But even though you’re “rather insulted”, Sue J, it’s true—the church DOES tell you what to do & think. They even tell you that only they can interpret the Bible—for you. This message appeals to a certain type of person who needs to be led & likes it—it makes them feel safe to follow what the church says—like that’s all they ever have to consider to be a responsible person—to be “saved” & go to Heaven. It’s not that simple. I claim that many posters on here probably see the Catholic church more objectively & more clearly than you do, Sue. Others see “who Catholics are & what they actually believe” better than you. You “worship God” with the prayers & in the manner they dictate—the Mass. They have a catechism, they indoctrinate through 8 yrs of grade school religious teaching & 4 yrs of high school religious teaching & even catholic college. Outlawing contraception guarantees many many more catholics into the future who can tithe & keep the hierarchy supported in the style to which they have become accustomed, & keep the numbers up in the pews. The hierarchy is very wealthy & they like Republicans because Republicans help them keep & grow their money. The catholic church talks a good game of social justice & the dignity & rights of workers to have unions—some Pope even wrote an encyclical on the subject. But have you ever seen a Catholic grade school in which the teachers had a union?! NO. Because the Bishop won’t allow it. How phony. Insisting priests remain single & celebate guarantees a majority of homosexual priests in the church so the homosexuals can continue to control the catholic church. If the Pope let priests marry, they would have all the priests they need almost overnight (witness all the new “deacons” they have going, in which married men in the parish take over many duties only the priests once performed), but the Pope does not want priests to marry because if he did, it would be 10 or so years before they would dominate & take over control of the church from the gays. We won’t even go into the sex scandal in which the “scandal” was not that some priests sinned, but that the hierarchy covered it up & moved these perverts around so they were free to prey on the children of the “Faithful” yet again & again, the faithful who support the hierarchy’s asses in the style they have become accustomed to. The hierarchy is morally bankrupt but “the faithful” refuse to acknowledge it. Plus, in this money crunch the church is in, with parishes going bankrupt & closing right & left due to sex scandal lawsuits, not one bishop has given of his personal fortune (& all the bishops are personally very wealthy) to help. They just squeeze “the Faithful” for even more “sacrifice”—when it’s the hierarchy that caused all these lawsuits for the church through malfeasance—yet they expect “the faithful” to pay for their crimes. You are taught that the Catholic church MUST be the one true church or else, how could it have lasted over 2,000 years, through all the changes & problems in history, bad Pope’s etc—you’re told that the fact that it has lasted PROVES God’s hand is guiding it. But all the 2,000 years has actually proven is that a handful of rich, hard line old white men can punk many many people & get what they want out of them. It’s easy. All they have to do is claim they know the “will of God”—& it’s always that “the faithful” give them money & power & don’t question their authority. It’s been that way from the get go thru feudal days right up to the present.

That’s very hard to believe, Elaine. Plus, your credibility leaves something to be desired. (It’s you are wrong, not “your wrong”, Did you finish high school?)

Mugsy is right, Elaine. You refuse to acknowledge the truth about what you’re doing on here putting everyone down in a crass & nasty way as if you think you’re better than others. You refuse to acknowledge that the way you talk to people & the way you claim to be close to God just do not jive. It’s a commandment not to bear false witness against your neighbor.

Not one shrink in the world can go toe to toe with you? Talk about delusions of grandeur! The fact that you come on a mostly women’s website & make airheaded, sketchy comments for a living does not make you a giant among men to most women, putz.

Do you get paid to post or not, Jim Henley? You are not methodical—you’re an airhead. You jump from a few phony sayings on one subject to a few phony sayings on another.

Jim Henley, ABC news is corporate news—it’s one big advertisement for corporate America. Independent news says it went down differently. www.DemocracyNow!.org I’m sorry to see you here. I thought you’d stay in Whoville with your dog, Max.

How callous to want to hurt so many women rather than help them. Most people who don’t want a child will not have one. The best evidence of what will happen if abortion is illegal again is what did happen the first time it was illegal. Our laws in America originally were crafted from English law. Abortion was legal in America, just as it was in England, until the mid 1700s here, I believe it was. There are many statistics of how many women died & were maimed in hospitals in big cities when it was illegal. You KNOW women will still get them whether it’s illegal or not. And they’ll suffer & their families will suffer. They’ve asked women why they want an abortion & they mostly say it’s a lack of money, or lack of support, as in learning to parent without being totally stressed out every day, quality & affordable day care, a husband to share the responsibilities & moral support etc. Women need help in this country. Other countries get all kinds of help—from free health care to 6 months off with pay (& the father too)—free quality day care & any thing else they need. We treat our pregnant women very shabbily. After all, the country cannot go on with no babies. Raising good future citizens is important to any society.

