nice puppet! After all, he needs all her supporters for his second battle with Mc Cain. Doc’s LOL LOL She can’t get it! And why don’t you go and settle with them so you could wear home made zionist COUTURE and ran for president! LOL LOL lol lol YES WE CAN………..DISTRUST OBAMA!!!!!!!! LOL LOL Nice to meet you Mugsy! Are you sure it’s hateful! What a waste of energy all that hate!!! LOL Someone says Arianna Huffington is brillant! Smart but certainly not Brillant!!!!I rather call her the “Oprah”of politics and unlike Oprah who exploit dumb american house wifes,and runs all the way to the bank, Arianna has the left part of her brain fighting the right part of her brain and embarrass herself on Charlie Rose the other night,but Hey there is room for everyone under the sun! Suzanne
Focus!!!!!!!
Joan of arc was not pathetic but Segolene Royal talking like an “institutrice” trying to save France in the 21th century WAS PATHETIC!!!! Suzanne
With the difference that HRC is much more intelligent than Segolene Royal who was a pathetic Joan of Arc Simmy I totally agree with you! Obamatons are just very very late “Hippies” Hi Denise
I am with you,i can’t stand his wife! She is very arrogant and “something” very unpleasant about her! No humility! A lot of anger! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL Iris Odonata! you have to wait! When you submit! Once is enough! LOL LOL LOL You funny girl it also happened to me! Condoleeza Rice Oprah Michelle Obama Brigitte Bardot

Elizabeth—She’s been denied parole 17 times, the last time in 2005, the next hearing is 2009. On this special compassion release she was denied. The larger percentage are, ie last year 60 applied 10 approved. The next step if she wishes to proceed is to the Board of Parole that meets July 15……they are receiving puiblic comment. they will also hear from all the victim’s families that have fought to keep all the murderers in prison for 30+ years. She’s been in a hospital near the prison since March. Her husband is her atty so he gets to visit whenever.

“If California laws give lifers lenacy under certain circumstances, and she is eligible under these circumstances, then she should be released. That is the way the system works.” The LAW IS SHE GETS TO APPLY. Most are denied. She was denied. Your entire post is totally wrong because it is based on your false belief that it is some kind of automatic procedure, and then Mugsy quoted it and Frank followed her lead. It would be nice if people checked their info before making totally wrong assumptions. And it would be nice if they took on the views of the victims families. The law is she gets top apply. Last year 60 did and 10 were approved. She was denied for the same reason she’s been denied parole 17 times. Because she committed some of the most grisly murders on three separate occasions and on totally innocent people and then bragged it was more fun each time you do it. You people feel noble when your position is heartless for the families because you are totally uninformed about what the process is, and assuming it is automatic. “If her name had not been so publicized we would not even know that she was being released and this question would never have been asked.” She doesn’t get to be released just because she’s sick. She was denied a release do to the gravity of her grisly mass murders. It sin’t that she killed someone famous its that she mass murdered totally innocent people on 3 separate occassions and bragged it was more fun each time, like having sex, And that she stabbed to death a 8/12 month pregnant woman begging for her life. “If it is justice - it is justice for all.” that’s right. She’s a mass murderer. Here’s a 411 for you. Mass murderers don’t get out of prison because they ASK. If she didn’t want to die in prison then she shouldn’t have killed 8 people and an baby. What is so difficult to understand about that? She can now try to see if the Parole Board or the courts will hear her request… By Maggi D on 06/20/2008 2:22 am

frank-“iI’s still the rule of law’ what are you talking about? the questions was she applied for compassionate release. Do you think it should be granted or not? It is rarely granted. She applied. The Director of CA Prisons denied it. Now it’s up to the Parole Board that’s denied her 17 times to go against the public wishes, the victim’s families wishes, and also set a legal argument for every mass murderer who will die in prison—that they must also be released when ill, and then the question becomes how ill? That’s what happens when you’re found guilty of mass murder, you die in prison. She killed 8 people and a baby, she had a 1 1/2 year trial, sentenced to die for 8 first degree murders, commuted due to a fluke intervention of Supreme Court decision during that time which was reinstated, but couldn’t reinstate the death sentences. She has a right to APPLY for compassionate release, she did, it’s denied. What in the hell are you talking about first stones and back in the jungle and rule of law? Are you people just totally uninformed? She’s had MORE compassion than deserve. She applied for something and was denied. Next step will be denied too, and the one after that. that’s what happens when you mass slaughter innocent people. The law’s the law if you don’t like it work to change it instead of spouting off as if supporting mass murderers of innocents is so noble.

