Of course I wish Ms. Culp the best.  I don’t wish her anything but the best.  Just because I am exceedingly uncomfortable with her emotional response to her husband doesn’t mean that I wish this lady any ill, for Pete’s sake!

Look - I’m sorry that you and Ms. Celeste feel that I’m "putting Ms. Cult down."  That is not my intent, whatsoever.  My views are just that:  my views and opinion.  I’m not saying that Ms. Culp is scum of the earth or anything remotely like that (now as for her husband being scum, YES.)  My opinion of her emotional response is not to cast aspersions on her character.  I was being specific about her feelings for her murderous husband.

I’ve read Ms. Celeste’s posts and I read yours carefully, also.  I want you to understand that I don’t come from some perfect background either.  I personally know what abuse is, too.  My response to that crap may be a little different from yours, Ms. Celeste’s, and Ms. Culp’s.  When I was a kid, it was different - you can’t just go.  But as an adult, no frigging way.  To quote Forrest Gump, "I know what love is" - and I know what it isn’t.  When your gut starts talking, you have to start walking.  I ‘divorced’ those who were abusive to me long, long ago.  I don’t love those people, as they never loved me.  My personality simply won’t let me be anyone’s scapegoat or punching bag.  I just … won’t.  I’d rather be alone than with someone who hates me.

I doubt that Ms. Culp knows or will ever know what’s been voiced on this forum.  This is just one website and one forum amongst tens of thousands, at least.  Besides,  I cannot be the only one with the opinion that I’ve expressed here.

But let’s just say, hypothetically, that you, Ms. Celeste, and I somehow became Ms. Culp’s voluntary caretakers.  She would get just as much nurturance from me as she would from you or Ms. Celeste, trust me.  I’m a hell of a caretaker when someone or something needs it.  I would never force my opinion on Ms. Culp herself.  Having said that, however, I don’t believe that I must green-stamp everything my charge thinks or says or does, either.  If the discussion turned towards Ms. Culp’s emotional attachment to her husband and she asked - then yes, at that time she would know what I thought.  It has nothing to do with treating someone with respect and care.  In my opinion, it has to do with being genuine and truthful.

Thanks for your thoughts, Nancy, although we are going to have to ‘agree to disagree.’

Thanks, Mel!

 I like your avatar - it’s a beautiful picture.

~ Sherry

Thank you, Kathleen, for your lovely message.  I really appreciate the thoughts, and am so flattered by your comments about my avatar!

I’d like to think about your question concerning Cheney and McCain for a day or so before I answer, if you don’t mind.  I’m peaking with a bad case of poison ivy (or poison something) right now and not feeling so great.  Besides, I want to give you the most thoughtful answer I can and that will take a bit of time.

 As for your nice comments about my avatar, you made me *LOL* with that!  Taken by a professional?  Uh, no-o-o-o …  I’m kind of photophobic (ask anyone who knows me), and other than official pictures taken when I was in the service - I’ve never had a photograph professional taken, not even graduation or wedding photos.  I’m a drafthorse of a woman, but I can do a horizontal leap to get out of the way of the lens side of a camera!  The picture I use as my avatar is just a "hold-the-camera-at-arms-length-in-front-of-face-and-push-the-button" self-portrait.  I thought it turned out okay, that’s all.  I played with the photo, turning it from color to b&w.

 I will definitely get back to you on that question, I promise.

Take care, Kathleen, and I look forward to ‘speaking’ with you again!

Regards, Sherry

Thank you, countrywoman!

Yup, I am new here - and have already gotten into it with someone.  Maybe even more than one person, I’m not sure.  Amazing.  *LOL*  I wish we could all get along all the time, but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

 Best wishes to you …

My, my, my.

No, I don’t don’t come from a "lofty perch" and yes, I would say what I did in my post to Ms. Culp’s face.  I don’t "hide" behind the internet, and never have.  Why do you think I use my real name and photo?  Actually, I’m one of the few people who would say what I really think to Ms. Culp!  My friends like me for a various reasons, but one of them is that I’m the person who tells them the truth when no one else will.  I certainly don’t expect you to appreciate that quality, but whatever.  It doesn’t bother me.

And no - it’s not all that "clever" to cut and paste and dictionary definition.  (I’m pretty anyone can do it.)

