Alice, You friend IS there because heaven is a place in your emotions, your heart—if you will. Heaven is not a physical, geographical place. It is, among other things, memory. Spirit. On earth. Now.

This is a poem I wrote in 1970, which is the most optimistic, natural way of going. Now, in 2008, it still rings true for me. Ground Rules Get down on your hands and knees. Do not pray. Point your voice directly Toward the ground. Now dig. Do not claw. Crumble the clods. Release no sound. Breathe deep. Smell the dirt, but Do not taste. There is another way: Stretch out flat. Do not play dead. Go to sleep. Let the earth be fed.

JA, You know, if we stop thinking about afterlife, we can put all our energy on this one. I am not looking for something “better.” But I respect your view. In a way we all are looking for a comfortable end. Freedom from pain, frustration…but on the other side are joy, creativity, connection, appreciation of the beauties of nature…I say, hang tough, stay in, and live to the fullest exent for today.

Penny, That notion of “I am going to heaven; you are not,” is man-made and kind of gossipy, the tone that separates us. Of course, we are going nowhere, so I agree with you totally and Seneca the Younger that religion can serve a useful purpose if it teaches us to be compassionte to each other during the (er) “living years.” Some people don’t need to hear it to do it; others need to hear it from a higher authority…some men, usually, who made up the rules of behavior.

Hi Theresa, Leonardo da Vinci said: “Just as courage imperils life, fear protects it.” Religion was born of fear. Every culture has invented a religion as a bulwark against death…to soften and protect. That’s fine—it means we are all essentially the same. No religion is better than another. They are all creations of our ever-wondering and wandering minds trying to find respite in final answers. Of course, there are none.

Mary, You might want to read “The God Side of the Brain,” by Matthew Alper. On the back cover, it says” Is the Human Animal “Wired” to Believe in a God?…Is God something that exists “out there” beyond, and independent of us? Or is God merely the product of an inherited perception, the manifestation of an evolutionary adaptation, a coping mechanism that emerged in our species to enable us to survive our unique and otherwise debilitating awareness of death?” These are the key questions that this group might benefit from discussion. As for leaving the planet…well…I think we have to stay in and try to improve it, and get along with each other…not dwelling on this divisive question of afterlife. We need to LIVE in the present one.

Diane, I agree with you but it is LOVE while you are here. That is a kind of earthly “salvation,” although I do not like that word. Kay

You may want to edit Ms. Harte, who appears several times… For me, this is the pivotal question that is linked to our religious beliefs and, thus, one that separates us from each other. It creates a hierarchy—I am going to a better place; you do not believe what I believe, so you are not. Where we go when we die is the underlying question that causes any behavior from harsh words to wars. Here is what I think (not believe) and it is encapsulated in a very short quote. Seneca said: ‘fear begets gods.’ If we are all afraid of dying, then we need to create a belief system as a bulwark against death. Fine…there are many. No one is superior than any other, although the Jesus story is the most compelling because it offers “life everlasting.” I tend to look at a body as a corporeal entity that will die. Our memory or spirit may live on in works we have created, kindnesses offered to other living beings and things, and is then incorporated into some communal spirit. This is not metaphysical. Biblical miracles are metaphorical…Joseph Campbell said and I paraphrase: “I don’t have to have beliefs; I have experience.” I hope this stimulates some conversation.