Frank—This is about the LAW. The victims families have spent the last 37 years fighting to keep the mass murders in jail, who got out of their death sentences by a fluke of timing Everyone of them is in for 7 or 8 first degree murder convictions. In 1970 when they were sentenced fetuses didne’t count as they do today as another person, otherwise it would be 9 first degree murder convictions. ie the musician she kiiled two weeks before her Tate residence massacre and the two murdered the following night. The law is that she gets to APPLY for a compassionate release based on an illness, very few receive them, especially NOT mass murders of completely innocent people, any more than Scott Peterson, Richard Allen Davis, Mason, or that Steiner man who murdered the two teenage girls and one of the girl’s mothers would be released. The Director of the CA prison system has already turned her down. She has been in as hospital near the prison since March. Since her atty is her husband he can visit any time. She now can apply to the Parole Board that’s turned her down 12 times before, or the court that convicted her with a death sentence. Mass murderers die in prison. That’s how it the rule of law goes. The State of California is not going to start releasing mass murderers because they are close to death, because they all will be eventually. This person committed some of the most most grisly murderers in the 20th century. The large majority of people, the State, the laws, her victim’s families do not want her released. The only remorse she had after her murders was that she hadn’t had time to cut out the baby and the eyes of the victims. She mocked them while stabbing them to death, and their families in court. She bragged that it was fun to kill, and more fun each time. Her innocent victims, their friends and loved ones have been robbed for 37 years. She hasn’t changed, outwise she would have been paroled in 2005, her last hearing. Her next is in 2009. This isn’t about you and Mugsy feeling feeling more noble than people less ‘principled’ because they are for the victims and not the mass murderer. Doris Tate, Sharon Tate’s mother, was in serious depression until 1982 until she started to tirelessly work for victims rights, including going to every parole hearing to make sure these killers are never out of prison. If you and Mugsy don’t like the laws about mass murderers rights then I suggest you work to change them instead of infer about others principles because they are all for the victims and not for these ruthless killers. It is about justice for the victims and their families. If you and Mugsy were listening then you’d hear all the pain Dona and JB were in and are in because their loved ones were killed and did not receive justice. Were any of the innocent victims shown any compassion, mercy, clemency, do they ever get to climb out of their graves that this monster put them in? This killer has been in prison a little more than 4 years for everyone of her completely innocent victims that she killed senselessly. The compassion should be for the 100 family members that are emotionally tormented every time their loved one’s killers attempt release and they must relive everything all over again to fight it. The laws said she gets to apply. She did. She was denied. End of story. You want to change the laws then get to work instead of joining in the very cheap shots that others lack compassion, mercy or principles, or that their motive is revenge because their concern it the victims justice and rights. Doris and Patti Tate dedicated the remainder of their lives to working for victims right and justice. I respect that. they would have had a very different quality of life had it not been for this ruthless killer. The Tate’s changed laws and started support groups, and attended every parole meeting the killers stayed behind bars where they belong. She can now go to the parole board that’s denied her 12 times, or the court that sentenced her to death. I guess the killing part was only fun when she was doing it. Now that she’s dying everyone is supposed to care,. What was that she said to 8 1/2 months pregnant Sharon Tate as she pleaded to live and have her baby and as she stabbed her to death? “”Woman, I have no mercy for you. Your’re going to die.” In June 2005, Atkins had her 17th parole hearing. This hearing was attended by Debra Tate, the Sebring family and other victim family members again had to relived everything, travel to Corona, and asked her parole be denied. She received a four-year denial, the next hearing is scheduled for 2009 . Debra Tate, the only surviving member, of Sharon Tate’s immediate family, spoke in opposition to a compassionate release for Atkins. Seems that people might respect that. Mugsy is wrong. It ISN’T about US. It’s about the LAW which has been followed. And it is about the mass murderer and her actions, it’s about precendents, and it’s about justice for the victims. When they can all climb out of their early graves then I’ll be all for their cold blooded killer getting out.