Go ahead and justify Ms. Culp’s emotional attachment to her husband any way you’d like - it’s a "brain injury", or she’s a battered woman (duh), etc. etc.  It’s completely ridiculous to say than I’m "abusing" or "trashing" her because of my opinion.  From her reaction to the question, it seems to me she’s quite aware that it’s bizarre to still love this man.  She knows it’s pathetic.  I’m not going to think of her as stupid or a child simply because she was grievously injured.  If anything is insulting, I think that is.  Nor will I won’t turn Ms. Culp into a saint because she’s a victim.  I certainly wouldn’t want that done to me. 

Don’t assume I don’t understand what brain injuries are, lady.  You have no idea what I’ve seen or done or dealt with in my life - just as I don’t know about yours.

And that’s it.  I won’t reply to you again about this matter.  I don’t think anyone here wants to see a protracted back-&-forth.

I’m sorry, but where are you getting your "intelligence information?"  Are you privy to high-level, eyes-only, top-secret codeword intelligence that 99% of Americans are NOT?  If you are just another average citizen, then please stop tellling people with differing views that they’re wrong.  The fact is they may not know the absolute truth - but neither do you.

Your argument that Bush is somehow to be credited because we haven’t been attacked since 9/11 is specious, at best.  It’s a non-issue.  You cannot prove a negative, but you probably know this.  The Bush administration never detailed exactly what or how many terrorist actions they supposedly thwarted.  You also know how easy it is to get into this country, whether it’s over a porous border or on a container ship.  It doesn’t stinking matter who’s in the White House:  if terrorists want to get to us again, they will.  It’s juvenile and delusional to believe that any official or any entity is going to "keep us safe" from everything.

I would also like to say that it has been well-documented by the military and federal government that information obtained through torture is notoriously unreliable.  We’ve known this for a very long time.  Most prisoners-of-war will say anything they think their captors want to hear when being tortured.  There’s also those pesky little things called the Geneva Conventions to worry about.  Every member of the military takes an oath to abide by those articles, so how we can turn around and then engage in the very things we promised not to do … I don’t know.  There isn’t one word in the Uniform Code of Military Justice that compels military personnel to carry out an illegal order.  And torture should be considered an immoral - and illegal - act.  I would also like to remind you of this:  if the Bush Administration truly believed that torture (by any name) was justified and legal, why then did they practice "rendition" of enemy combatants?  In other words, if these actions were okie-dokie fine, why not practice them on U.S. SOIL?  Why send these people to foreign countries for "enhanced interrogations?"

President Obama is hardly a "puppet."  I’m sure he consults with a lot of people before making important decisions - as any good president would.  I think it’s an admirable quality to listen to others and change course if you think it’s the correct thing to do.

I say all these things as a U.S. Marine Corps veteran who worked in the Signals Intelligence field, someone who lost a couple of friends in the Oklahoma City bombing, and as a citizen who loves this country just as much as those who literally wrap themselves in the flag do (see your avatar.)

P.S.- stop calling people "my dear."  It’s disrespectful, condescending, and insulting.  But I’m sure you know that, too.

 

I agree.

I’m sure there are other people involved in this scam.  Not to underestimate the power of one to commit some truly evil acts, but when it comes to this kind of financial scheme - I just don’t believe that Madoff pulled it off alone.  We’re talking about astronomical (to most people) numbers and lots of complicated maneuvering.  How he could not have accomplices, I don’t know.  I hope they find the bastards and/or bitches and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.  And maybe pass some new ones custom-made just for these particular criminals.

Greed, greed, greed, and wealth to a level 99% of Americans will never know.  Funny how the more you have, the more you want, and the more you will do to get even more.

I hope the feds take every dime, every house, every garbage can he and his wife have acquired over the years.  Of course, I’m sure Madoff and his accomplices have hidden most of the money very well, but at least we know Madoff himself won’t be living the high life anymore.  The authorities need to watch Mrs. Madoff and family like a hawk for the rest of their lives - whether they’re sent to prison or not. 

