I am actually capable of having “concern” for more than one thing at a time, Mahulda.  I am concerned that we have sold our soul to the devil because of our cowardice in the face of “terror.”  I am concerned that we murder innocent civilians by using robots.  I am concerned that our standards and values are meaningless words in the face of our cowardice.  As a nation, we have sacrificed everything we held dear in the face of that fear.  I am concerned that in fact as both military and civilian leaders have expressed over generations, our people overseas are at risk for whatever we do to others.  I’m concerned that in the 21st Century, you believe barbarian treatment of others is acceptable if we are “afraid.”  I am concerned that people don’t seem to get that we are in charge of our behavior, not that of others, and that we ourselves should know better than to torture others.  And I have other “concerns,” as well.

I am actually capable of having "concern" for more than one thing at a time, Mahulda.  I am concerned that we have sold our soul to the devil because of our cowardice in the face of "terror."  I am concerned that we murder innocent civilians by using robots.  I am concerned that our standards and values are meaningless words in the face of our cowardice.  As a nation, we have sacrificed everything we held dear in the face of that fear.  I am concerned that in fact as both military and civilian leaders have expressed over generations, our people overseas are at risk for whatever we do to others.  I’m concerned that in the 21st Century, you believe barbarian treatment of others is acceptable if we are "afraid."  I am concerned that people don’t seem to get that we are in charge of our behavior, not that of others, an that we ourselves should know better than to torture others.  And I have other "concerns," as well.

You think that’s worse than bombing entire villages using drone planes that are operated from Washington DC by kids who grew up on video games?  Who perhaps don’t even register the burnt skin and spilled guts of those they kill?

And don’t you just love the implication that President Obama isn’t really "an American citizen."  Such absolute nonsense.  Hey, guess what, people.  President Obama is an American citizen.  In fact, he is the first citizen.  He is President of the United States by vote of a free electorate.  And you should feel free to join the rest of us in the 21st Century.

Well, Deni, they are deleting things helter skelter, and things rearrange and such.  I should have said that I was talking to S.J., so that would have been clear.  Cold cold cold in Oakland tonight.  Strange, for the end of May.  Hope you’re doing well, Sweetpea.  xo, mp

Oh, like you have anything to contribute.

‘Scuse me…. Are you drinking or something.  It was Cheney she compared to Machiavelli.  But he’s not the right character.  Bush I is the Machiavelli, from the time he headed the CIA.  Maybe if you reread a post before you respond?

Oh, please.  This is just stupid.

I would disagree, Deni, with your assumption that he has a heart to begin with.  But that it is defective, I would certainly agree with you!

Nobody cares whether you are fed up or not, Beth.

Since WWII, Laureen, the "intelligence" people, both military and civilian, NATO and US, have agreed, that (a) torture does not gain information that is reliable; (b) torture is unjust, cruel, and inhumane (which apparently is of no interest to you); and (c) harms the perpetrator of torture far more than it does the person so treated.  Since the Geneva Convention, we have advertised to the world that we do not do this stuff, so President Obama is merely returning us to our own principles.  You probably call  yourself a Christian, and there’s that little do unto others thing that you’ve so conveniently forgotten.  The worst thing about this whole mess is that now people all over the globe think it’s perfectly acceptable to torture our guys because we do this.  BTW, there is no debate on "torture" among civilized people.  If you are in favor of it, I would have to ask, as Joan Baez once did, "Do you prefer to do it or have it done to you?" 

And you should perhaps understand that President Clinton warned the non-elected appointed Bush II that there would be an attack on the World Trade Center, and he totally blew him off.  So much for safety.  How’s your 401(k)?  Have health insurance?  Anyone in your family been laid off or lost their life savings, or gone into bankruptcy or lost their homes?  Oh, yeah, we’re real safe.

Deborah, we are no longer talking about a "difference of opinion" here.  This man is a war criminal, and needs to be tried, as the Nazis were tried in the Nuremburg trials.  The truth of what they have done needs to get out.  You "disagree" but the facts speak for themselves.  Having a "right to your opinion" does not really include the right to be respected for holding an opinion completely out of line with the reality of things.  The division comes from the confusion that people are supposed to still be nice when they’ve been completely vandalized.  You do understand that of all the wholesale theft that has happened in the past decade, the very worst is the destruction of not only people’s retirement IRAs and 401(k)s and 403(b)s but also the evaporation of the equity in their homes, those who could afford them.  The entire baby boom is looking at unrelenting poverty in their declining years, which they have worked hard to make anything but, and no one is interested in whether in your opinion this isn’t a problem.

We understand that you disagree.  I’m sorry that you are upset.  But we can no longer afford your point of view.  It is destroying our country, and people are very very angry about it.  The America you have lived in for 55 years must be in your mind, or you live in a very small place away from the cities where it is so very painfully evident that the BushI/BushII/Cheney boys have actually done far more damage to the United States than the nuclear explosions did to Hiroshima and Nakisaki.  We are in desperate, terrible trouble, and you’re still acting as if and as though, and it won’t wash.  I’m sorry if you’re upset and stunned.  But you couldn’t possibly be more upset and stunned than my coworker who worked her ass off for 25 years to stock her 401(k) and buy a house only to lose both in a year just after she’s had surgery for a brain tumor.  Why did she lose everything she’s worked so hard for?  Do you want to dive in there and tell her how America is still the land of opportunity, of fairness?  Do you want to help us pay her COBRA health insurance?  Unless you get it what is happening, you really are no damn help to the rest of us, many of whom will actually die as a result of these policies.

The failure of the health care system in our country under Bush and Cheney has been so pervasive and extensive and has caused so many more deaths than the war in Iraq/Afghanistan and 9/11 put together (e.g., 36,000 died just of simple influenza in the United States alone last year, many of whom were unable to get the flue vaccine), that it is incomprehensible to me how ANYONE who has any family or friends doesn’t know how really unsafe we are at this point in our history.  Every other industrialized nation has universal health care.  Every single one.  Except us.  We are so safe, however, that we obviously don’t need it.  Of course then, our infant mortality rate does compete with African nations, but it is nice that we are good at something.  (We do spend a lot of money, time, and energy protecting the unborn fetus, but once you’re born, baby, you’re on your own.)  So keep on rattling your swords and telling everyone how bloody good we have it here in the good ole us of a, kids.  Maybe you even believe it.  Wait till it’s your friends and family dying and then let’s talk again.