{Mugsy} “Well, Suzanne, I actually know quite a bit more about the trial than many because I was very close to people in the human rights community who attended a good part of it as international observers. [Response}—What I said was that people who differ with your view that a mass murderer should be released because she is sick, are not ‘unprincipled, lacking in compassion, unmerciful, against clemency for those who deserve it. The vast majority of people just have it for the victims, not for the mass murderer. THE FAMILIES of the VICTIMS have used the last 37 YEARS fighting to keep the mass murderers in prison. Sharon Tate’s mother was in a deep depression throughout the 1970s until she became one of the foremost advocates for victims rights—as a result of fighting a request for parole of one of the murderers in 1982—-that changed her life. She personally changed the laws, started a major support group for victims rights. THE ENTIRE FOCUS of the rest of her life was to keep the killers of the victims loved ones in prison where they belong. [Mugsy] “There is no discussion that it was a godawful terrible thing that happened. Have you ever seen someone killed? Because I saw someone shot five feet from me in cold blood, and had the blood all over my face. And I have personally been the victim of violent crimes.” {Response} the discussion here isn’t about your experience with violent crime. I’m not getting dragged into a tit for tat on that. You took an insupportable position, and then try to enlarge it by every unrelated thing (and cheap shot) you can think of to support it. The thread is should or should this mass murderer not be released. You repeatedly stated, and reiterated, that we are lacking in compassion, mercy, and principle if we do not share your view, and that we should go read some ‘The Lottery” and then rethink whether we believe that a mass murderer of 8 innocent people and a baby should be released early due to illness. The point is that instead of simply stating your views and supporting them however you wish to, your position was that yours is the moral high ground and that anyone differing is unprincipled, unmerciful, not compassionate, not showing clemency to a mass murderer. [Mugsy} “If you would stop shouting stfu at everyone” {Response} I said it to you and Frank, not ‘everyone.’ Try to be somewhat accurate. And I said it because your usual fall back position of sanctimony is sickening, as is your inferring that for us not to hold your view is unprincipled, because some of us do not support releasing a mass murdered thereby inflicting more emotional damage on the victims families, and which goes against what they have fought against for 37 years. I have repeatedly said this is about justice for the victims and their families. You keep using everything but the kitchen sink becuase you find yourself in a not very supportable position. {Mugsy} And listen to what Ms. Dona is saying, you might actually learn something.” {Response} I don’t need you to tell me who to listen to. The point of that comment is a very cheap shot. I guess Dona knows what I think or don’t think by our exchanged posts, and I don’t need your comments in this regard at all. Your point is to use Dona to gain sympathy for you. {Mugsy} “And, if under California law, as someone else said” {Response} Who is someone? If you have a point of view support it yourself. You argued at first that no one should even be answering the question posed by the owners of this site, unless they have directly related experience. Now you’re stating someone eles said “if under California law”. So you don’t know the related law yourself, and you don’t know that the Director of California Prisons has already said NO—the mass murderer cannot be released from the hospital that she’s been in since March. So your point then, since you don’t know the law yourself, nor did you know she was in a hospital, and your opinion is directly against that of the victim’s families—-is just that she is ill? A lot of people get ill and die in prison. If you don’t want to die in prison shouldn’t mass murder people. The State of California can’t set a precedent of releasing mass murderers because they are ill and ready to die. People who mass murder die in prison. Have you not heard this before? {Mugsy} “Atkins is eligible for compassionate release on account of her terminal illness,” {Response} She isn’t eligible for RELEASE. She is eligible to APPLY for release. The question was do we believe she should or should not be released. {Mugsy} then she is eligible under the law, the same as anyone else to whom this law applies. {response] She is eligible to APPLY. {Mugsy} 1) Anyone who believes the State of California, whose number one legitimate industry is prisons 2) would actually let her out if they believed for a second she could hold a pen to write a book is loony. {Response} 1) The State of California’s #1 industry is education. K-through higher educations is 41.3% of the budget. Health and Human Services is 25.35, Business, transportation and housing is 9.5% and prisons and rehabilitation is 7.3%. 