This is one online dictionary’s definition of "pathetic":  1. causing or evoking pity, sympathetic sadness, sorrow, etc.; pitiful; pitiable: a pathetic letter; a pathetic sight. 2. affecting or moving the feelings. 3. pertaining to or caused by the feelings. 4. miserably or contemptibly inadequate: In return for our investment we get a pathetic three percent interest. As far as I can see, Rosemary, Ms. Culp is pathetic.  I find no definition she doesn’t match.  I think you’re probably going to take issue with definition #4, but IMO she meets that one also.  Ms. Culp has endured about as close a brush with death as anyone, multiple surgeries (30?), permanent disability, and not least of all, the knowlege that her husband tried to blow her head off with a shotgun.  Five years have passed.  And yet … she still "loves him."  I’m not saying she ought to hate this man or shouldn’t have forgiven him - but to still "love him?"  It’s very sad, but that is inadequate (definition #4.)  She’s taken unrequited love to a whole new level.   I quite realize that Ms. Culp needs "lots of time to heal" and I’m sorry if you feel I’m unfairly "judging" her.  Frankly, we all "judge" each other every single day.  That’s the way of the world. Since the odds of Ms. Culp knowing my opinion of her is zero-to-none, I don’t think you can say that I’m "abusing" her.  I’m sure this lady is surrounded by lots of people who validate her feelings - no matter what they are.  She’ll never know what little ol’ me thinks of her, so your point is pretty much moot. And I’m not a Christian or Jewish or Muslem or pagan or Hindi or anything religious.  My husband and I are, in fact, both atheists.  He grew up in a church, but I’ve never been anything other than an atheist.  I am as compassionate as most believers and my loved ones, friends, co-workers, even neighbors, would attest to that fact.  But I cannot feel much compassion for a woman of average intellectual capability who refuses to learn from her hideous experiences.

I really like Elizabeth Edwards, but I have no interest in reading her book - although I don’t begrudge her writing it, either.  I would feel like a voyeur somehow, if I read it.

As for staying with her husband?  That’s entirely between the two of them, and she’s obviously made her part of the decision.  I, for one, will not condemn her for it.  No one knows what truly goes on between the two people in a marriage - no one except for the partners involved.

 

I don’t have much for Carrie Prejean, either.  She seems like a bit of a hypocrite to me.  She’s against the idea of equal rights for gay people and eager to declare herself a "Christian" - yet the very stereotype of a bimbo:  bleached hair, breast implants, bonded Hollywood-white teeth, and that hip swagger!  And you say she wants to be a Victoria’s Secret model?  Oh, ugh.  So gay people who love each other shouldn’t be allowed to marry in Ms. Prejean’s book, but it’s perfectly okay for her to be nothing but a self-promoting symbol of everything "sexy."

 Yeah, I think I’ll take a pass on Ms. Prejean and the whole beauty pageant thing . . .

"Rats are one step higher so I hear."

I have two pet rats, and I think that putting them one level above scum like these <cough, cough> "men" is insulting to rats.  I demand an apology on behalf of all rat-kind!  *LOL*

Thank you, phyllis.  I appreciate it!

All things considered, 2 out of 4 isn’t bad.  *grin*

 One day, when you feel the timing is right and you’re not actively angry at her, you might try an "I" conversation - you know, "Mom, I feel that you don’t respect my opinions or feelings and it hurts me very much."  This approach (as learned over years of therapy) seems to have better results than the "you" conversation:  "You make me so angry because you don’t respect my opinions or feelings."  There’s a small chance that she may be unaware of how much she hurts you and feels that she’s "helping" you.  But I’m a bit of a cynic and I don’t know how she could be completely clueless to your unhappiness.  Most parents aren’t that obtuse.  I may not be able to always discern exactly what my grown son is thinking or feeling, but I can tell when he’s not happy. 

You asked at "what point do you say it is too late ande just let it be."  Here’s the unpleasant fact:  you’re not going to change your mother, and it’s unlikely that she’s going to change herself at her age.  Your best bet, julia, is try to make peace with the idea that you may never have the level of approval (or "respect") that you crave from your mother.  Make the best decisions you can for your own sake and do your best to be satisfied with them.  Try to see the good things in your mother, although it is probably a challenge with the negative vibe she seems to put out.  I’m sure your mother loves you in her own way.  Unfortunately, it’s just not your way.

 Best wishes.