Bush & Catholics ARE connected. They’re both part of the Christian Right that the Republicans use to get themselves elected. (The Catholic Church gave money for prop 8 in California right along with the other bigoted religions) Bush’s Republican party long ago passed out a questionaire which asked people in the middle & lower middle classes what they feel strongly about. This questionaire identified every prejudice these people had & then the Republicans put them all in their party platform for the sole purpose of getting a block of middle & lower middle class votes in every election. The Republicans were having a hard time getting any votes from poor people because they had figured out that Repubs only pass laws to benefit those making over $250,000 a year. They couldn’t win elections that way—only getting votes from the rich because the rich make up only 1 % of the entire ciltizenry. This entire crazy Christian right was created by Repubs, & comes complete with hucksters/ministers who are promoted on tv & radio. Did you ever ask yourself why it is that the church has you all get out there & hold up signs against abortion every year but they don’t have you do it for the Iraq war? I mean, the Pope declared both abortion AND the Iraq war to be immoral—so why do they only demonstrate against abortion & not the war? Every Catholic church has a social concerns committee—why don’t they organize demonstrations agaainst the war & not just abortions? Couldl it be the Republicans want war & it makes a lot of money—-while abortions don’t? Could it be they want to re enforce the idea that abortion is wrong & you should vote only for candidates who are against abortion. Guess who that is? REPUBLICANS! You can look it up on websites that list what professions give political donations to which party. You’ll find about 63% of priests give donations to only Republicans, the party of the wealthy & the Catholic church is very very wealthy. You’d think they could sell just one Pope-mobile or one ruby ring or one priceless piece of art they own & give the money to the poor. They are always telling “the Faithful” to give till it hurts.

No. You’re incorrect. Luther broke off the Catholic church to begin his own version of it. The Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught that they are the “one, true church”, period. They’ve toned the message down this past decade or so because it’s so unseemly with all this new inter-faith praying the churches all like to do together now. It’s hard to pray with other churches & play nice when you’re actively claiming they are not valid religions & only the Catholic religion is valid. Other religions do not like it that the Catholic church teaches this—that they are valid but other religions are not—plus they are so darned pompous. A lot of the bad attitude others have for Catholics is based right there. Catholics teach that others can come to God only if they are ignorant because they have not had the benefit of the Catholic church. It kinda grates on people ya know?

Bush “kept the country safe for 8 yrs”?! He knew 9/11 was coming & let it happen anyway, he lied to start a war in Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11 & now it’s created many thousands of new al Qaeda terrorists who will hate us for the next 3oo yrs over this & he brought down our financial system so he & his buddies could make money. We’re sitting ducks for any attack because our troops are all in Iraq. Have you ever asked your husband how he feels—what about his relatives back home? You ask why it would be hard for a Christian to be married to a man who does not beleive Jesus Christ is God. Well, if they are devout, I believe it would bother most Christians. Of course, it doesn’t bother YOU. You are too, too phony & funny….

I’m right! You had no clue about what your being both a Christian & a Bush cheerleader means to your husband. I guess you’re too busy being Elaine to notice.

You told us you’re Catholic. You said my assumptions are “ignorant”, but you didn’t say why. Now, THAT’S ignorant—just insulting a person with no explanation.. I didn’t say Catholics are green with 2 heads nor that they are not “regular” people, Sue. I said it’s hard for them to think for themselves in that authoritarian atmosphere & that they go to church to be told what to do (& what to think too I might add).

It might have been “busy” for podunk but not “busy” for the big city. On 12/22 at 9:17pm, you said, “Abortion is an elective procedure & unless the pregnancy is an etopic (sic) pregnancy it is not an emergent condition.” Well, if the woman comes in hemorrhaging during the earlier weeks of her pregnancy & her cervix is dilated past the point of being able to hold the baby, which is determined by whether or not a certain size instrument can be easily passed through her cervix by the doctor, then an emergency D&C is required because it’s the only way to stop the bleed. Your attiltude irritates me no end—because it’s unprofessional. You’re spreading anxiety to future patients & bad PR for all medical professionals—for no reason at all but to declare to all how adamant YOU are about YOUR rights—the same rights medical people have always had, as I said for at least the last 25 yrs! Big whooop-de-do Sue—are you wearing your red caped crusader outfit while you write? Nurses & doctors have been able to refuse to perform procedures they do not agree with for at least 25 yrs! Other medical people take over for them—no patient goes without Why are you on here telling people(12/22 6:13pm) “I no longer work ER…but I know nurses & doctors who will leave …their patient care jobs instead of being forced to participate in jprocedures that violate their beliefs. This may very well lead to a shortage…of adequate professionals. This means less MDs & nurses to provide care which impacts patients.” WTF kind of self-serving scare tactics is that? It’s just inexcusable to come on here, identify yourself as a “professional” & say these ridiculous things to the public. Sue, “professional” nurses actually DO care about their patients—& take their obligation to them seriously & would never leave them without the care they need—even if it means getting them to see someone else.

Elective abortions are not done in ED.

ACTING superior is what you love, Elaine. Don’t you just love the noble & righteous feeling you get when you take what a church tells you & use it to hide behind & for permission to run people down in a crass & haughty way. You know Elaine—eventually you will be responsible for what you did in this world to make it better & claiming you did what the church told you will not excuse your rudeness & meaness, & nastiness toward others.. Making abortions illegal does not save babies—it makes poor women suffer. But what you love about it all is standing over others, who you perceive to be less than you, & shaking your finger in their faces—-shame, shame shame! You are a piece of work.