2) Mark Klein is the one who made the statement re the book thing at the front of this thread. I had nothing to do whatsoever with the statement because it would not enter into the Parole Board’s decision making. I’ve watched the tapes of these mass murderers including Susan Atkins when they’ve attempted release before. Anyone who thinks that would even be a weighed is loony. IF the parole board wants to make anything a non issue, they put it in the terms of their release. That has no relationship to the question—I don’t even know why you’d mention it except as another diversion to obscure the fact that you haven’t been able to make any viable argument for your position. [Mugsy} I personally don’t think she should be released because in prison she is safer than she would be without armed guards protecting her from people like you. {Response} And now just about the most vile remark I’ve read on this site ever. You can’t support your position, and keep using things that have nothing to do with it. And finally the ultimate cheap, sleazy shot that a mass murderer in some obscure town, in some unknown hospital is in any danger whatsoever from a blogger in Northern California who is arguing along with the majority view, the State’s view, the families of the victims view, that this mass murderer be kept incarcerated. So now your view is that no she belongs in prison not because she has committed one of the most heinous crimes in the 20th century, but because in you mind she is in danger from, and needs to be protected from, bloggers. that’s quite amusing. Low, very low and ridiculous. But also amusing. {Mugsy} Dona, I am sad, too, and so will leave this thread because this helps no one, and I know it is very upsetting to you personally. {Response} It doesn’t help for YOU to take a position that you do not defend except by inferring that others are not principled etc for not agreeing with yours, And Dona is a grown-up. If she found this thread too upsetting she wouldn’t be here. You made that statement again to try to garner symphathy for you. You’ve yet to make one unsanctimonious clear, non-self congratuatory statement of why you believe a mass murderer should be released, instead of honoring the victim’s families unambigious, clearly stated desires, and all of Doris Tate’s work to ensure that none of the mass murders be released. {Mugsy} “I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Manson family or am I otherwise associated with groups intent on committing similar acts.” {Response} what a totally bizarre and again purposefully cheap shot to infer that anyone said you were. {Mugsy} I supported Sen. Clinton for the Presidency of the United States. This in no way means that I support the illegal and unjust war in Iraq, or any of the other illegal and unjust policies of the current illegitimate administration in Washington. {Response} Right. that makes perfect sense. Not for the war, just vote for someone that votes for it. Great logic. {Mugsy} The fact that I disagree with Suzanne does not mean I am a liar, a hypocrite, or whatever else she said because I did quit reading after it became clear that her posts had nothing to do with me. {response} I don’t see the word hypocrite anywhere on this thread, but you did credit news stories with statements for which I could find no support and when challenged you couldn’t produce a link for the statements you used. If you are going to allege a statement to support yourself should be able to produce the reference. You couldn’t. {Mugsy) I am unequivocally opposed to the death penalty. If that means people don’t like me and want me to “go away,” well tough beans. I have had this stance my entire life and have no evidence that I should change my mind. {response} This thread isn’t about the death penalty. We haven’t been debating the death penalty. Who gives a rat’s behind about your stance on the death penalty. The question is should she be released or not because of her illness, and thus far you haven’t used one logical statement to support your assertion that it if we have mercy, compassion, principle…then we support clemency in this case meaning release. Why do you continually enlarge an argument and not just answer the question? {Mugsy} While I am no longer willing to respond to personal insults or attacks against me on this website, which I think is not good for the community as a whole, I have absolutely no intention of giving up my right to speak because others don’t like what I said. Again, tough beans. {Suzanne} YOU are the one that started this thread with 1) only people with direct related experience should answer 2) You stated that if people here have mercy. compassion and principle they would agree with your position. 3) You are the one infering people are unprincipled and that a mass murderer is in danger from and should be protected from bloggers. 4) Who has any power here to stop you from pposting except the owners of the site. What you really mean is that you will not be challenged, and if challenged you bring in all sorts of unrelated garbage instead of supporting your stance, after you have been the one personally insulting and stating outright others should not speak unless they have personal related experience. You’re arguments and responses are all weak. Your logic is non existent. {Mugsy} 1) My support of clemency for Ms. Atkins has nothing to do with her personally and everything to do with my support of the law. 2) As someone else said previously, it does not matter that her victims were rich people or well known. 3) The people convicted of murder have done despicable things, but we as a society are not excused from our obligation to remain civilized in the face of those deeds. 4) Our support of the rule of law is one of the very very few things that separates us from barbarianism, and it is indeed a thin membrane.5) If the law says Ms. Atkins is eligible for clemency based on her medical condition, the law must be applied equally to all people. 6)This has nothing to do with Ms. Atkins and everything to do with us. {response} 1) You don’t know the law as you said earlier you are just making assumptions based on what ‘someone’ said. 2) Her victims were all INNOCENT—that is their common denominator as has been repeatedly stated here. That they were slaughtered for no reason whatsoever. Steven Parent wasn’t rich or well known. Neither were the La Binacas. Nor was the musician she murdered before the Tate residence massacre. This has absolutely nothing to do with the question. The question is should a mass murderer of 8 people plus a baby be released because she is ill. 3) This is nonsensical. Your idea maybe that releasing a mass murderer because she is ill is civilized, others don’t agree. 4) The ‘rule of law’ in this case is that she has a right to apply for a release. Which she did. Again, no one kept her from her rights. And the question was should it be granted, should she be released. That was the question. The state isn’t ‘uncivilized’ if they don’t release her. Just as none of us aren’t unprincipled, lacking in compassion or mercy etc if we don’t agree with you that she should be released. 5) The LAW DOES NOT SAY THAT SHE IS ELIGIBLE TO BE RELEASED BASED ON HER MEDICAL CONDITION—-it says SHE CAN APPLY FOR A COMPASSIONATE RELEASE BASED ON HER MEDICAL CONDITION. No one said she couldn’t apply. The law is not being applied differently, or unequally. A SMALL PERCENTAGE get approved for comapssionate releases. 6) No, it has EVERYTHING to do with Susan Atkins, and NOTHING to do with us. When you mass murder 8 innocent people and a baby, you get to die in prison—that’s how it works. And the prison system isn’t going to change that otherwise….that would set a dangerous precedent….because EVERYONE in prison for mass murder will eventually die there. {Mugsy} Ms. Dona’s posts are heart-breaking and informative, and I suggest others read and consider them. {Response} Its is assumed that most everyone is reading Dona’s poists, because many of us have been responding to them and posting back and forth with her directly. Dona supports victims rights, as she has said. And that’s not why you pointed to this again. But to conflate everyone’s symphathy for Dona and JB’s situations, with your unsymphathetic one. Neither Dona or JB [from what I’ve read in their posts} are for giving GREATER benefits to the criminals.They’ve both been badly hurt by criminals getting off. That’s been my entire point as has been the posts of the majority here.She doesn’t deserve a compassionate release. That she is ill doesn’t matter. She’s in a hospital near the prison and she has been since March. Her husband is also her lawyer he can freely visit her there. She is a mass murderer, convicted of 8 1st degree murders. (The baby wasn’t counted back then but would be today because today fetuses are recognized as another human being.) -So again, you didn’t make distinctions about what the law is and isn’t -You didn’t really answer the question. -This is NOT about us, it is about HER and HER VICTIMS and the LAW. -The law is that she gets to apply. Most requests are denied. Her’s was denied. She can proceed to other levels. And they will also be denied. Because as a mass murder who committed one of the most grisly murders in US history, on totally innocent people, she does not deserve a compassionate release. The state is not going to set the precedent. Mass Murders die in prison all the time because they are typically lifers. -To give her a compassionate release would be unjust because most are denied, including for people much more deserving. ie it is difficult to find more heinous criminals than her. -She has already been given more compassion than she deserves because she is no longer on death row and as such got to go up for parole 12, now 13 times if she proceeds with this, putting her victims through hell each time. ie She is a far worse criminal than Scott Peterson, Richard Allen (killer of Polly Klaus), Steiner who murdered two teenagers and the mother of one of the girsl—all of whom are on death row. She is guilty of 8 counts of 1st degree murder and isn’t on death row because of lucky timing in having her sentence commuted. -Again this isn’t about us, it is about the law, her, her crimes, and her victims. The thread asked a question that you didn’t answer with anything to support your view. You incorrectly stated what the law is, that she hasn’t been treated fairly, that if we don’t agree with you we are unprincipled, uncivlilized, unmerciful, etc. etc etc and finally that she should now stay in prison where she isn’t but in a hospital to proect her against bloggers who don’t agree with you. Go take Logic 101. In the rules of argument you’ve pulled every “Don’t” and haven’t done one “DO.” Maybe that impresses your Clique. I am for the victim’s, their families who’ve fought so hard for so long to keep these mass murderers in jail—-AND FOR THE LAW. Which says she can APPLY for a compassionate release. Few get one. She doesn’t deserve it. getting sick isn’t a get out of jail term free. esp for mass murder. Guess she should have thought of that when she was stabbing to death 9 innocent people and then bragging about it later that the more she did it the more fun it was. She’s been in jail 37 years. That’s about 4 years for each of her innocent victims that met a very brutal end so that she could have “Fun”—-her words.

Not to mention that Mugsy’s very first post on this thread is that only people who have actually had the exact experience should even be responding to the question. More total BS. The Board of Parole invites public comment, as do newspaper letters to the editors, as did this site by posing the question, etc etc but in true know it all Mugsy form she starts right out deciding who’s comments are welcome and legitimate and whose are not. She has run quite a few people off of this site. But neither her cheap shots, nor her pals support of her cheap shots, have an effect. She needs a class in Logic 101—-badly. Very badly.

I am not making ‘hateful’ attacks on “people” who disagree with me. There are only a few people on this thread think the mass murderer should be released. I responded to Mugsy’s inference that the only response is clemency, mercy, and compassion for a mass murderer otherwise we aren’t ‘principled.’ If she wants to hold insupportable positions, make them without characterizing people that hold another view as not principled. She’s also made a number of factually wrong and illogical statements besides. Like the prisoner should stay in prison (when she isn’t in prison but in a hospital as she has been since March) so that she won’t be in danger from bloggers who don’t agree with Mugsy, without armed guards. That is a ‘hateful statement’. She also stated that California’s # 1 legitimate business is prisons, when the #1 business of the state by 6 times is education. She has a position at variance with the Director of CA Prisons, the families of the victims, and the overwhelming numbers of the public, an insupportable position given the nature of the mass murders and she has also altered her assertions when proven they aren’t popular. First if we were principled then we would agree to compassion, mercy, clemency for a vile mass murderer; then no, she should stay in prison (where she isn’t anyway) so she is safe from bloggers who don’t agree with Mugsy. Then she falsely made statements attributing them to the press to bolster her position, statements that don’t exist anywhere in the press. Finally when she is just plain wrong on so much, we should all read a novel that is going to magically change our views, the views of the victims family, the vast majority of the public, and the courts, and the Director of CA prisons. And then that good old standby by dirty fighters who PRETEND high-mindness after 1) not having the facts right, 2) taking an unpopular position and then trying to support it by implying the opposite view is unprincipled, 3) switching viewpoints ie the prisoner should stay in prison afterall to be safe from bloggers who disagree with Mugsy, 4) enlarge her argument by bringing in things that don’t have anything to do with this thread. “I’m not sure I want to be associated with a website that contains these kinds of postings.” Then don’t no one has you chained here. Mugsy referring to people who don’t agree to her as being unprincipled etc….when she can’t make an accurate statement, nor have a supportable stand without attacking other people’s ‘compassion’ ‘mercy’ etc and surpised when responded to, then making false statements attributed to news reports etc…. is all very low. The person making the hateful attacks is your pal Mugsy, and if she doesn’t want to be responded to, then she should learn to make her statements without making the others wrong for holding a different view, otherwise she can expect a comeback.

So no story said she can’t talk or walk across the room. She’s had a leg amputated for a long time and has been walking with a prosthesis, and brain cancer doesn’t mean you can’t speak. My brother-in-law had it, Ted Kennedy has it. You just made up specific symptoms that aren’t in any news story. Whether she can write a book or go on news shows has no relevance anyway.

Dona, Oh yeah, they always ‘find Jesus.” Then she doesn’t need to be out, because he can visit her anywhere. She’s not even in prison, she’s been in a nearby hospital to the Corona, CA prison since March. Doris Tate said, “You can’t make sense out of the innocent slaughter of Sharon and the other victims. The most that I, or any person touched by violence, can hope for is acceptance of the pain. You never forget it, not even with the passage of time. But, if, in my work, I can help transform Sharon’s legacy from murder victim to a symbol for victims’ rights, I will have accomplished what I set out to do.” She was a brave woman, but family and friends said she never fully recovered from the loss. In response to parole eligibility for her daughter’s killers, she founded The Doris Tate Crime Victims Bureau. The organization assists families and loved ones of murder victims, with particular emphasis on organizing opposition to early release of their killers. I just read today that she died on July 10, so did my first husband. 7/10 at 7:10PM. Her husband, Sharon Tate’s father was an intelligence officer requiring much international travel, so they lived in many parts of the world. When Sharon became pregnant she helped decorate the planned nursery. “Doris Tate was horrified by Atkins gloating attitude and remarks in her confession, including the statement, “Killing people is fun. The more I do it, the better I like it.” Doris watched with disbelief as the ensuing trial dragged on for over a year while the defendants engaged in bizarre, disruptive behavior, seeming to gloat over what they had done. It was an enormous relief when the killers were found guilty and sentenced to death in 1971. However, in 1972, the California Supreme Court overturned the death penalty. Throughout the 1970’s, Doris Tate was profoundly depressed and became a recluse, unable to even talk about her late daughter without falling apart. That changed in 1982, when she learned that former Manson follower Leslie Van Houten was being considered for parole and had gained 300 signatures in support. This outraged her, and although Van Houten hadn’t participated in her daughter’s murder, she launched a public relations campaign to keep all the killers in jail. After making several television appearances and an interview with The National Enquirer, she succeeded. She then proceeded to appear at parole hearings of her daughters killers, vigorously opposing their releases. She became a nationally known advocate of victims rights.” I’m sure than Doris Tate if she were still alive, if Sharon’s sister Patti were still alive, they’d be fighting this latest outrage too. Here’s an interview that Sharon Tate’s best friend Shelia Wells gave: “Sharon Tate was my best friend. Once, we were roommates. She introduced me to my husband. She was the godmother to my baby daughter who is named for her. In the six years time that I knew her, she never said an unkind word about anyone. My friends used to tease me. ‘How can you wake up in the morning and look at that face of hers?’ It was a good question. Sharon was so over whelmingly, so incredibly beautiful that anyone not knowing her might think it took a lot to live with such a beauty. But you see that was another thing about Sharon. With all her beauty, everyone loved her. I never heard anyone say a bad word about her, not even another actress. And in this town that’s not only a rarity, it’s an impossibility! Sharon was the type of a girl who had no defenses, no pretenses, she was just herself all the time… She was so trusting, so eager to accept people as they were, so generous… Sharon never shut her door to anyone. She always had a way of finding such goodness in others. If someone hurt her, she’d say, “Oh, Sheliah, I’m sure they didn’t mean to.’ She’d always make excuses for others. Sharon was just totally loving and also totally vulnerable. She was just a remarkable person, she never gave up on anybody. As far as Sharon’s marriage was concerned, Sharon and Roman were in love. They were a combination of beauty and genius. She was always going out on a limb for everyone. Everyone but herself. There was an ethereal quality about her. She had this thing I sometimes wished I’d had, even though I knew that eventually it might be bad for me. Do you understand? She had this kind of beauty and fragility, and you just knew she was bound to get hurt because of it. But still you couldn’t help but admiring that quality in her. She was just such a special person. In just the last few months Sharon was beginning to come into her own. She never cared about being beautiful. She never even really cared about acting. She just wanted to love and be loved. And have her baby. I know that if she’d lived and had the baby everything would have been different for her. Because that is what Sharon really wanted. She was just a little girl from Texas who was so incredibly beautiful that she got swept up in all of the Hollywood nonsense. But all she ever wanted was what every woman wants — a man to love and a baby of her own. I can’t believe that the murderers knew her. To know Sharon, to really know her, was to love her. There is just no way that anyone who knew her could have hurt her so.” It’s incredible to me that any person could murder a pregnant, innocent, beautiful, completely blameless, angelic young mother. It defies belief. On a scale of evil it is at the very top. The karmic retribution on that one is going to be Dante’s 9th ring of Hell level.

Mugsy, “And, if under California law, as someone else said, Atkins is eligible for compassionate release on account of her terminal illness, then she is eligible under the law, the same as anyone else to whom this law applies. Anyone who believes the State of California, whose number one legitimate industry is prisons would actually let her out if they believed for a second she could hold a pen to write a book is loony.” All of this defies logic. 1) “And, if under California law, as someone else said, Atkins is eligible for compassionate release on account of her terminal illness, then she is eligible under the law, the same as anyone else to whom this law applies.” She can apply all she wants. THAT isn’t the point, nor was it the question. It was it does she deserve, should it happen. Mute point now, because the the Director of Prisons said NO. So she’ll be dead before the process runs its course if she wants to protest that decision and try other avenues. It would be defeated anyway. Few of these releases are granted, and the State is not going to release a mass murderer of 8 innocents plus a baby. It doesn’t matter if she is sick, just like it didn’t matter to her when she was stabbing a pregnant mother to death when she was begging for her child’s life. Neither the court nor a parole board is going to go against overwhelming public opinion, nor are they going to grant any kind of clemency for a mass murderer and set that precedent. 2) “Anyone who believes the State of California, WHOSE NUMBER ONE LEGITIMATE INDUSTRY IS PRISONS would actually let her out if they believed for a second she could hold a pen to write a book is loony.” First of all,The State of California has a number of ‘legitimate’ sectors beyond prisons: #1 is Education—with K through higher education receiving 41.3% of the State budget. The University system is the #1 employer. #2 Is Health and Human services which receives 25.3% of the State budget. #3 is Business, Transportation and Housing which receives 9.5% of the State budget. #4 is Corrections and Rehabilitation which receives 7.3% of the State budget. ANYONE who thinks that whether the mass murderer can, or cannot, hold a pen to write a book is given ANY weight whatsoever in deciding whether or not to grant a release is as you so eloquently put it, ‘loony.’ Logic 101. Try it.

Above was for Mugsy and Frank———-who’d like to dismiss the opinion of the jury, 11 different parole boards, the vast majority of people, law enforcement, the victim’s families, the CA Director of Prisons, the fact of one of the most brutal senseless random horrifying crimes against 8 totally innocent people and a baby etc, the law, etc etc….and have everyone read a novel and then decide what they think.

Yeah, right. Maybe the Director of the California Prison System who said NO compassionate release…should sit down and read a novel first. Perhaps that just might change her mind. Maybe THAT could make her forget that this woman butchered 8 innocent people and a baby for NO reason whatsoever, then wished she would have had time to cut out the baby and the victims eyes, and laughed at their families during the trial, and received a death sentence on 8 counts of first degree murder, and is only alive because her sentence was lessened by a fluke. Am sure the Director of Prisons, all the victims families, and the tens of millions of people across the US and world who’ve read this news and are on blogs, overwhemingly saying NO, will sit down and read a novel and change their mind. Oh, but it doesn’t matter anyway….because now Mugsy says the poor mass murderer should stay in prison where she can be protected against bloggers.

Dona, “This is how terrible crimes like this are………..The acts of violence affects all of us. The family’s are the true VICTIMS But all Citizens in a Civilized culture become the victims also.” Anyone who cares about the law and innocent victims want the murderers, especially anyone as vicious, callous, heartless and a multiple murderer like Susan Atkins, to stop torturing the families and stay locked up. I could care less what she has, what her symptoms are, what her life expectancy is, how many AA classes she took in prison, or if she does or does not pose a threat. None of that matters. What matters is that she is the mass murderer of 8 totally innocent victims and a baby and all the people who were and continue to be impacted. She and Tex Watson were absolutely the worse and they should have gotten the death sentence years ago. It makes me sick what our perverted system of justice does. Like the man who killed your daughter and gets a big settlement and then takes off with your grandchildren. Or OJ etc. Everything about what these people did was so heinous, they stole so many lives, and wrecked so many more. It is disgusting, despicable, and demonic beyond belief. I could care less that this woman is sick. I wish she’d get off the planet and on to her karmic reward for what she did to those poor people….all of them, and all of their families. And that man for what he did to your daughter and your family too. I don’t need to ever feel revenge because they will receive what they deserve elsewhere. What am concerned with is justice in the here and now. And every time one of those ungodly monsters pulls something like this they just bring it all up again. Just like the father of Polly Klaus, not only did he lose that precious little girl, but that monster who killed her would torment him further in court. If that horrible monster gets cancer, or Scott Peterson, or any of the Manson killers, none of them should be given any kind of clemency whatsoever. It’s always the monsters that take away the good people. Doris Tate said she wanted people to see the crime scene photos of her daughter to see what they did to that lovely, totally innocent woman who begged for her life and for her baby’s life. That is unforgivable. I hope she burns in hell for what she did. She is a total, total monster. At least the Director of Prisons said no to the request for release. Now they’ll have to go through a lenghty process and it can be turned down by any number of steps…so I doubt she get out. And thank god for that. I guess Mugsy/Frank also think if that Stenier or whatever his name is that murdered the two teenaged girls and the mother in the mountains above Fresno should be released too if he gets sick….the killer of Poly Klaus, of Lacey Peterson and her baby. Just let them all out if they get sick. It’s disgusting to support that and even more disgusting to make the insane claim that bloggers are a danger to that mass murderer Susan Atkins and so for that reason she should stay in prison, after just arguing for clemency. A real jerk.

Gee, that’s strange…..can’t find ANY symptoms mentioned anywhere not even doing a Google News search. Even her husband and the prison spokesperson and EVERY NEWS story I read—-none had symptoms. The AP, CNN etc said this: Department of Corrections spokeswoman Terry Thornton declined to specify the nature of her illness. “She is very ill” and has been hospitalized, said Thornton. “Her condition is very serious and her prognosis is poor,” she said. Thornton said a doctor determined that Atkins has less than six months to live, which could make the application for release futile because of the length of the process. Such releases are relatively rare — only 10 of the 60 requests made last year were granted, Thornton said. The matter could be referred to the sentencing court in Los Angeles, she said, which could delay the decision even further. What was mentioned in the news stories however was what she said about her mass murder of 8 totally innocent victims and a about to be born baby; she said at the end of her trial, “I feel no guilt for what I’ve done. It was right then and I still believe it was right.” Interesting. So Mugsy, did you just make up symptoms? Because why is there no news source or the prison stating them? Sounds that way to me. That’s you brand of logic…..argue that ‘principled’ people have compassion and mercy and clemency for a mass murderer….and then recant and state you personally hope she stays in prison so she is safe from bloggers like who don’t think she should be released under any circumstances. Since this was a random crime just mass murdering the occupants of that particular house in as grisly a manner as possible. And since you expressed that if we were principled we’d want clemency and have compassion and mercy…..How would you feel if the innocent person who’d been murdered in that manner was Candace Bergen. She lived in that house. What would you say then. “can barely walk across the room or make a sentence.” Please provide a link because I think you just made this up.